Re: Book of Igor
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:15 am
We <3 you Mori regardless!
That's where I am. I think it would be nice to have another grown up on the roster, even though I don't expect Patty Bevs to be a top 20 pg this season. But because I think he's a borderline starter now, I don't want to give up much for him.Split T wrote: ↑Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:14 amHe's just more expendable. He's on an expiring contract and is coming off knee surgery. Plus he's 30. I also don't think LA is all that concerned about being good this year.
I just don't subscribe to the idea that because LA is willing to trade him means he's not worth trading for. There's plenty of good reasons LA would want to trade him that aren't because he sucks now.
Still, I'm not giving up a 1st for him. If LA won't take salary and a 2nd, I'd just move on.
Except now they’ve gone much younger with their roster and are going forward with a rebuild. And you must not have watched SGA in summer league. He looked good.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:28 amGuys, I appreciate the slack you're giving me for having a child. But I don't think that should be used to dismiss me out of hand when I offer a basketball take you happen to disagree with.
I said the Clips need a good PG, and that Beverley is older and has multiple leg injuries, and that if he were so great, they probably wouldn't be so eager to give him away. I don't think that is a crazy take. I didn't say they have zero PGs on the roster. I know that they have Teodosic and that they drafted SGA. But SGA is a rookie, and Teodosic has his own flaws. If Beverley were a great PG they would keep him and start him. They might not have drafted SGA if Beverley had worked better for them, either. My point is that they still as recently as this summer have viewed PG as one of their needs and don't think that Beverley is adequately addressing that need. They brought him in to start and be a veteran leader on their roster, and now they're essentially eager to get rid of him. I don't think that speaks well of the guy and his current state as a player. If he were still able to contribute at a high level, they wouldn't be behaving as they are. I think he's probably not the same player any more.
Right. IF we are actually after him (I think it's very likely), and IF we actually get him, he's there to be a steady hand to guide the young PG's and run the offense without getting in the way.
This is exactly the point of my confusion. I've seen a lot of people on this board pining for a starting caliber point guard for the team, but what does that really mean? I asked a bit more in a couple of different threads and it seems like we want our future pg to have good passing skills and offer leadership, and let's say the front office also thinks the same way (just an assumption -- that or I lose all faith in this front office). Then I turn around and look at the list of names we are linked with and see nobody that currently fits those criteria. In this particular case, Beverley seems highly redundant with Shaq and Melton and would stunt growth of Okobo. So why are we giving up an asset to get him? I am just not seeing the light.O_Gardino wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:23 pmI don't think you've got the meat of the issue. None of the guys clearly good enough to help us out are available for what we can give up, and I don't think this front office will find an under rated steal of a player. Anybody like Beverly who we might actually get is going to be at best in the grey area of "maybe we shouldn't pursue this guy" and more likely, "we definitely should't go after him."pickle wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:29 amI agree. Saw rumors that we are after Pat Bev but refuse to give up a first rounder, but have offered second rounders. First off, thank god we are not giving up a first for Beverley. Secondly, this is exactly what I struggle with. I love defensive minded bulldogs who help change the team's identity, but how does Beverley help us with passing and decision making? Does he belong to the category of "making a trade for trading sake" and/or "starting caliber pg who doesn't actually help us"? He would definite stunt both Melton and Okobo without making the others better, unless he's such a good defender that he sets the tone and changes everyone's mentality.
I just can't wrap my head around this pg issue.
Oh, crap, that's a mistake in my post. I meant to say "I think you've got the meat of the issue." There shouldn't be a "don't" in there.pickle wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:31 amThis is exactly the point of my confusion. I've seen a lot of people on this board pining for a starting caliber point guard for the team, but what does that really mean? I asked a bit more in a couple of different threads and it seems like we want our future pg to have good passing skills and offer leadership, and let's say the front office also thinks the same way (just an assumption -- that or I lose all faith in this front office). Then I turn around and look at the list of names we are linked with and see nobody that currently fits those criteria. In this particular case, Beverley seems highly redundant with Shaq and Melton and would stunt growth of Okobo. So why are we giving up an asset to get him? I am just not seeing the light.O_Gardino wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:23 pmI don't think you've got the meat of the issue. None of the guys clearly good enough to help us out are available for what we can give up, and I don't think this front office will find an under rated steal of a player. Anybody like Beverly who we might actually get is going to be at best in the grey area of "maybe we shouldn't pursue this guy" and more likely, "we definitely should't go after him."pickle wrote: ↑Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:29 amI agree. Saw rumors that we are after Pat Bev but refuse to give up a first rounder, but have offered second rounders. First off, thank god we are not giving up a first for Beverley. Secondly, this is exactly what I struggle with. I love defensive minded bulldogs who help change the team's identity, but how does Beverley help us with passing and decision making? Does he belong to the category of "making a trade for trading sake" and/or "starting caliber pg who doesn't actually help us"? He would definite stunt both Melton and Okobo without making the others better, unless he's such a good defender that he sets the tone and changes everyone's mentality.
I just can't wrap my head around this pg issue.
Who, in your opinion, is good enough to help us out?
Last year I actually kind of wanted Rubio.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I don't think you can just jump to showing Pat Beverley's "last healthy season" stats at this point. He's had two leg injuries since then. He may get back to his 2016-17 numbers, but it's a real leap to point to stats from before the injuries and use them to compare against another player's healthy 2017-18 season stats.specialsauce wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:03 pmRicky Rubio last season averaged 6.5 assists to 3.3 TO per 36 on 35% 3P shooting.
Pat Beverly in 16/17 (last healthy season) averaged 4.9 assists to 1.7 TO on 38% shooting in a similar role.
Assuming Beverly is recovering fine from surgery, I don’t see the allure of Rubio in a case where we don’t want a ball dominant PG. Maybe others have a skewed opinion of him because of his appearance.
Of course. I recognize that it all comes with a big assumption with Beverly that he has to be healthy. That’s on the Suns to figure out.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:29 pmI'm not trying to be argumentative, but I don't think you can just jump to showing Pat Beverley's "last healthy season" stats at this point. He's had two leg injuries since then. He may get back to his 2016-17 numbers, but it's a real leap to point to stats from before the injuries and use them to compare against another player's healthy 2017-18 season stats.specialsauce wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:03 pmRicky Rubio last season averaged 6.5 assists to 3.3 TO per 36 on 35% 3P shooting.
Pat Beverly in 16/17 (last healthy season) averaged 4.9 assists to 1.7 TO on 38% shooting in a similar role.
Assuming Beverly is recovering fine from surgery, I don’t see the allure of Rubio in a case where we don’t want a ball dominant PG. Maybe others have a skewed opinion of him because of his appearance.
Link to both players on Basketball Reference:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... ori01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pl ... rpa01.html