Phx-Suns.Net

Why the hell didn’t we play Diallo? What kind of message does that send to your players. Hey I know you had 2 near 20 10 games off the bench but we are going to play the guy who air balls free throws instead.
Our offense in 4th quarters has been looking one dimensional. We just throw up a bunch of semi contested 3s early in the shot clock. We need some looks inside. Post up booker or someone.

Also our defense on dribble penetration is looking awful. Not as bad as last year but we give up way to many open 3s since guys are helping on players like Brunson deep in the paint. Offense just has to make one pass and the shot is there. Too easy

We need to run booker off more screens. He kept trying iso against Hardaway and zingis and it wasn’t really working. Yet we kept doing it.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:19 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:33 am

Let's see how Ayton looks in his second year before we start throwing dirt on him.

Let's. Getting closer. Two weeks of basketball away.

The first “Ayton isn’t quite In game shape”, I’ll be at the front of the line holding my shovel. Dude needs to come out of the gate fast. No more excuses

djy2j wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:17 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:19 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:33 am

Let's see how Ayton looks in his second year before we start throwing dirt on him.

Let's. Getting closer. Two weeks of basketball away.

The first “Ayton isn’t quite In game shape”, I’ll be at the front of the line holding my shovel. Dude needs to come out of the gate fast. No more excuses

This has crossed my mind too. I am afraid his lunges won't be there.

Assigning Rubio to guard Luka is a FIRABLE OFFENSE.

Why is okobo guarding Luka? This is stupid shit.

Because of his lack of athleticism, Luka keeps running into players, but the refs keep bailing him out by not calling the offensive foul. Luka already getting the superstar treatment.

Lol, oubre took out thj with less than 3 min in the 4th

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:52 am

djy2j wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:17 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:19 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:33 am

Let's see how Ayton looks in his second year before we start throwing dirt on him.

Let's. Getting closer. Two weeks of basketball away.

The first “Ayton isn’t quite In game shape”, I’ll be at the front of the line holding my shovel. Dude needs to come out of the gate fast. No more excuses

This has crossed my mind too. I am afraid his lunges won't be there.

Does that count as the first one?

O_Gardino wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:46 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:52 am

djy2j wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:17 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:19 pm

The Bobster wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 11:33 am

Let's see how Ayton looks in his second year before we start throwing dirt on him.

Let's. Getting closer. Two weeks of basketball away.

The first “Ayton isn’t quite In game shape”, I’ll be at the front of the line holding my shovel. Dude needs to come out of the gate fast. No more excuses

This has crossed my mind too. I am afraid his lunges won't be there.

Does that count as the first one?

He can do lunges in his off time. His lungs are a different matter.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:06 pm

Man, I know it gets old, but it would have been a lot of fun watching Booker and Doncic together.

Yup. Doncic was made to be a Sun, a gift from the basketball gods the one and only year we got the #1 draft pick. Unfortunately, we picked the modern day version of Bowie/Jordan, Oden/Durant, who happens to have all of the failings of one Amare Stoudemire. Totally typical Suns move / luck / curse. Meh.

Phoenix219 wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:56 pm

Superbone wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:06 pm

Man, I know it gets old, but it would have been a lot of fun watching Booker and Doncic together.

Yup. Doncic was made to be a Sun, a gift from the basketball gods the one and only year we got the #1 draft pick. Unfortunately, we picked the modern day version of Bowie/Jordan, Oden/Durant, who happens to have all of the failings of one Amare Stoudemire. Totally typical Suns move / luck / curse. Meh.

It clearly looks as if Doncic, health permitting, is going to have a chance to be a top 5 all-time player when it's all said and done. That being said, I wouldn't categorize Ayton with Bowie or Oden yet. He is not injury prone, does contribute quite well when he plays, and has been improving. Heck, we don't know yet what type of jump he's made. Let's at least wait until the New Year and him playing 5-6 games before we make any sweeping declarations about him being in that company.

This whole Luka/Ayton thing is getting ridiculous. Yes we should have picked Luka. No Ayton is not a bust. I know Ayton not playing has made things feel worse, but like In2 said, maybe let’s let Ayton play first before we make any judgements.

I’d also recommend not comparing him to Doncic, unless you just want to be disappointed for his whole time here.

This topic =

LazarusLong wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:46 am

ShelC wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:12 am

Still think the Mavs are overrated. Doncic is a monster, KP can be a matchup problem but doesn't always play hard or dominate. Not a fan of the rest of their role players.

Even with Porzingis having an off night, Mavs won. On the road. And their role players outplayed our role players.

If the Mavs are overrated, what does that say about the Suns?

Sorry just saw this...still think the Mavs are overrated and don't have the talent throughout their roster that we have. Their role players...Brunson, Wright, Powell, DFS, Kleiber, THJ...Kleiber's a decent stretch big, THJ can get hot (which we saw) but usually shit's the bed and/or gets injured. The rest are pretty trash IMO. They hit a few more 3s, got to the line more. In a 7 game series, I don't think they're better even if we don't have Ayton.

Regarding Ayton vs Luka. I don't really care and never really did because we were always taking Ayton. It never seemed to be any great debate where it came down to the final minute of the draft and we "blew it". Wasn't Sarver always taking the "local kid"? I was resigned to the fact that Ayton was our guy and it didn't seem up for discussion.

Luka's a superstar, which we knew (or should've known), whereas Ayton is/should be a really, really good player. He was a 20-10 rookie without even really trying on a piss poor roster with a 1st year coach who was fired after the season. He may not be Shaq or KAT or AD but he can be a force down low for us if we continue building the roster properly and playing the right way.

ShelC wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:00 am

LazarusLong wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 30, 2019 9:46 am

ShelC wrote: ↑

Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:12 am

Still think the Mavs are overrated. Doncic is a monster, KP can be a matchup problem but doesn't always play hard or dominate. Not a fan of the rest of their role players.

Even with Porzingis having an off night, Mavs won. On the road. And their role players outplayed our role players.

If the Mavs are overrated, what does that say about the Suns?

Sorry just saw this...still think the Mavs are overrated and don't have the talent throughout their roster that we have. Their role players...Brunson, Wright, Powell, DFS, Kleiber, THJ...Kleiber's a decent stretch big, THJ can get hot (which we saw) but usually shit's the bed and/or gets injured. The rest are pretty trash IMO. They hit a few more 3s, got to the line more. In a 7 game series, I don't think they're better even if we don't have Ayton.

Regarding Ayton vs Luka. I don't really care and never really did because we were always taking Ayton. It never seemed to be any great debate where it came down to the final minute of the draft and we "blew it". Wasn't Sarver always taking the "local kid"? I was resigned to the fact that Ayton was our guy and it didn't seem up for discussion.

Luka's a superstar, which we knew (or should've known), whereas Ayton is/should be a really, really good player. He was a 20-10 rookie without even really trying on a piss poor roster with a 1st year coach who was fired after the season. He may not be Shaq or KAT or AD but he can be a force down low for us if we continue building the roster properly and playing the right way.

1) The difference between 20/10 and 16/10 is huge. The 20/10 guys last year look to be likely HOF players, while the 15-20/10 guys look to be really good.

2) Doesn't is say a lot that he wasn't really trying?

To me tho, it came down to circumstance last year. Again, no PGs on the roster, no PF to help taking the load off, a 1st year head coach, not a ton of vets to help him along. He wasn't featured in the offense with only 12 shot attempts and was usually out at the 3pt line setting screens and rolling. Igor was using him like Gobert. So I don't think he'll struggle to be a 20-10 guy with better personnel around him, more touches and being put in better scoring positions. The double digits rebounds are more important to me anyway. We had Amar'e and all his scoring but he couldn't grab 10 boards. We need that size and presence in the paint controlling the glass.

Putting up 16-10 without trying can say 2 things - 1) he doesn't really care enough to try but can still be effective and put up numbers; 2) imagine if he tries! But at least we know more or less that that's his baseline. I don't think he's likely to regress under Monty, tho I do agree he probably doesn't have the killer instinct to dominate every minute. He can be better and better may be all we need if the overall team keeps improving.

Ayton has already the numbers to be a superstar. He's not because 1) the suns sucked big time, 2) he lacked fire.

We don't suck anymore so it's up to him.

rhylek wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:35 am

Ayton has already the numbers to be a superstar.

Not if you include opp numbers. Last season, starting centers playing against him averaged basically the same numbers he did. That kinda makes him average.

I of course badly wanted us to draft Luka, but as last season went on, I became content with Ayton over Luka. Ayton was extremely efficient, often shooting 7-9 or 11-14 or other gaudy numbers. Luka scored more and had more highlights, but he seemed out of control and inefficient. And Luka wasn't passing as much as I had thought he would, instead often opting to score himself. I figured that having Luka here would disrupt our offense and might take the ball out of Booker's hands. So Ayton, plus the offseason addition of my bae Rubio, seemed like a better roster construction to me than having Luka here crowding out our star Booker.

But it has been really hard seeing the huge leap Luka has taken this season. Now he's clearly the better player and may even be destined to be an all-time great. Ayton, it's quite unlikely that one will be able to say the same. That stings a lot. We had the #1 pick and could have taken him. We had his Euro coach for Pete's sake. And we pass him up to take a "pretty good" big from the local university. Talk about letting location crowd your thinking. Would any other GM in the league have done that?

ShelC wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:33 am

To me tho, it came down to circumstance last year. Again, no PGs on the roster, no PF to help taking the load off, a 1st year head coach, not a ton of vets to help him along. He wasn't featured in the offense with only 12 shot attempts and was usually out at the 3pt line setting screens and rolling. Igor was using him like Gobert. So I don't think he'll struggle to be a 20-10 guy with better personnel around him, more touches and being put in better scoring positions. The double digits rebounds are more important to me anyway. We had Amar'e and all his scoring but he couldn't grab 10 boards. We need that size and presence in the paint controlling the glass.

Putting up 16-10 without trying can say 2 things - 1) he doesn't really care enough to try but can still be effective and put up numbers; 2) imagine if he tries! But at least we know more or less that that's his baseline. I don't think he's likely to regress under Monty, tho I do agree he probably doesn't have the killer instinct to dominate every minute. He can be better and better may be all we need if the overall team keeps improving.

Having no NBA players around him would make me think his rebounds would go down next to good players, though. I mean, when your competition for rebounds is TJ Warren, Dragan Bender, and Mikal Bridges, you better be getting 10 a game. (BTW, I was surprised to see Mikal in the top 3 minutes at PF for us last year).

I think his FG% should go up (at least his eFG, depending on how many 3s he takes), but I am not sure he gets a ton more shots per game. He was at 14 in the first game (up from 12.3 last year), but that seems to be about right.