Phx-Suns.Net

Basically everyone, myself included, has always said the best thing is for the Suns to match any offer.

The problem will be when Ayton inevitably has the same issues with effort and focus next season and he's making more money than Chris Paul.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:38 pm

Basically everyone, myself included, has always said the best thing is for the Suns to match any offer.

The problem will be when Ayton inevitably has the same issues with effort and focus next season and he's making more money than Chris Paul.

Chris Paul set a great example this postseason in effort and focus.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:50 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:38 pm

Basically everyone, myself included, has always said the best thing is for the Suns to match any offer.

The problem will be when Ayton inevitably has the same issues with effort and focus next season and he's making more money than Chris Paul.

Chris Paul set a great example this postseason in effort and focus.

Yeah, that 14/14 game was pretty convincing. 3rd team All-NBA for a 36 year old isn't bad either.

SunsRIt wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 8:24 pm

ShadowHawke wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 7:50 pm

How good would Ayton be without Chris Paul? How much is his offensive improvement for the last two seasons due to his own development versus benefitting from a point guard who can get him the ball is the most advantageous way possible?

It’s funny you ask that question. Ayton averaged more points and rebounds per game before Chris Paul came to town.

And infinitely more losses.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:59 pm

SunsRIt wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 8:24 pm

ShadowHawke wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 7:50 pm

How good would Ayton be without Chris Paul? How much is his offensive improvement for the last two seasons due to his own development versus benefitting from a point guard who can get him the ball is the most advantageous way possible?

It’s funny you ask that question. Ayton averaged more points and rebounds per game before Chris Paul came to town.

And infinitely more losses.

Okay okay now do Devin Booker

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:52 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:50 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:38 pm

Basically everyone, myself included, has always said the best thing is for the Suns to match any offer.

The problem will be when Ayton inevitably has the same issues with effort and focus next season and he's making more money than Chris Paul.

Chris Paul set a great example this postseason in effort and focus.

Yeah, that 14/14 game was pretty convincing. 3rd team All-NBA for a 36 year old isn't bad either.

j*** too early and called himself a King

If you wanna talk efficiency numbers in the last two postseasons, DA will eat his lunch

So we’re clear, I’m not a huge Ayton fan or DA is #1 or anything. I just think what we’ll get in return is a JOKE. I’m not a Turkoglu/Childress/Warrick fan. And letting him go and the reasoning having anything with CP3 in it is a joke. Man is 38

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 11:16 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:52 pm

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:50 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:38 pm

Basically everyone, myself included, has always said the best thing is for the Suns to match any offer.

The problem will be when Ayton inevitably has the same issues with effort and focus next season and he's making more money than Chris Paul.

Chris Paul set a great example this postseason in effort and focus.

Yeah, that 14/14 game was pretty convincing. 3rd team All-NBA for a 36 year old isn't bad either.

j*** too early and called himself a King

If you wanna talk efficiency numbers in the last two postseasons, DA will eat his lunch

Comparing shooting efficiency between a 7' Center and a 6'1" Guard might be the lowest bar ever.

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:38 pm

Basically everyone, myself included, has always said the best thing is for the Suns to match any offer.

The problem will be when Ayton inevitably has the same issues with effort and focus next season and he's making more money than Chris Paul.

Then what exactly are you suggesting? We trade him midseason and make the team worse instead of trading him now and making the team worse?

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 11:49 pm

Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 10:38 pm

Basically everyone, myself included, has always said the best thing is for the Suns to match any offer.

The problem will be when Ayton inevitably has the same issues with effort and focus next season and he's making more money than Chris Paul.

Then what exactly are you suggesting? We trade him midseason and make the team worse instead of trading him now and making the team worse?

The whole point of matching any offer is to avoid letting him walk for nothing at all, which everyone knows is the worst outcome.

I'm suggesting they replace Ayton with an established star, or at a minimum 2 high level rotation players, who're preferably a wing or big that can create offense. Fill Ayton's position and role with a platoon of guys of varying skill sets. I don't care when the trades happen.

And of course your only two conceivable outcomes of an Ayton trade are "worse" and "worse". You've already said Ayton would be Shaq if he got more "touches".

I’m tired of the Ayton discussion. I just don’t see it with him. I don’t think he’ll ever be an offensive hub type player and I think we have what is probably our best opportunity right now to try and get one of those guys in a trade for him. That’s who I’m most interested in trading him for. Siakam, Towns, LeBron, etc.

Now if those are not doable, which is probably the case, I do think the best thing we can do is just sign him to a max deal and trade him later. Though I do worry about Ayton’s willingness to play the way we want him to once he’s been paid. Especially if he is iffy about staying here long term.

There is another scenario where Ayton is done with us…that’s the scenario where we are essentially forced to try and sign and trade him. If he’s going to sign an offer sheet and ask us not to match, that’s when I am fine S&T him for someone who’s not a star. Turner and 6, WCJ and Anthony, etc. I could still get behind matching and trading him later, but I’d worry about him in the locker room and his play on the court if he’s checked out of here. We’ve all seen how he plays when he’s not engaged and it’s not exactly great.

I've said this previously, he gives off so many Andrew Bynum vibes. There are basketball players and there are guy who play basketball, he's the latter.

How about a swap with Memphis for JJJ?

Superbone wrote: ↑

Wed May 25, 2022 8:59 am

How about a swap with Memphis for JJJ?

He can't stay on the floor and rebounds like a guard. I am not on that dudes hype train either.

JJJ is a foul machine. And unlike Ayton I think he doesn't always play within himself. JJJ has become a solid big but I actually would much rather have Ayton personally.

Hmmm, I’d take JJJ…he has his warts(namely fouling) but he’s the real type of big that can’t be played off the floor. Elite rim protector that can also guard all over the floor. Fouls too much, but he’s improving. Elite shooter for a big…he didn’t shoot well this last year, but he’s good. Memphis wouldn’t do that deal though.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 11:18 pm

So we’re clear, I’m not a huge Ayton fan or DA is #1 or anything. I just think what we’ll get in return is a JOKE. I’m not a Turkoglu/Childress/Warrick fan. And letting him go and the reasoning having anything with CP3 in it is a joke. Man is 38

I think the Amare situation is a good comparison point; there's a lot we can learn from it. In that situation, we let Amare walk, which imo was the RIGHT decision given his questionable health and his desire for a large contract. This turned out to be wise since he had only about 1/2 season of healthy productive play before blowing out his knees for good. But then we followed up our wise decision by wasting Amare's cap space on three awful players (Turkoglu, Warrick, and Childress), all of whom gave us very little useful production and ate up a ton of our cap.

I think most of the DA trades and scenarios I've seen on here give me that same concern. Yes, DA is imperfect and is not necessarily a guy you feel great committing max money to. But a lot of these trade packages are "trade a dollar for 3 quarters" type of deals, where we will get back 2-3 guys with much deeper flaws than Ayton's. And then we'll still be over the cap without a ton of ways to improve the team. Take Ayton off this team and we have no meaningful big men on the roster. I don't think we'd be much better than, say, Atlanta or Portland or any of these other teams with good guards and wings and not much else.

I think the best scenario is, you pay Ayton, keep him going into next season, see how things go. If it isn't working out perfectly, you explore the trade market after December when you can get back full value for him. Some team is still going to want him. These puu-puu platter trades aren't going to go away, if you really want them. And you get to run it back and see whether Ayton continues to grow and progress as a player, you get to see whether the Suns learn and grow from their crushing defeat in this year's playoffs. Maybe the team is firing great on all cylinders and you just ride this core as far as it can take us. Or maybe we take a step back and we look to move Ayton at that point, when like I said the deals available will be just as good as the ones right now if not better because of the lack of BYC garbage in the way.

Me saying I want to re-sign Ayton is not the same as saying I want to absolutely commit to keeping here for the entirety of that max deal no matter what. It doesn't work out, you explore moving the guy. But why trade him for half his value now?

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Wed May 25, 2022 10:50 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 11:18 pm

So we’re clear, I’m not a huge Ayton fan or DA is #1 or anything. I just think what we’ll get in return is a JOKE. I’m not a Turkoglu/Childress/Warrick fan. And letting him go and the reasoning having anything with CP3 in it is a joke. Man is 38

I think the Amare situation is a good comparison point; there's a lot we can learn from it. In that situation, we let Amare walk, which imo was the RIGHT decision given his questionable health and his desire for a large contract. This turned out to be wise since he had only about 1/2 season of healthy productive play before blowing out his knees for good. But then we followed up our wise decision by wasting Amare's cap space on three awful players (Turkoglu, Warrick, and Childress), all of whom gave us very little useful production and ate up a ton of our cap.

I think most of the DA trades and scenarios I've seen on here give me that same concern. Yes, DA is imperfect and is not necessarily a guy you feel great committing max money to. But a lot of these trade packages are "trade a dollar for 3 quarters" type of deals, where we will get back 2-3 guys with much deeper flaws than Ayton's. And then we'll still be over the cap without a ton of ways to improve the team. Take Ayton off this team and we have no meaningful big men on the roster. I don't think we'd be much better than, say, Atlanta or Portland or any of these other teams with good guards and wings and not much else.

I think the best scenario is, you pay Ayton, keep him going into next season, see how things go. If it isn't working out perfectly, you explore the trade market after December when you can get back full value for him. Some team is still going to want him. These puu-puu platter trades aren't going to go away, if you really want them. And you get to run it back and see whether Ayton continues to grow and progress as a player, you get to see whether the Suns learn and grow from their crushing defeat in this year's playoffs. Maybe the team is firing great on all cylinders and you just ride this core as far as it can take us. Or maybe we take a step back and we look to move Ayton at that point, when like I said the deals available will be just as good as the ones right now if not better because of the lack of BYC garbage in the way.

Me saying I want to re-sign Ayton is not the same as saying I want to absolutely commit to keeping here for the entirety of that max deal no matter what. It doesn't work out, you explore moving the guy. But why trade him for half his value now?

So you don't waste another season when your 2nd best player is 37?

If he really did quit on the team and there is more to the story of him needing so much hand holding, do you bring that energy back?

I mean the most defining moment of last year's Finals was that speech Monty gave to Ayton when he was having a shitty game and Monty had to keep telling him to get out there and impact the game. Sure it was a great moment to see what kind of motivator Monty can be. But it was also a very clear picture of a guy needing that type of speech to just pick up his head and play basketball.

Indy wrote: ↑

Wed May 25, 2022 12:05 pm

Mori Chu wrote: ↑

Wed May 25, 2022 10:50 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 11:18 pm

So we’re clear, I’m not a huge Ayton fan or DA is #1 or anything. I just think what we’ll get in return is a JOKE. I’m not a Turkoglu/Childress/Warrick fan. And letting him go and the reasoning having anything with CP3 in it is a joke. Man is 38

I think the Amare situation is a good comparison point; there's a lot we can learn from it. In that situation, we let Amare walk, which imo was the RIGHT decision given his questionable health and his desire for a large contract. This turned out to be wise since he had only about 1/2 season of healthy productive play before blowing out his knees for good. But then we followed up our wise decision by wasting Amare's cap space on three awful players (Turkoglu, Warrick, and Childress), all of whom gave us very little useful production and ate up a ton of our cap.

I think most of the DA trades and scenarios I've seen on here give me that same concern. Yes, DA is imperfect and is not necessarily a guy you feel great committing max money to. But a lot of these trade packages are "trade a dollar for 3 quarters" type of deals, where we will get back 2-3 guys with much deeper flaws than Ayton's. And then we'll still be over the cap without a ton of ways to improve the team. Take Ayton off this team and we have no meaningful big men on the roster. I don't think we'd be much better than, say, Atlanta or Portland or any of these other teams with good guards and wings and not much else.

I think the best scenario is, you pay Ayton, keep him going into next season, see how things go. If it isn't working out perfectly, you explore the trade market after December when you can get back full value for him. Some team is still going to want him. These puu-puu platter trades aren't going to go away, if you really want them. And you get to run it back and see whether Ayton continues to grow and progress as a player, you get to see whether the Suns learn and grow from their crushing defeat in this year's playoffs. Maybe the team is firing great on all cylinders and you just ride this core as far as it can take us. Or maybe we take a step back and we look to move Ayton at that point, when like I said the deals available will be just as good as the ones right now if not better because of the lack of BYC garbage in the way.

Me saying I want to re-sign Ayton is not the same as saying I want to absolutely commit to keeping here for the entirety of that max deal no matter what. It doesn't work out, you explore moving the guy. But why trade him for half his value now?

So you don't waste another season when your 2nd best player is 37?

If he really did quit on the team and there is more to the story of him needing so much hand holding, do you bring that energy back?

I mean the most defining moment of last year's Finals was that speech Monty gave to Ayton when he was having a shitty game and Monty had to keep telling him to get out there and impact the game. Sure it was a great moment to see what kind of motivator Monty can be. But it was also a very clear picture of a guy needing that type of speech to just pick up his head and play basketball.

You don't have to worry about that. He wasn't even our 2nd best player in the 2022 postseason. No way will he be our 2nd best next season.

You’re right, he was probably our best player…unless you’re not counting the Pels series