Suns 2022 Off-Season Thread

[JeremyG]

You would turn down Luka? Tatum? Ja?

I can't stand Luka. I wouldn't trade anyone for him.

Ja Morant? His team is better when he doesn't play.

Trading Ayton for Tatum may not be a horrible trade, I just personally wouldn't do it. I would prefer a big man in return. I would take Embiid if I could know he would stay healthy.

I'm coming from a position of thinking that Ayton is totally worth the money he will make, and I see no reason to move him.

You agree that Ayton has weaknesses, right? What do you see as his weaknesses? What do you envision from him three years from now? Do you think he will be worth the Super Max by his next contract after this next one?

I think Bobster did a good job summarizing. I would add that he doesn't always close out as tight as he could or contest as well as he could when he's guarding a three point shooter, even though he clearly has the length.

I think he will be worth the Super Max if he becomes eligible for it (DPOY, MVP, or All-NBA). Three years from now he should be a consistent All-Star (he'll make an All-Star team next season if the Suns get rid of him). His injury this season is the only thing that shut off the All-Star talk for him in January. If he's on a team that will utilize him offensively, he will average well over 20 ppg.

You really don't think he can make the all-star team if he remains on the Suns? As in the Suns are holding him back? You don't think he can make another step in the right direction under Williams? Hasn't he improved each season?

I’m not saying he can’t, just that he definitely will if they let him go. Like I said, if he hadn’t gotten injured at just the wrong time this season, he may have made it this year.

[JeremyG]

I love all these "Ayton is garbage but we can trade him for a star" scenarios.

Personally, there's only one player in the NBA that I would trade Ayton for.

NOBODY IS SAYING AYTON IS GARBAGE! ALMOST EVERYONE HERE AGREES HE IS A TOP 5 CENTER IN THE LEAGUE!

So, like Dave King was saying, he's somewhere around the 30s in overall NBA rankings, but you don't want to pay him the 35th highest salary? And everyone wonders why he feels disrespected?

He is not in the 30s for overall ranking. That would mean that if you did a re-draft for the entire league, some GM would seriously consider taking him as their 1st pick, and nearly every GM would take him as their 2nd. He isn't close to that on his current contract, much less as a ~30-35M/year player.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/322 ... 1-22-50-26

https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/i ... yers-2022/

[The Bobster]

Do you think he is a top 20 player in the league? Top 40? Top 50?

Right now? Probably top 30. He's at the cusp of being an All-Star, albeit a borderline one.

[The Bobster]

I love all these "Ayton is garbage but we can trade him for a star" scenarios.

Personally, there's only one player in the NBA that I would trade Ayton for.

NOBODY IS SAYING AYTON IS GARBAGE! ALMOST EVERYONE HERE AGREES HE IS A TOP 5 CENTER IN THE LEAGUE!

So, like Dave King was saying, he's somewhere around the 30s in overall NBA rankings, but you don't want to pay him the 35th highest salary? And everyone wonders why he feels disrespected?

He is not in the 30s for overall ranking. That would mean that if you did a re-draft for the entire league, some GM would seriously consider taking him as their 1st pick, and nearly every GM would take him as their 2nd. He isn't close to that on his current contract, much less as a ~30-35M/year player.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/322 ... 1-22-50-26

https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/i ... yers-2022/

But you're not playing him for what he did last season or the year before, you're paying him for what you expect to get from him for the four or five years.

And a $35 million contract won't make us blink in three or four years because the NBA is looking to triple their television money in 2025.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mortenjens ... df08443e85

[Uncle_Gene]

Ayton is NOT garbage, just not a max player. I remember James Jones saying on the arizona sports website that the disagreement with Ayton's representatives was over the amount of years, not the money. Who knows how true that is. I'd love to see him stay, but I think he's gone.

[Superbone]

Do you think he is a top 20 player in the league? Top 40? Top 50?

Right now? Probably top 30. He's at the cusp of being an All-Star, albeit a borderline one.

I don't see that. There are 30 teams in the league. Unless you think he's ahead of Booker, that means you put him ahead of many of the top players if you were to take them from every team. I could see a few teams where he might be considered better than every player on it. Like maybe Sacramento or the Spurs. Lakers, no. Warriors, no. Clippers, no. Grizzlies, no. Mavericks, no. Pelicans, no. Rockets, yes. Jazz, no. Nuggets, no. Wolves, no. Blazers, no. OKC, maybe. And that's just the West. No way is he top 30.

[Superbone]

NOBODY IS SAYING AYTON IS GARBAGE! ALMOST EVERYONE HERE AGREES HE IS A TOP 5 CENTER IN THE LEAGUE!

So, like Dave King was saying, he's somewhere around the 30s in overall NBA rankings, but you don't want to pay him the 35th highest salary? And everyone wonders why he feels disrespected?

He is not in the 30s for overall ranking. That would mean that if you did a re-draft for the entire league, some GM would seriously consider taking him as their 1st pick, and nearly every GM would take him as their 2nd. He isn't close to that on his current contract, much less as a ~30-35M/year player.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/322 ... 1-22-50-26

https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/i ... yers-2022/

But you're not playing him for what he did last season or the year before, you're paying him for what you expect to get from him for the four or five years.

And a $35 million contract won't make us blink in three or four years because the NBA is looking to triple their television money in 2025.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mortenjens ... df08443e85

I hope you're right. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Superbone]

Ayton is NOT garbage, just not a max player. I remember James Jones saying on the arizona sports website that the disagreement with Ayton's representatives was over the amount of years, not the money. Who knows how true that is. I'd love to see him stay, but I think he's gone.

Exactly this for me other than the thinking he's gone part. I don't know.

[Flagrant Fowl]

We've talked about the new TV deal in 2025-26 already. I'm skeptical the cap will jump significantly in the '25-'26 season because there will be a lot of owners trying to prevent a repeat of what happened last time with KD going to the Warriors.

Even if it does jump a lot, it will be the fourth season of Ayton's next deal, so I think he'll be overpaid for 3/4 of the contract years.

Somewhat related, how much will stuff like inflation and global economic crisis affect the next TV deal? What if the revenue projections for the next few years aren't realized? We just went through a seemingly unimaginable pandemic and work stoppage, so isn't it at least a little risky to assume a massive revenue boost in 4 years when offering contracts in the next couple of seasons?

[virtual9mm]

Ayton is NOT garbage, just not a max player. I remember James Jones saying on the arizona sports website that the disagreement with Ayton's representatives was over the amount of years, not the money. Who knows how true that is. I'd love to see him stay, but I think he's gone.

Exactly this for me other than the thinking he's gone part. I don't know.

Not sure if it is posturing or not but I would rather pay him than lose him, I would also rather keep him over Cam Johnson. Would live to keep starting lineup and substitute Durant or Lebron into PF slot if at all possible.

[ShelC]

Ayton is NOT garbage, just not a max player. I remember James Jones saying on the arizona sports website that the disagreement with Ayton's representatives was over the amount of years, not the money. Who knows how true that is. I'd love to see him stay, but I think he's gone.

The way the season ended, it seems like he's outta here. But maybe after a few weeks, things have settled down and everyone can re-evaluate. Maybe Monty is looking back and seeing we didn't utilize DA as much as we could've against the Mavs. Maybe he was too rigid sticking to the system and playing thru the guards instead of making the adjustment to play more thru DA and punish the Mavs' lack of size. DA stepped up against the Pels when Book was out. He was great in that series when we needed him to be so I understand the frustration he had by the end of the Mavs series.

I'll also say this - DA yelling to Monty on the bench obviously wasn't a good look. You can chalk it up to immaturity or DA thinking he's better than he is, etc. But looking at it thru a different lens, as much shit as I and some others have given DA about being soft or passive at times, the fact that he was so frustrated about not getting the ball that he let it out on the bench at least showed some fire and want. I'd rather have a guy pissed about not being able to do more and calling for the ball than a guy not caring. Guys like Bynum and Eddy Curry never really cared. So at least there's that.

[ShelC]

The Sankofa article is behind a paywall so can't see the details. The Pistons make a ton of sense for obvious reasons and if we're forced to make some kind of deal, the Pistons have the assets to send back. I'm not a huge fan of Grant, but he'd fill a need and I think Monty is pretty high on him. I'd love Stewart back as well as a high energy, defensive, small ball 4/5 with a solid offensive game. Grant, Stewart and the 5th pick would be a great package back, but might be too steep for Detroit?

[Split T]

Ya I think it might be too steep. We also can’t take that much salary back so we’d have to include another contract. I’m not as excited about Detroit as some of the other options out there. #5 would be fun, but we’d just be getting whatever Detroit took as the trade would happen after the draft.

[Split T]

I would jump all over this if this was true, can’t imagine Charlotte coming close to offering that though

[JeremyG]

I don't want Isaiah Stewart anywhere near this team.

[JeremyG]

We've talked about the new TV deal in 2025-26 already. I'm skeptical the cap will jump significantly in the '25-'26 season because there will be a lot of owners trying to prevent a repeat of what happened last time with KD going to the Warriors.

Even if it does jump a lot, it will be the fourth season of Ayton's next deal, so I think he'll be overpaid for 3/4 of the contract years.

We can lock him up for 5 years if we want.

[The Bobster]

A four year deal signed with another team would probably have an opt out clause after the third year, so they would likely be "on the hook" for only three years.

[JeremyG]

I would jump all over this if this was true, can’t imagine Charlotte coming close to offering that though

How are three first rounders going to help us win a championship next season?

[Split T]

I would jump all over this if this was true, can’t imagine Charlotte coming close to offering that though

How are three first rounders going to help us win a championship next season?

You package them in a trade for immediate help…but forget about the picks. Bridges and Washington will do more towards a championship than Ayton…I know you won’t agree, but that plus 3 picks which sets us up to snag a superstar is an absolute no-brainer.

[Indy]

I would jump all over this if this was true, can’t imagine Charlotte coming close to offering that though

How are three first rounders going to help us win a championship next season?

You package them in a trade for immediate help…but forget about the picks. Bridges and Washington will do more towards a championship than Ayton…I know you won’t agree, but that plus 3 picks which sets us up to snag a superstar is an absolute no-brainer.

Agreed