Phx-Suns.Net

Shabazz wrote:

https://twitter.com/esidery/status/972630347857842179

That's really surprising to me, because I think we look like a better team with him out there running the point rather than Ulis or Shaq or even when Booker is running the point....

I think that stat is misleading, and it's a good example of how +/- is a bad stat. There's too much other noise in any +/- stat to make it useful, such as: who else was in the game for the Suns while that player was out there? Who were the opponents? Were they starters, the team's best? Or bench players?

Garbage nerd stat

Plus minus starts to make more sense the more players that are involved. I think it can show a few things when you look at lineups as a whole, but individual player plus minus numbers just have way too many variables to make any conclusions.

That +/- is probably due to the Suns in general getting blown out by the other team, and Payton, as a starter, being on the court for most of that onslaught.

With that said, Payton really isn't good. He's a stat-stuffer, but the Suns would be wise to move on in the offseason. But I just know Ryan already has a big fat 4-yr deal waiting for Payton.

INFORMER wrote:That +/- is probably due to the Suns in general getting blown out by the other team, and Payton, as a starter, being on the court for most of that onslaught.

With that said, Payton really isn't good. He's a stat-stuffer, but the Suns would be wise to move on in the offseason. But I just know Ryan already has a big fat 4-yr deal waiting for Payton.

I'm kinda leaning this way too. I was intrigued when we traded for him and he does have some nice qualities, but he lacks in the two qualities I think are most important next to Booker. Shooting and Defense.

Split T wrote:

INFORMER wrote:That +/- is probably due to the Suns in general getting blown out by the other team, and Payton, as a starter, being on the court for most of that onslaught.

With that said, Payton really isn't good. He's a stat-stuffer, but the Suns would be wise to move on in the offseason. But I just know Ryan already has a big fat 4-yr deal waiting for Payton.

I'm kinda leaning this way too. I was intrigued when we traded for him and he does have some nice qualities, but he lacks in the two qualities I think are most important next to Booker. Shooting and Defense.

Agreed. Want to be back? Take backup money and lead a second unit with shooters and defenders. Otherwise, not interested.

Split T wrote:

INFORMER wrote:That +/- is probably due to the Suns in general getting blown out by the other team, and Payton, as a starter, being on the court for most of that onslaught.

With that said, Payton really isn't good. He's a stat-stuffer, but the Suns would be wise to move on in the offseason. But I just know Ryan already has a big fat 4-yr deal waiting for Payton.

I'm kinda leaning this way too. I was intrigued when we traded for him and he does have some nice qualities, but he lacks in the two qualities I think are most important next to Booker. Shooting and Defense.

I'd have been happy if he just defended to go along with his distribution. We never seem to get a PG that doesn't have a glaring weakness.

As others have said, Payton's Total +/- is bad because he in on the court for the most Total minutes vs the other team's starters.

Is he worth bringing back? Depends on the deal and our other options. We need to upgrade from him, but I would consider bringing him back on a short contract if I can't find a replacement this summer. I wonder if we could trick NOP into wanting him...

Payton could just be a guy who's not a winning player. The stats are flashy but he's never been part of a winning team. That's not all his fault obviously, and the +/- stat is flawed, but I do think there's something to all of this.

No sense offering a cheap deal and trying to get him to sign on as a backup. He's been a starter in the league, he sees himself that way and has the talent. If we're not committed to him longterm, let him walk or play out his RFA.

I just want to point out that Payton is also last on our current roster in +/- per 100, at -17.6 (our best rotation player is Alex Len at -7.4)...

BUT

That's just the current roster. The worst guy on the season as a whole is Eric Bledsoe at -39.1.

This team needed a legitimate pg there before the trade deadline and he has been a nice addition in that sense. Unfortunately, he hasn't solved that position. I don't think he's all that good. He's not a defender or outside shooter. I haven't seen him make winning plays, but he hasn't been rage inducing like Knight was either.

Yeah, I prefer him a ton over what we had in Bledsoe but he has 2 glaring weaknesses that are not a good look for our starting PG. I have no proof but I think he could be a much better shooter if he would just cut that damn hair!

I know a bunch of people are down on Trae Young, but I think he would be awfully fun next to Booker and Jackson. At least he can shoot and pass. I'm still holding out hope for multiple difference makers in this draft. Young would be one, and then another is a question mark.

I think Trae will be there, but I'd pass. I think he might drop closer to 10. Orlando and Cleveland seem like the teams that might take him top 7. Or maybe he gets hot in the tournament and bumps his stock back up again. Trae on Philly with the LA pick could be real fun!

Split T wrote:I think Trae will be there, but I'd pass. I think he might drop closer to 10. Orlando and Cleveland seem like the teams that might take him top 7. Or maybe he gets hot in the tournament and bumps his stock back up again. Trae on Philly with the LA pick could be real fun!

Adding to the thought: Draft Trae, sign Lebron, resign reddick

Simmons - Reddick - Covington - Lebron - Embiid

With Trae - Fultz - Saric off the bench


That's a scary team and a fun team to fight the rockets/warriors winner