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Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:54 am

Gotta know when to hold them and know when to fold them

lol

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:04 am

It’s less than. 50:50. Name a player that FOUND a motor.

He makes me think Tim Thomas honestly and I think we need to get rid of him at this point but still not a 100% but it may be because I was a Homer wanting him instead of Luca, Trae and Triple J.

Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:54 am

Gotta know when to hold them and know when to fold them

Something Ryan really struggled with.

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:04 am

It’s less than. 50:50. Name a player that FOUND a motor.

Joe Johnson really struggled with the wallflower thing. It wasn't until 2/3 into his 3rd year that he finally started trying to impose his will on the game.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:27 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:04 am

It’s less than. 50:50. Name a player that FOUND a motor.

Joe Johnson really struggled with the wallflower thing. It wasn't until 2/3 into his 3rd year that he finally started trying to impose his will on the game.

No call for a broken orbital will do that to you.

That was in year 4.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:48 am

It's all a gamble. Ayton could wake up and all of a sudden become the guy we saw for the 4-game stretch this season and that 7(?)-game stretch last season. Or he could continue to be a wallflower, post decent stats, and be a low-motor role-playing big. It's probably 50/50 at this point.

That's the thing that makes it tough, right? He's shown flashes of what he can be. We just haven't had any consistency. He's got the Kandi man's motor. I agree with Saucy that the likelihood of that changing over time is slim.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:24 am

Charlie Smithy! wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:54 am

Gotta know when to hold them and know when to fold them

Something Ryan really struggled with.

Don't get me started on him and Bledsoe...

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:27 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:04 am

It’s less than. 50:50. Name a player that FOUND a motor.

Joe Johnson really struggled with the wallflower thing. It wasn't until 2/3 into his 3rd year that he finally started trying to impose his will on the game.

Cool. That's one. Dennis Rodman? I'm not sure if he got more aggressive or just went to crazy town at his transition point.

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:43 am

That was in year 4.

Probably right my bad. Not the best memory but I do remember him being quiet. Met him with Marbury still here Joe was really nice guy.

Superbone wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:48 am

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:27 am

specialsauce wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:04 am

It’s less than. 50:50. Name a player that FOUND a motor.

Joe Johnson really struggled with the wallflower thing. It wasn't until 2/3 into his 3rd year that he finally started trying to impose his will on the game.

Cool. That's one. Dennis Rodman? I'm not sure if he got more aggressive or just went to crazy town at his transition point.

JJ never half-assed it. He wasn’t polished but he gave great effort. Difference between being young and lazy.

Name a player that would frequently jog up and down the court obviously dogging it, then suddenly became a high motor guy.

I think there are plenty of guys that do that. But it usually takes them washing out of the league and having to go to Europe for a while. PJ Tucker is one Suns example. Washed out at 21. Played 5 years bouncing around Europe, and came back to the league and is known for not taking plays off and punching above his playing weight.

Indy wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:19 pm

I think there are plenty of guys that do that. But it usually takes them washing out of the league and having to go to Europe for a while. PJ Tucker is one Suns example. Washed out at 21. Played 5 years bouncing around Europe, and came back to the league and is known for not taking plays off and punching above his playing weight.

PJ wasn’t branded as a lazy player, he just wasn’t very good.

Here is an excerpt from his scouting report at draft express:

Tucker is essentially the prototype for what most coaches look for in a player. He is fundamentally sound, tough as nails, and incredibly hard-working; always giving everything he has out on the floor, showing superb confidence in himself, but usually playing strictly up to his strengths. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/PJ-Tucker-578/ ©DraftExpress

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:48 am

It's all a gamble. Ayton could wake up and all of a sudden become the guy we saw for the 4-game stretch this season and that 7(?)-game stretch last season. Or he could continue to be a wallflower, post decent stats, and be a low-motor role-playing big. It's probably 50/50 at this point.

Sounds about right to me. He hasn't earned a big contract but it's still too early to give up on him.

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:48 am

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:48 am

It's all a gamble. Ayton could wake up and all of a sudden become the guy we saw for the 4-game stretch this season and that 7(?)-game stretch last season. Or he could continue to be a wallflower, post decent stats, and be a low-motor role-playing big. It's probably 50/50 at this point.

Sounds about right to me. He hasn't earned a big contract but it's still too early to give up on him.

Do you think he will demand a big contract? I think that question should be part of the variable here.

BAMF wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:03 am

virtual9mm wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:48 am

INFORMER wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:48 am

It's all a gamble. Ayton could wake up and all of a sudden become the guy we saw for the 4-game stretch this season and that 7(?)-game stretch last season. Or he could continue to be a wallflower, post decent stats, and be a low-motor role-playing big. It's probably 50/50 at this point.

Sounds about right to me. He hasn't earned a big contract but it's still too early to give up on him.

Do you think he will demand a big contract? I think that question should be part of the variable here.

To me that is the biggest variable. I am not saying we should dump him. I am saying that if we know he will be demanding/pushing hard for a 25-30M/year extension, we should be looking at other options.

If he knows we are not willing to pay that, but he wants to be here and can work out something smaller, then I am all for continuing to work with him.

Ya that’s a good point. And it’s becoming more and more obvious he’s not a max guy. He may want to stay and take a smaller deal. That opens up options.

But James Jones needs to know at what price are you happy to lose him for nothing. That it the key on his end. And the problem of waiting until you are put in that position, is that you are willing to pay more than you want because you have to add the cost of losing him for nothing. That is why you need to be talking to his agent now.

Indy wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:15 am

But James Jones needs to know at what price are you happy to lose him for nothing. That it the key on his end. And the problem of waiting until you are put in that position, is that you are willing to pay more than you want because you have to add the cost of losing him for nothing. That is why you need to be talking to his agent now.

100% agree. For the record, signing him to an extension wouldn’t stop me from trying to trade him. He’d have more trade value if locked into a reasonable deal. But it does lessen the need to trade him. If he’s max or bust, we’ve got to move him before restricted free agency.