But now, with a looming Oct. 18 deadline for rookie extensions, sources said the talks between the Suns and Ayton's representatives have been slowed by ownership's current assertion that Ayton doesn't deserve to be included in that group of players -- and a belief by the 7-footer that his performance, his potential and the marketplace dictate that he does.
1. He "doesn't deserve to be included in that group of players"?! A group that includes SGA and freaking Michael Porter Jr.?!?! That assertion is completely absurd on the face of it.
2. It says "ownership's current assertion." It doesn't say management. This is totally Robert Sarver. But James Jones should threaten to resign if he won't let him offer the max. He is complicit in this disgusting behavior.
1. There’s clearly a gap amongst the rookies. Luka and Trae are deserving of the supermax. I’d say SGA, Ayton, and MPJ are all a tier below. There’s not really a threat for SGA or MPJ to qualify for the supermax, so the fact they got those clauses doesn’t really mean much to me. It would take major leaps for them to make all-nba. And they’d actually be worthy of those contracts if they made those leaps. Ayton is different, he’s a C and has significantly less competition for All-NBA. There’s a very real scenario where he makes All-NBA and doesn’t actually make any leaps. He plays like he did in the playoffs and he’s probably 3rd team over Rudy.
2. This is just Ayton’s camp leaking stuff. You can’t take it as perfectly accurate. It’s all skewed info. We don’t know what the suns are offering.
I really don’t have a problem with not giving him the max yet. After his playoff performance I figured it was coming and had definitely come around on giving it to him, but I don’t think it’s harmful to make him wait until after this season to prove he’s a max guy.
Have you never heard of Joe Johnson? Sarver never learns.
The situations aren’t the same. I’m not saying don’t give him the max. Just that we don’t have to commit to it yet. And I’m pretty sure we have offered a version of the max, just not the full max with escalator clauses.
I'm pretty sure we have offered no version of a max.
"We don’t have to commit to it yet"--that's what they said about Joe.
What makes you so sure? You just want to be upset about it.
Joe Johnson was 15+ years ago…I don’t care about Joe Johnson.
For those that just want us to max him and be over with it, you mean the full 5 year max with escalations? Please tell me how paying Ayton 40 million a year is a good idea. And don’t use the argument that someone will pay him that and it’s the going rate. We are the only team that can pay him that.
We're already eschewing the exceptions at our disposal in favor of minimum contracts. What else can he do?
If he starts attaching draft picks to productive players again, I think I'm out.
Nobody is saying he will make good decisions or even decisions that end up saving money in the long-run. He is short-sighted and makes stupid decisions when he thinks he can save some money. I just think finding a way to make him think he got a win here would maybe save some stupid cost-cutting later. Hearing "Ayton signed a $210M contract with the Suns" when he is the 3rd or 4th best player on the team probably scares the shit out of him.
That's also a function of having a really good team - it means you have a lot of really good players and those players will be expensive. If Ayton was the second best player and we won 32 games, would he feel better about it?
He might. Who knows. The guy is an idiot when it comes to basketball.
But now, with a looming Oct. 18 deadline for rookie extensions, sources said the talks between the Suns and Ayton's representatives have been slowed by ownership's current assertion that Ayton doesn't deserve to be included in that group of players -- and a belief by the 7-footer that his performance, his potential and the marketplace dictate that he does.
1. He "doesn't deserve to be included in that group of players"?! A group that includes SGA and freaking Michael Porter Jr.?!?! That assertion is completely absurd on the face of it.
2. It says "ownership's current assertion." It doesn't say management. This is totally Robert Sarver. But James Jones should threaten to resign if he won't let him offer the max. He is complicit in this disgusting behavior.
1. There’s clearly a gap amongst the rookies. Luka and Trae are deserving of the supermax. I’d say SGA, Ayton, and MPJ are all a tier below. There’s not really a threat for SGA or MPJ to qualify for the supermax, so the fact they got those clauses doesn’t really mean much to me. It would take major leaps for them to make all-nba. And they’d actually be worthy of those contracts if they made those leaps. Ayton is different, he’s a C and has significantly less competition for All-NBA. There’s a very real scenario where he makes All-NBA and doesn’t actually make any leaps. He plays like he did in the playoffs and he’s probably 3rd team over Rudy.
2. This is just Ayton’s camp leaking stuff. You can’t take it as perfectly accurate. It’s all skewed info. We don’t know what the suns are offering.
I agree with everything in this post, but this part in particular. It really doesn't matter MPJ got those clauses included to the Nuggets. But it does help MPJ's agent say he got a +200M deal. It is posturing. It wouldn't be that with Ayton. And he isn't a top 10 player in this league, and those are the only guys that should be getting a $40M/year salary.
But now, with a looming Oct. 18 deadline for rookie extensions, sources said the talks between the Suns and Ayton's representatives have been slowed by ownership's current assertion that Ayton doesn't deserve to be included in that group of players -- and a belief by the 7-footer that his performance, his potential and the marketplace dictate that he does.
1. He "doesn't deserve to be included in that group of players"?! A group that includes SGA and freaking Michael Porter Jr.?!?! That assertion is completely absurd on the face of it.
2. It says "ownership's current assertion." It doesn't say management. This is totally Robert Sarver. But James Jones should threaten to resign if he won't let him offer the max. He is complicit in this disgusting behavior.
1. There’s clearly a gap amongst the rookies. Luka and Trae are deserving of the supermax. I’d say SGA, Ayton, and MPJ are all a tier below. There’s not really a threat for SGA or MPJ to qualify for the supermax, so the fact they got those clauses doesn’t really mean much to me. It would take major leaps for them to make all-nba. And they’d actually be worthy of those contracts if they made those leaps. Ayton is different, he’s a C and has significantly less competition for All-NBA. There’s a very real scenario where he makes All-NBA and doesn’t actually make any leaps. He plays like he did in the playoffs and he’s probably 3rd team over Rudy.
2. This is just Ayton’s camp leaking stuff. You can’t take it as perfectly accurate. It’s all skewed info. We don’t know what the suns are offering.
1. If Ayton plays like he did in the playoffs and makes All-NBA, he deserves the supermax.
2. Woj may not like Sarver, but he still has to be accurate. If the Suns are offering Ayton a non-supermax max, then Woj would likely say that. Also, Gambo likely would have received that info from the Suns by now.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
I really don’t have a problem with not giving him the max yet. After his playoff performance I figured it was coming and had definitely come around on giving it to him, but I don’t think it’s harmful to make him wait until after this season to prove he’s a max guy.
Have you never heard of Joe Johnson? Sarver never learns.
The situations aren’t the same. I’m not saying don’t give him the max. Just that we don’t have to commit to it yet. And I’m pretty sure we have offered a version of the max, just not the full max with escalator clauses.
I'm pretty sure we have offered no version of a max.
"We don’t have to commit to it yet"--that's what they said about Joe.
What makes you so sure? You just want to be upset about it.
Joe Johnson was 15+ years ago…I don’t care about Joe Johnson.
If anything, the Joe Johnson lesson is even more relevant today, when players are able to force trades even when their contract is not up. If Ayton is not happy, he can very easily force the Suns to not match an RFA offer sheet or to do a sign-and-trade.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
But now, with a looming Oct. 18 deadline for rookie extensions, sources said the talks between the Suns and Ayton's representatives have been slowed by ownership's current assertion that Ayton doesn't deserve to be included in that group of players -- and a belief by the 7-footer that his performance, his potential and the marketplace dictate that he does.
1. He "doesn't deserve to be included in that group of players"?! A group that includes SGA and freaking Michael Porter Jr.?!?! That assertion is completely absurd on the face of it.
2. It says "ownership's current assertion." It doesn't say management. This is totally Robert Sarver. But James Jones should threaten to resign if he won't let him offer the max. He is complicit in this disgusting behavior.
1. There’s clearly a gap amongst the rookies. Luka and Trae are deserving of the supermax. I’d say SGA, Ayton, and MPJ are all a tier below. There’s not really a threat for SGA or MPJ to qualify for the supermax, so the fact they got those clauses doesn’t really mean much to me. It would take major leaps for them to make all-nba. And they’d actually be worthy of those contracts if they made those leaps. Ayton is different, he’s a C and has significantly less competition for All-NBA. There’s a very real scenario where he makes All-NBA and doesn’t actually make any leaps. He plays like he did in the playoffs and he’s probably 3rd team over Rudy.
2. This is just Ayton’s camp leaking stuff. You can’t take it as perfectly accurate. It’s all skewed info. We don’t know what the suns are offering.
1. If Ayton plays like he did in the playoffs and makes All-NBA, he deserves the supermax.
2. Woj may not like Sarver, but he still has to be accurate. If the Suns are offering Ayton a non-supermax max, then Woj would likely say that. Also, Gambo likely would have received that info from the Suns by now.
We just disagree about his value then. I loved what he did in the playoffs, but that wasn’t worth 40 million. Do you think he should be paid more than Booker? I don’t.
But now, with a looming Oct. 18 deadline for rookie extensions, sources said the talks between the Suns and Ayton's representatives have been slowed by ownership's current assertion that Ayton doesn't deserve to be included in that group of players -- and a belief by the 7-footer that his performance, his potential and the marketplace dictate that he does.
1. He "doesn't deserve to be included in that group of players"?! A group that includes SGA and freaking Michael Porter Jr.?!?! That assertion is completely absurd on the face of it.
2. It says "ownership's current assertion." It doesn't say management. This is totally Robert Sarver. But James Jones should threaten to resign if he won't let him offer the max. He is complicit in this disgusting behavior.
1. There’s clearly a gap amongst the rookies. Luka and Trae are deserving of the supermax. I’d say SGA, Ayton, and MPJ are all a tier below. There’s not really a threat for SGA or MPJ to qualify for the supermax, so the fact they got those clauses doesn’t really mean much to me. It would take major leaps for them to make all-nba. And they’d actually be worthy of those contracts if they made those leaps. Ayton is different, he’s a C and has significantly less competition for All-NBA. There’s a very real scenario where he makes All-NBA and doesn’t actually make any leaps. He plays like he did in the playoffs and he’s probably 3rd team over Rudy.
2. This is just Ayton’s camp leaking stuff. You can’t take it as perfectly accurate. It’s all skewed info. We don’t know what the suns are offering.
1. If Ayton plays like he did in the playoffs and makes All-NBA, he deserves the supermax.
2. Woj may not like Sarver, but he still has to be accurate. If the Suns are offering Ayton a non-supermax max, then Woj would likely say that. Also, Gambo likely would have received that info from the Suns by now.
1--As good as he was, it wasn't worth 40M. And we are not talking about the supermax--that is only for veterans. We are talking about the escalations.
2--Woj didn't say anything. Ayton's agency said everything. And I am not blaming them--that is a good PR move on their part. I just don't want to argue about how accurate Woj's is to show both sides, when clearly it is a piece written to help Ayton's negotiation.
For those that just want us to max him and be over with it, you mean the full 5 year max with escalations? Please tell me how paying Ayton 40 million a year is a good idea. And don’t use the argument that someone will pay him that and it’s the going rate. We are the only team that can pay him that.
We're already eschewing the exceptions at our disposal in favor of minimum contracts. What else can he do?
If he starts attaching draft picks to productive players again, I think I'm out.
Nobody is saying he will make good decisions or even decisions that end up saving money in the long-run. He is short-sighted and makes stupid decisions when he thinks he can save some money. I just think finding a way to make him think he got a win here would maybe save some stupid cost-cutting later. Hearing "Ayton signed a $210M contract with the Suns" when he is the 3rd or 4th best player on the team probably scares the shit out of him.
That's also a function of having a really good team - it means you have a lot of really good players and those players will be expensive. If Ayton was the second best player and we won 32 games, would he feel better about it?
He might. Who knows. The guy is an idiot when it comes to basketball.
But James Jones isn't and I think he's a pretty good communicator as well. If Sarver has learned anything, it's to listen to James Jones.
"Too little, too late, too unbothered."
- Phoenix Suns 2023-2024 season motto.
We just disagree about his value then. I loved what he did in the playoffs, but that wasn’t worth 40 million. Do you think he should be paid more than Booker? I don’t.
I think that it's better than him leaving, yes.
Last edited by JeremyG on Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
But now, with a looming Oct. 18 deadline for rookie extensions, sources said the talks between the Suns and Ayton's representatives have been slowed by ownership's current assertion that Ayton doesn't deserve to be included in that group of players -- and a belief by the 7-footer that his performance, his potential and the marketplace dictate that he does.
1. He "doesn't deserve to be included in that group of players"?! A group that includes SGA and freaking Michael Porter Jr.?!?! That assertion is completely absurd on the face of it.
2. It says "ownership's current assertion." It doesn't say management. This is totally Robert Sarver. But James Jones should threaten to resign if he won't let him offer the max. He is complicit in this disgusting behavior.
1. There’s clearly a gap amongst the rookies. Luka and Trae are deserving of the supermax. I’d say SGA, Ayton, and MPJ are all a tier below. There’s not really a threat for SGA or MPJ to qualify for the supermax, so the fact they got those clauses doesn’t really mean much to me. It would take major leaps for them to make all-nba. And they’d actually be worthy of those contracts if they made those leaps. Ayton is different, he’s a C and has significantly less competition for All-NBA. There’s a very real scenario where he makes All-NBA and doesn’t actually make any leaps. He plays like he did in the playoffs and he’s probably 3rd team over Rudy.
2. This is just Ayton’s camp leaking stuff. You can’t take it as perfectly accurate. It’s all skewed info. We don’t know what the suns are offering.
1. If Ayton plays like he did in the playoffs and makes All-NBA, he deserves the supermax.
2. Woj may not like Sarver, but he still has to be accurate. If the Suns are offering Ayton a non-supermax max, then Woj would likely say that. Also, Gambo likely would have received that info from the Suns by now.
1--As good as he was, it wasn't worth 40M. And we are not talking about the supermax--that is only for veterans. We are talking about the escalations.
2--Woj didn't say anything. Ayton's agency said everything. And I am not blaming them--that is a good PR move on their part. I just don't want to argue about how accurate Woj's is to show both sides, when clearly it is a piece written to help Ayton's negotiation.
you take Ayton out of this team we are a fringe playoff team... he needs to get the Max, he's our first #1 pick ever... just set a culture and a trend that we look after our own.
Bridges is the difficult one for me ... I'm ok if we wait a year on his but it needs doing at something that works for both.
This only hurts the Suns. If Bridges were locked up, I would buy everyone’s take here minimizing this situation. Granted, Ayton and Co maybe exacerbating things but when it comes to negotiating with Sarver, you have to imagine that any agency is going to take a “by any means necessary” approach. If nothing else, Ayton wants to lock this up within the next two weeks too.
Gambo says that the Suns, during their conversations with him, have never given any indication to him that they have offered any extension at all to Ayton this offseason.
"I'm a Deandre Ayton guy."--Al McCoy, September 21, 2022.
