The legacies of super-teams and ring-chasers...does it really matter?

[Charlie Smithy!]

Hey guys, just something I was thinking about today - and figured I'd get y'alls take on it.

Obviously we live in an age now where (some) of the best players are teaming up to get rings, and well within their rights to do so.

And we've all heard the take(s) from the greats of yesteryear. How they wouldn't do it, wouldn't sacrifice that desire to compete and beat their rivals.

So things like parity, legacies, and the historical context of all this come to find for me...and I'm not sure where to put it all.

But really, does any of this matter to you guys, as fans? Are the league's best players now scared shit-less more than ever of exiting the league without a ring?

And I guess the most pressing question for me is...years/decades down the road, will these players who teamed up to chase rings be thought of any differently?

Maybe a ring is a ring is a ring. I dunno.

Needless to say, you guys are smarter than me; so have at it!

[Cap]

Thunder are upset about KD bailing on them. He responds, "If you like it you shoulda put a ring on it."

[LazarusLong]

You can assemble a great roster, but egos, injuries and substance-abuse problems have a way of cropping up and derailing erstwhile juggernauts.

[AmareIsGod]

Look at Cleveland last year. They weren't the same team come finals as when they were at their peak. LeBron carried that team over "the greatest team ever assembled." LeBron cemented his greatness with me that series. He won that NBA Championship. Super teams and worldbeaters can crumble for many reasons.

[ShelC]

I think Draymond's suspension and the Ws road to the Finals played a part and not just LeBron carrying the Cavs over the Ws. Call me a hater, but I think those two things are very valid. The Ws/Thunder series was brutal. No way the Cavs beat either of those teams in those circumstances.

[O_Gardino]

It doesn't matter to me at all, except that I hate hearing people talk shit when a guy moves in free agency. I think the various ways teams can be built and disassembled adds a lot of interesting stuff to the off season.

The specifics are different than the old days, but the practice of players moving around is not any different. Ask Kareem, Wilt, Shaq. Moses Malone played for like 13 different teams. I mean, in the real old days, players jumped between leagues. Dudes like DRobinson and RMiller are rare in the history of the NBA.

[O_Gardino]

Look at Cleveland last year. They weren't the same team come finals as when they were at their peak. LeBron carried that team over "the greatest team ever assembled." LeBron cemented his greatness with me that series. He won that NBA Championship. Super teams and worldbeaters can crumble for many reasons.

In the last two Finals', the healthier team won. They were very entertaining games, and I think it's a sign of how good both teams (and stars) are that the series' were as competitive despite the injuries.

[wpmiller42]

I don't mind guys teaming up together on the same team. What's so different from pick-up ball at the playground? No one wants to play on a team they don't think can win.

But I do think that the league should do something to try and discourage it. I think in general, parity is good for a league from a business perspective. That being said, if the Suns were winning the championship every year, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[ShelC]

I think it might tarnish a legacy. When fans of this generation look back, they'll hold LbJ's ring with the Cavs maybe a bit more valuable than with the Heat. A vets who coattail ride to get a ring like Gary Payton? Holds less weight than if he would've done it in his prime with the Sonics.

Not sure Durant's move will be looked upon kindly if he wins a few rings. The Ws already had a great team and had won and he hadn't won prior.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Jordan, Pippen, Rodman (Ben Wallace before Ben Wallace, in my mind an Ubber Ben Wallace), Kukoc, is far from being a "single star" team. The same for those Spurs teams. Maybe the Kobe/Shaq Lakers can be named it as traditional "Legend big, awesome guard" two stars team. Our own vintage Phoenix Suns were far from just being "Barkley-KJ and role players", same for Nash, Amare, JJ, Marion. Also have in recent memory KG, Allen, Pierce, Rondo... and so on. Televisión and social media have pumped up players in almost every franchise, and everybody thinks of himself as a super star now. Every name in this paragrahp, would have been a franchise player in smaller teams, carrying them to the post season, some to the second rounder just by being healthy. You can equal Bosh to any of the "lesser names" mentioned, so we can find superteams really back in the day.

Since the Barkley, Drexler, Hakeem Pippen days, to the Kobe, Shaq, Payton, Malone Lakers, there were always players trying to team up. Granted that some were really veteran, but still, remember, those were days with SEVEN YEARS contracts and equally mamooth extensions, with almost every team capped out, so it's no like those guys were lacking intentions, but above all, were lacking the means to easily change teams other than trades.

[Mori Chu]

The reason KD was able to go to Golden State was because the players insisted on not having any "cap smoothing" and just having a gigantic spike in the cap all at once. Because of that, teams had max-level cap room instantly without having to give up anything. So the Warriors suddenly had enough money to sign one of the top-3 players in the NBA to what was already the winningest team of all time. If players complain about KD being on the Warriors, well, the players asked for this, and now they get to live with it.

[Indy]

The reason KD was able to go to Golden State was because the players insisted on not having any "cap smoothing" and just having a gigantic spike in the cap all at once. Because of that, teams had max-level cap room instantly without having to give up anything. So the Warriors suddenly had enough money to sign one of the top-3 players in the NBA to what was already the winningest team of all time. If players complain about KD being on the Warriors, well, the players asked for this, and now they get to live with it.

Which players are complaining?

[The Bobster]

The reason KD was able to go to Golden State was because the players insisted on not having any "cap smoothing" and just having a gigantic spike in the cap all at once. Because of that, teams had max-level cap room instantly without having to give up anything. So the Warriors suddenly had enough money to sign one of the top-3 players in the NBA to what was already the winningest team of all time. If players complain about KD being on the Warriors, well, the players asked for this, and now they get to live with it.

Which players are complaining?

You mean other than Russell Westbrook? Probably none of them because they want that option themselves.

I find it a little embarrassing when a great player (or formerly great) jumps onboard a prohibitive favorite -in the case of Durant it looks like he's taking the easiest route, and in the case of players like Malone and Payton joining the Lakers it looks like desperation.

I think it's tempting to take that route, but I would hope that if I were given the choice I would either stick with my teammates and fans that supported me, or if I'm looking to move, first look at my hometown team. A lot of players are drawn by the possibilities of playing with great (established) teams or in New York or LA where they can make a lot of money though.

Of course we were all-in on Aldridge coming here. And we didn't complain when Tisdale bailed on the Kings and Manning left the Clippers when both of those teams were hapless and the Suns were among the NBA's top teams.

[O_Gardino]

The reason KD was able to go to Golden State was because the players insisted on not having any "cap smoothing" and just having a gigantic spike in the cap all at once. Because of that, teams had max-level cap room instantly without having to give up anything. So the Warriors suddenly had enough money to sign one of the top-3 players in the NBA to what was already the winningest team of all time. If players complain about KD being on the Warriors, well, the players asked for this, and now they get to live with it.

Which players are complaining?

You mean other than Russell Westbrook? Probably none of them because they want that option themselves.

I find it a little embarrassing when a great player (or formerly great) jumps onboard a prohibitive favorite -in the case of Durant it looks like he's taking the easiest route, and in the case of players like Malone and Payton joining the Lakers it looks like desperation.

I think it's tempting to take that route, but I would hope that if I were given the choice I would either stick with my teammates and fans that supported me, or if I'm looking to move, first look at my hometown team. A lot of players are drawn by the possibilities of playing with great (established) teams or in New York or LA where they can make a lot of money though.

Of course we were all-in on Aldridge coming here. And we didn't complain when Tisdale bailed on the Kings and Manning left the Clippers when both of those teams were hapless and the Suns were among the NBA's top teams.

While I've heard Magic say that LeBron was wrong to go to Miami, I haven't heard Magic say that Kareem was wrong to go to LA. Nor have I heard him say that he wishes he would have been drafted onto a team closer to his hometown, so that he could have brought more competitive balance to the league.

It's easy to want to jump on a guy when the media is smashing him, and we all want to feel like we would do the "right" thing in his shoes. But if I hate a guy for increasing his chance to win, or if I slam a guy for increasing his income just by moving to a bigger market, well, that's not really the moral high ground.

[Indy]

As someone whose job it is to form a high performing team, I want to be able to pull the best folks from around the world to my team. I don't feel like that is cheating or that I have to only do it by hiring people right from college and spending the next 3-5 years training them in hopes they become great. Sure it is good to have a mix, but I don't get the hate.

[Mori Chu]

I mean, I agree with much of all that, but the league is likely to be boring for the next several years as the Warriors stomp every other team into the ground. If that's the league you want, maybe we just disagree.

I think salary caps and other restrictions on player movement are good for the league overall. I don't want the Lakers or Knicks or Warriors or whoever to be a super team that can just reload by throwing more money at more players every year. I don't hate free agency or player movement as a whole, but the limits in place help make the league more balanced and more interesting to me. And I feel for small-market teams that lose their stars. OKC got screwed. They were right on the cusp of winning a title; if Durant had stayed, you could argue that they would be near favorites to win the West. Instead he leaves and joins an already-73-win team. Was that good for the NBA?

[ShelC]

The only people in the league complaining about Durant to the Ws are other owners.

As much as winning, I do think Durant was tired of Westbrook and liked the "personality" of the Ws team.

[O_Gardino]

Oh, I agree that the NBA should try to maintain competitive balance. I just don't like the hate when a player does move.

In the case of Durant, well, I don't know what else the league could do.

And in any case, the Ws lost 4 good rotation players over the summer, too. So it's not like they just added Durant. And OKC could look in the mirror a bit as well. They had 3 of the top players in the world and let 2 of them go for basically nothing. If they wanted a super team, they could have built one. Or they could have traded Durant when he didn't want to re-up. They did have options.

[Ring_Wanted]

To me it matters to be a one team player. Wade going to Chicago is not an abomination as it is his hometown, but for instance, I would have liked to see Pierce a lifetime Celtic.

[Superbone]

I totally get the hate and I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm a part of it. I'll be particularly rooting against the Warriors this year. I like to see players stay loyal to their teams unless they've been mistreated. I hate the super team attempts. Hated LeBron to Miami and particularly how he played it out. He redeemed himself a bit going back home and winning. Unless it's my Suns, I'm against it.