Suns News: Week 25 - The End of '16-'17

[pickle]

I had the same question.

[Superbone]

Yeah, I don't get that. I think the team will turn the corner at some point. It should start next year and I expect to make the playoffs the year after that.

[Indy]

Yeah, I don't get that. I think the team will turn the corner at some point. It should start next year and I expect to make the playoffs the year after that.

Do you expect Watson to be the coach 2 years from now?

[Superbone]

Yeah, I don't get that. I think the team will turn the corner at some point. It should start next year and I expect to make the playoffs the year after that.

Do you expect Watson to be the coach 2 years from now?

I do. Unless McDonough is gone and then it's anybody's guess.

[Indy]

Yeah, I don't get that. I think the team will turn the corner at some point. It should start next year and I expect to make the playoffs the year after that.

Do you expect Watson to be the coach 2 years from now?

I do. Unless McDonough is gone and then it's anybody's guess.

So your hopes and your expectations are the same for this one? Usually with us Suns fans, those are not in line. If he is here another 2 full years of 82 games, he would pass Westy. If he makes it 3 (and we make the playoffs as you predicted), he would be up there with Mike.

[Indy]

Oh, and I hope you are right. If he is still here in +2 years, that means he is succeeding, which is good for all of us.

[Superbone]

Yeah, I don't get that. I think the team will turn the corner at some point. It should start next year and I expect to make the playoffs the year after that.

Do you expect Watson to be the coach 2 years from now?

I do. Unless McDonough is gone and then it's anybody's guess.

So your hopes and your expectations are the same for this one? Usually with us Suns fans, those are not in line. If he is here another 2 full years of 82 games, he would pass Westy. If he makes it 3 (and we make the playoffs as you predicted), he would be up there with Mike.

Wow, those are pretty amazing stats. And not in a good way. It sure would be nice to have some consistency for a period of time like some of the other good to great franchises. Can Watson do it? Who knows but I am optimistic by nature. I love the way he relates to our guys and I hope he can grow as a strategist. Time will tell.

[Indy]

Yeah, I don't get that. I think the team will turn the corner at some point. It should start next year and I expect to make the playoffs the year after that.

Do you expect Watson to be the coach 2 years from now?

I do. Unless McDonough is gone and then it's anybody's guess.

So your hopes and your expectations are the same for this one? Usually with us Suns fans, those are not in line. If he is here another 2 full years of 82 games, he would pass Westy. If he makes it 3 (and we make the playoffs as you predicted), he would be up there with Mike.

Wow, those are pretty amazing stats. And not in a good way. It sure would be nice to have some consistency for a period of time like some of the other good to great franchises. Can Watson do it? Who knows but I am optimistic by nature. I love the way he relates to our guys and I hope he can grow as a strategist. Time will tell.

I would much prefer he brings in someone to do that. Very few people can even coach in the NBA, much less be great on managing players AND managing the game. Find someone like Tex was for Phil, and let that person do the strategy work. Someone that has been studying that for their whole life, but probably can't relate well to the players. Focus on your strengths, and find others to do what you can't.

[Superbone]

Do you expect Watson to be the coach 2 years from now?

I do. Unless McDonough is gone and then it's anybody's guess.

So your hopes and your expectations are the same for this one? Usually with us Suns fans, those are not in line. If he is here another 2 full years of 82 games, he would pass Westy. If he makes it 3 (and we make the playoffs as you predicted), he would be up there with Mike.

Wow, those are pretty amazing stats. And not in a good way. It sure would be nice to have some consistency for a period of time like some of the other good to great franchises. Can Watson do it? Who knows but I am optimistic by nature. I love the way he relates to our guys and I hope he can grow as a strategist. Time will tell.

I would much prefer he brings in someone to do that. Very few people can even coach in the NBA, much less be great on managing players AND managing the game. Find someone like Tex was for Phil, and let that person do the strategy work. Someone that has been studying that for their whole life, but probably can't relate well to the players. Focus on your strengths, and find others to do what you can't.

Great idea! Who that is, I don't know. But good point that one coach doesn't have to do it all. I hope we can find that guy. Triano doesn't appear to be him. We could use some help on both the defensive and offensive side of the ball. Heck, maybe bring in a guy for each. I don't have a lot of confidence in our current assistant coaches. I like Bjorkgren but he doesn't have enough experience. I loved Corbin as a player but I haven't been impressed with his coaching chops.

[LazarusLong]

I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of vision or plan about what they want to do with the talent they've assembled.

So far, it seems management is thinking about some sort of half-assed repeat of SSOL. That would be nice if the team had more dependable outside shooting, especially from the arc.

And defensively, this may be the most clueless team the Suns have had since year one of the franchise.
There are some individual players who have some potential, but the concept of team defense is totally alien.
This is where coaching needs to play a role, and I'm not seeing it. That's not just on Watson, that's on the whole collection of suits who sit there like accountants on opioids.
It's embarrassing...

[Superbone]

And defensively, this may be the most clueless team the Suns have had since year one of the franchise.
There are some individual players who have some potential, but the concept of team defense is totally alien.
This is where coaching needs to play a role, and I'm not seeing it. That's not just on Watson, that's on the whole collection of suits who sit there like accountants on opioids.
It's embarrassing...

Yep, a lot of work needed on the defensive side of things. We routinely go down by a large margin to start a game and then spend the rest of the game fighting back. This needs to be a priority going forward if we want to get back to the playoffs.

[Ring_Wanted]

At this point I'm still not pro or anti Watson, although I was vocal about my Mike D preference (still drool about what he could do with Booker, especially watching Harden).

Under Watson you can't really say that the team is more than the sum of its parts, because he is not Stevens. Still, but as long as he instills good habits on the kids and gives them minutes (which by now is unavoidable), I'm ok with him until a better coach comes up.

I'll give him credit for his role in turning a toxic lockeroom into a happy place (for most), and decreasing the ugly and dumb ball, but starting next season, he has to show me more or I'll think that he's just good assistant material instead of HC. To his defense, nobody wins with teenagers (Portland is the only team basically ever to make the playoffs with nobody age 29 or older). I won't put on him certain flaws of this roster that ocme by design, like 3pt shooting, but there are things that can be improved and he has to make it happen. For instance, our defense is abysmal, and we seem to enter every game 15 points down.

[pickle]

At this point I'm still not pro or anti Watson, although I was vocal about my Mike D preference (still drool about what he could do with Booker, especially watching Harden).

Under Watson you can't really say that the team is more than the sum of its parts, because he is not Stevens. Still, but as long as he instills good habits on the kids and gives them minutes (which by now is unavoidable), I'm ok with him until a better coach comes up.

I'll give him credit for his role in turning a toxic lockeroom into a happy place (for most), and decreasing the ugly and dumb ball, but starting next season, he has to show me more or I'll think that he's just good assistant material instead of HC. To his defense, nobody wins with teenagers (Portland is the only team basically ever to make the playoffs with nobody age 29 or older). I won't put on him certain flaws of this roster that ocme by design, like 3pt shooting, but there are things that can be improved and he has to make it happen. For instance, our defense is abysmal, and we seem to enter every game 15 points down.

Agree with almost every word of this, except I didn't drool for Mike D.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I was vocal about my Mike D preference (still drool about what he could do with Booker, especially watching Harden).

I'm glad to see D'Antoni doing his thing again, but Harden and Booker are quite different players and I don't think he would've had the same sort of impact with the Suns and Booker.

[TOO]

I was vocal about my Mike D preference (still drool about what he could do with Booker, especially watching Harden).

I'm glad to see D'Antoni doing his thing again, but Harden and Booker are quite different players and I don't think he would've had the same sort of impact with the Suns and Booker.

Nope. People somehow still underrate Harden, like this monster he is is a product of MikeD. Booker isnt ready for prime time yet, in a couple more years though, he could potentially do what Harden is doing if a team is built to suit his game.

[ShelC]

Agreed. Booker's very good right now, but Harden's a perfect fit for that system.

With Watson, I'm down on him exactly because he doesn't strike me as an Xs and Os guy. He'd not a hardened assistant who's been grinding away in the video room for 10 years, knows each team's plays by heart, has learned to make adjustments and adjustments to adjustments. He's a philosophy guy and a cheerleader IMO. Now that's fine for now and we need that with the young group while we're not winning. But I also don't want to see us get stagnant and waste a year or two of Booker, Chriss, Bender, Ulis because Watson can't coach them up and make them smarter offensively and defensively. I don't think this is a learn on the job kind of thing where he's going to become a great tactician simply because he hasn't had the time to become one.

Look at the careers/backgrounds of guys like Spo, Mike Malone, Steve Clifford, JVG, Carlisle, Stotts. Some guys get lucky and get a team with talent (Kerr, Kidd, MikeD), some coach up a team that has no business winning even 25 games - guys like Spo, Malone, Carlisle. At any point in the year did the Heat, Nuggets or Mavs have more talent than us, on paper? Hell, Miami lost Wade and Bosh and still won 41 games. That's a big argument for me. What could some of those coaches have done with Bledsoe, Booker, PJ, Tyson, TJ, and our rooks? I get we tanked at the end of the year so our win total is off, but even so, we tanked after All-Star because Watson couldn't win with a veteran group. What does that tell you? He's got another year as far as I'm concerned and that's only because we're going to be bad again. After that, hopefully we're ready to take a big step and have a coach who can elevate our talent.

[Flagrant Fowl]

I was vocal about my Mike D preference (still drool about what he could do with Booker, especially watching Harden).

I'm glad to see D'Antoni doing his thing again, but Harden and Booker are quite different players and I don't think he would've had the same sort of impact with the Suns and Booker.

Nope. People somehow still underrate Harden, like this monster he is is a product of MikeD. Booker isnt ready for prime time yet, in a couple more years though, he could potentially do what Harden is doing if a team is built to suit his game.

I don't know...

Harden has hundreds of more minutes (rough estimate) as a PG going back to his days at ASU, and his ability to drive and draw contact or finish is at an elite level.

I'm with you that Booker still has a lot of room to develop, but the skills that Harden uses in D'Antoni's system have been honed over a much longer period that Booker will never benefit from having.

I just don't see Booker ever becoming a ball handler and distributor at the level we're seeing from Harden now, and that's what makes him thrive under D'Antoni.

[Flagrant Fowl]

The perfect scenario is that the Suns stay young, overachieve, and make the playoffs next year.

They do so well that the potential on the roster draws the attention of more seasoned coaches, and they hire someone to mould the team into a fringe contender within the following 1-2 seasons. In reality, they'd probably keep Watson if he made the playoffs, and that would be acceptable but shortsighted if the right replacement coach was available.

Of course the right mix of vets, youth and overall roster management by the GM is a lynchpin to everything, but we're one more drafted all-star away from building into long term playoff stability.

[pickle]

I was vocal about my Mike D preference (still drool about what he could do with Booker, especially watching Harden).

I'm glad to see D'Antoni doing his thing again, but Harden and Booker are quite different players and I don't think he would've had the same sort of impact with the Suns and Booker.

Nope. People somehow still underrate Harden, like this monster he is is a product of MikeD. Booker isnt ready for prime time yet, in a couple more years though, he could potentially do what Harden is doing if a team is built to suit his game.

I don't know...

Harden has hundreds of more minutes (rough estimate) as a PG going back to his days at ASU, and his ability to drive and draw contact or finish is at an elite level.

I'm with you that Booker still has a lot of room to develop, but the skills that Harden uses in D'Antoni's system have been honed over a much longer period that Booker will never benefit from having.

I just don't see Booker ever becoming a ball handler and distributor at the level we're seeing from Harden now, and that's what makes him thrive under D'Antoni.

I'm pretty sure you two are agreeing with each other.

[pickle]

Agreed. Booker's very good right now, but Harden's a perfect fit for that system.

With Watson, I'm down on him exactly because he doesn't strike me as an Xs and Os guy. He'd not a hardened assistant who's been grinding away in the video room for 10 years, knows each team's plays by heart, has learned to make adjustments and adjustments to adjustments. He's a philosophy guy and a cheerleader IMO. Now that's fine for now and we need that with the young group while we're not winning. But I also don't want to see us get stagnant and waste a year or two of Booker, Chriss, Bender, Ulis because Watson can't coach them up and make them smarter offensively and defensively. I don't think this is a learn on the job kind of thing where he's going to become a great tactician simply because he hasn't had the time to become one.

Look at the careers/backgrounds of guys like Spo, Mike Malone, Steve Clifford, JVG, Carlisle, Stotts. Some guys get lucky and get a team with talent (Kerr, Kidd, MikeD), some coach up a team that has no business winning even 25 games - guys like Spo, Malone, Carlisle. At any point in the year did the Heat, Nuggets or Mavs have more talent than us, on paper? Hell, Miami lost Wade and Bosh and still won 41 games. That's a big argument for me. What could some of those coaches have done with Bledsoe, Booker, PJ, Tyson, TJ, and our rooks? I get we tanked at the end of the year so our win total is off, but even so, we tanked after All-Star because Watson couldn't win with a veteran group. What does that tell you? He's got another year as far as I'm concerned and that's only because we're going to be bad again. After that, hopefully we're ready to take a big step and have a coach who can elevate our talent.

Generally agree that Watson is not a great coach. He's also not a bad one. His one skill, maintaining positive attitude, also doesn't grow on trees, and in pining for his dismissal I'm always wary of what Sarver might have stomach for in terms of a replacement.

I'm not that high on Malone, and I do think the Nuggets had better talent than us. Even if we project to be better in the future, at this point Chriss and Bender are NBA non-factors, whereas the Nuggets go about 9 deep with true NBA rotational guys and at least 1.5 legit stars. I would replace Malone with Stevens in your post.