Suns News: Week 25 - The End of '16-'17

[TOO]

First off, Bledsoe ranks 45th at 4.58 seconds. Ulis is 49th at 4.55 seconds by the way.

See, that's really interesting. When watching them run the team it feels totally different. It feels like the ball sticks with Bledsoe and that it moves freely with Ulis. Maybe that's not the right stat to describe the difference.

Stats can be misleading and this one may not tell the whole story, but our eyes can be misleading too. I think there's a good chance we want Bledsoe to be a ball hog so we remember the times he holds the ball the whole possession and forget those same times for Ulis. As a team we averaged 20.9 assists per game once Ulis took over as the starter for the last 15 games. Our season average was 19.6. However, interesting to note is that we averaged 23.0 assists per game in the 10 games we played with Bledsoe after the all star break.

Thats about when Ulis' playing time picked up, giving us 2 willing passers, along with Booker who can pass. Bledsoe can work here, but his knees and age are not core fits. If he were 24 and his knees were fine, I would not be looking to move him, he'd be fine.

[O_Gardino]

First off, Bledsoe ranks 45th at 4.58 seconds. Ulis is 49th at 4.55 seconds by the way.

See, that's really interesting. When watching them run the team it feels totally different. It feels like the ball sticks with Bledsoe and that it moves freely with Ulis. Maybe that's not the right stat to describe the difference.

When Ulis has the ball, he himself is usually in motion. Bledsoe seems to spend more time dribbling in place. Also Ulis can probe the paint while keeping his dribble, while Bledsoe seems to do more of his dribbling on the perimeter. Bleds often "pounds the ball" at the top of the key while he waits for teammates to clear out, then barrels toward the rim, picking up his dribble on reaching the paint, and hopes to get off a shot or a pass. I wonder, is there a "dribbling in place" stat, or a "dribble map" of where a player does his dribbling?

That's how I see it, and I would add that the other guys on the team move more when Ulis has the ball, too.

[O_Gardino]

First off, Bledsoe ranks 45th at 4.58 seconds. Ulis is 49th at 4.55 seconds by the way.

See, that's really interesting. When watching them run the team it feels totally different. It feels like the ball sticks with Bledsoe and that it moves freely with Ulis. Maybe that's not the right stat to describe the difference.

Stats can be misleading and this one may not tell the whole story, but our eyes can be misleading too. I think there's a good chance we want Bledsoe to be a ball hog so we remember the times he holds the ball the whole possession and forget those same times for Ulis. As a team we averaged 20.9 assists per game once Ulis took over as the starter for the last 15 games. Our season average was 19.6. However, interesting to note is that we averaged 23.0 assists per game in the 10 games we played with Bledsoe after the all star break.

Valid point. Hopefully, other GMs see the good Bledsoe better than we do.

[Split T]

Another interesting stat, 11.4% of Ulis passes ended up as assists. 10.1% of Bledsoe passes ended up as assists.

[Split T]

First off, Bledsoe ranks 45th at 4.58 seconds. Ulis is 49th at 4.55 seconds by the way.

See, that's really interesting. When watching them run the team it feels totally different. It feels like the ball sticks with Bledsoe and that it moves freely with Ulis. Maybe that's not the right stat to describe the difference.

Stats can be misleading and this one may not tell the whole story, but our eyes can be misleading too. I think there's a good chance we want Bledsoe to be a ball hog so we remember the times he holds the ball the whole possession and forget those same times for Ulis. As a team we averaged 20.9 assists per game once Ulis took over as the starter for the last 15 games. Our season average was 19.6. However, interesting to note is that we averaged 23.0 assists per game in the 10 games we played with Bledsoe after the all star break.

Thats about when Ulis' playing time picked up, giving us 2 willing passers, along with Booker who can pass. Bledsoe can work here, but his knees and age are not core fits. If he were 24 and his knees were fine, I would not be looking to move him, he'd be fine.

The stats tell me we have two and a half guys that create offense for others(Bled, Ulis, and sorta Booker) Having at least one of bled or Ulis in the game helped our assist numbers. Knight playing pg killed our assist numbers as he didn't pass much.

[Superbone]

I enjoyed the Williams and Booker "look back on 16-17 season" videos with Lindsey Smith. Check them out here:

http://www.nba.com/suns/video/archive

I'm already pretty excited about what next season could bring. I'm not counting on it but I could see us approaching a 41 win total next year.

[TOO]

Absolutely, Knight for whatever reason just came in and chucked the ball, his facilitation ability, which he does indeed have, went out the window. I dont know if that was by design or what, but it was awful. He destroyed any offensively flow once he hit the court. I wonder if Watson and Co. wanted him to just go out and score, ala Jamal Crawford and forget everything else. Bleh, he was a turd.

[TOO]

I enjoyed the Williams and Booker "look back on 16-17 season" videos with Lindsey Smith. Check them out here:

http://www.nba.com/suns/video/archive

I'm already pretty excited about what next season could bring. I'm not counting on it but I could see us approaching a 41 win total next year.

If we keep Chandler/Bledsoe and draft one of Fultz/Jackson/Tatum/Ball I could see 41 wins being attainable. A full professional summer for Ulis/Chriss/Bender to get stronger, in better shape etc.. Adding a top talent, and keeping the vets could lead the Suns to a surprising win total. Just gotta shore up the defense, we've seen we can score. just gotta get stops now.

[JustWinBaby]

I enjoyed the Williams and Booker "look back on 16-17 season" videos with Lindsey Smith. Check them out here:

http://www.nba.com/suns/video/archive

I'm already pretty excited about what next season could bring. I'm not counting on it but I could see us approaching a 41 win total next year.

Wait a minute Bone. Just a couple of days ago you called me out for suggesting that we could be capable of winning 41 games next year. The Bandwagon is already full.

[JustWinBaby]

I enjoyed the Williams and Booker "look back on 16-17 season" videos with Lindsey Smith. Check them out here:

http://www.nba.com/suns/video/archive

I'm already pretty excited about what next season could bring. I'm not counting on it but I could see us approaching a 41 win total next year.

If we keep Chandler/Bledsoe and draft one of Fultz/Jackson/Tatum/Ball I could see 41 wins being attainable. A full professional summer for Ulis/Chriss/Bender to get stronger, in better shape etc.. Adding a top talent, and keeping the vets could lead the Suns to a surprising win total. Just gotta shore up the defense, we've seen we can score. just gotta get stops now.

I am thinking that our best pick, if available, is Jackson. He reportedly is a fantastic defender. We probably need that more than another point guard. If we draft him and keep Bledsoe we have could have two very good defenders prior to the maturation of our other young guys. We could see dramatic improvement on the defensive end.

I really have no idea which way McDonough goes, but a think Bledsoe is his guy.

[Mori Chu]

I wouldn't say usage is a good indicator of a ball hog. A better measure would be time spent with the ball per touch. And I'd discount the first 'touch' of every possesion that brings the ball up the court and waits for guys to get into position
Take the Klay's 60 point game for example. I guess his usage was high that game, but he barely had the ball in his hands.

Guards who averaged more time with ball per touch than Bledsoe:

First off, Bledsoe ranks 45th at 4.58 seconds. Ulis is 49th at 4.55 seconds by the way.

Lowry, Derozan, IT, Irving, CP3, George Hill, Tony Parker, Dragic, Conley, Teague, Westbrook, harden, Rubio, Lillard, Kemba, and wall all hold the ball longer than bled per touch.

That is an interesting stat, but I think it matters what the player does after the touch, not just the length of the touch. If Bledsoe holds the ball for 4.58 sec and then shoots more often than Ulis does, it matters. And even if they both would pass, Bledsoe isn't as good at passing correctly to set the teammate up to score.

[carey]

That is an interesting stat, but I think it matters what the player does after the touch, not just the length of the touch. If Bledsoe holds the ball for 4.58 sec and then shoots more often than Ulis does, it matters. And even if they both would pass, Bledsoe isn't as good at passing correctly to set the teammate up to score.

I think this is a little bit of you taking the evidence that shows you something that doesn't fit what you already believe and finding a reason to discount it. To me the fact is that, although he doesn't always make the best pass, he does pass the ball and the result is quite often a missed shot by our guys. As they grow and continue to get better in catch & shoot & cutting situations I would look to see his assist numbers make a significant jump even though he's never averaged over 6. We've not done a great job of surrounding him with shooters and scorers since we traded for him. With Booker, Warren, Chriss & Bender's improvement it could change next year, but he has to make smarter decisions with the ball, especially when things get tight in the 4th quarter. We all miss Steve and would love to have the next "Nash" running the show. At the same time we should realize that PG dominant offenses don't usually fair that well in the playoffs. A team oriented passing approach seems to be what is winning in the league today if you were to see the Spurs and Warriors as evidence. I'm much more interested in crafting that environment than say one where a single player makes the engine go.

[Indy]

That is an interesting stat, but I think it matters what the player does after the touch, not just the length of the touch. If Bledsoe holds the ball for 4.58 sec and then shoots more often than Ulis does, it matters. And even if they both would pass, Bledsoe isn't as good at passing correctly to set the teammate up to score.

I think this is a little bit of you taking the evidence that shows you something that doesn't fit what you already believe and finding a reason to discount it. To me the fact is that, although he doesn't always make the best pass, he does pass the ball and the result is quite often a missed shot by our guys. As they grow and continue to get better in catch & shoot & cutting situations I would look to see his assist numbers make a significant jump even though he's never averaged over 6. We've not done a great job of surrounding him with shooters and scorers since we traded for him. With Booker, Warren, Chriss & Bender's improvement it could change next year, but he has to make smarter decisions with the ball, especially when things get tight in the 4th quarter. We all miss Steve and would love to have the next "Nash" running the show. At the same time we should realize that PG dominant offenses don't usually fair that well in the playoffs. A team oriented passing approach seems to be what is winning in the league today if you were to see the Spurs and Warriors as evidence. I'm much more interested in crafting that environment than say one where a single player makes the engine go.

And as Split pointed out, their assist rates are not all that different (10.1% to 11.4%).

[Hermen]

A team oriented passing approach seems to be what is winning in the league today if you were to see the Spurs and Warriors as evidence. I'm much more interested in crafting that environment than say one where a single player makes the engine go.

There are also Cavaliers, Bucks and even Miami with James Johnson. Some passing all-around and a big playmaker that allows guards to run around off-ball. Maybe when you have a good playmaking forward it's easier to find shooting around him than the other way around (shooting wings for a passing guard).

[Split T]

Here's another interesting stat. Average points scored per potential assist. Essentially what this means is when someone received a pass from a given player and attempted a shot or was fouled, how many points did we score on average. It gives an indication of who creates the best/easier scoring opportunities for other players. Booker leads the team at 1.25 points per potential assist then Bledsoe at 1.24, then Dudley at 1.23. Ulis is at 1.18. Knight at 1.16.

I imagine Ulis numbers are lower because he spent more time with lesser players, still interesting though. I didn't include bender because his sample size was tiny, but he would have led the team at 1.33.

[O_Gardino]

Here's another interesting stat. Average points scored per potential assist. Essentially what this means is when someone received a pass from a given player and attempted a shot or was fouled, how many points did we score on average. It gives an indication of who creates the best/easier scoring opportunities for other players. Booker leads the team at 1.25 points per potential assist then Bledsoe at 1.24, then Dudley at 1.23. Ulis is at 1.18. Knight at 1.16.

I imagine Ulis numbers are lower because he spent more time with lesser players, still interesting though. I didn't include bender because his sample size was tiny, but he would have led the team at 1.33.

Ulis has lower numbers there because he passes toward the basket. It's more Alan Williams drawing fouls, or guys attempting layups or 10fters. Book and Bled drive in then pass out, so they pass to 3pt shooters more. Bender and Dudley mostly move the ball on the perimeter, so they hit 3pt shooters, too. When did any of those guys pass the ball to Alan Williams?

Look, I can't think of a higher compliment for Ulis or a lower standard for Bledsoe than this whole discussion. What you guys are saying is that our veteran starting point guard in the prime of his career is statistically comparable to a 2nd round rookie who many think is too small to make it in the NBA.

Good for Ulis, that he put this kind of pressure on Bledsoe, even though he was playing with other rookies and undrafted players. Our "tanking" point guard moves the ball (statistically) almost as effectively as our "allstar #s" point guard. And he looks so much better doing it that folks have to dig up theses stats to defend the starter. Good for Ulis.

[Superbone]

I enjoyed the Williams and Booker "look back on 16-17 season" videos with Lindsey Smith. Check them out here:

http://www.nba.com/suns/video/archive

I'm already pretty excited about what next season could bring. I'm not counting on it but I could see us approaching a 41 win total next year.

Wait a minute Bone. Just a couple of days ago you called me out for suggesting that we could be capable of winning 41 games next year. The Bandwagon is already full.

I don't think I've ever "called out" anybody for their predictions. And sports bandwagons by definition always have room for more.

[Split T]

Here's another interesting stat. Average points scored per potential assist. Essentially what this means is when someone received a pass from a given player and attempted a shot or was fouled, how many points did we score on average. It gives an indication of who creates the best/easier scoring opportunities for other players. Booker leads the team at 1.25 points per potential assist then Bledsoe at 1.24, then Dudley at 1.23. Ulis is at 1.18. Knight at 1.16.

I imagine Ulis numbers are lower because he spent more time with lesser players, still interesting though. I didn't include bender because his sample size was tiny, but he would have led the team at 1.33.

Ulis has lower numbers there because he passes toward the basket. It's more Alan Williams drawing fouls, or guys attempting layups or 10fters. Book and Bled drive in then pass out, so they pass to 3pt shooters more. Bender and Dudley mostly move the ball on the perimeter, so they hit 3pt shooters, too. When did any of those guys pass the ball to Alan Williams?

Look, I can't think of a higher compliment for Ulis or a lower standard for Bledsoe than this whole discussion. What you guys are saying is that our veteran starting point guard in the prime of his career is statistically comparable to a 2nd round rookie who many think is too small to make it in the NBA.

Good for Ulis, that he put this kind of pressure on Bledsoe, even though he was playing with other rookies and undrafted players. Our "tanking" point guard moves the ball (statistically) almost as effectively as our "allstar #s" point guard. And he looks so much better doing it that folks have to dig up theses stats to defend the starter. Good for Ulis.

I didn't really have an agenda with my stats, people asked questions and I tried to provide them. I do think Bledsoe gets an unfair rep at times and these stats do tend to show, at the very least, that Ulis isn't far and away a better passer right now. They are pretty similar right now. However, that only extends to passing. Bledsoe is significantly better as a scorer right now than Ulis.

[Indy]

Here's another interesting stat. Average points scored per potential assist. Essentially what this means is when someone received a pass from a given player and attempted a shot or was fouled, how many points did we score on average. It gives an indication of who creates the best/easier scoring opportunities for other players. Booker leads the team at 1.25 points per potential assist then Bledsoe at 1.24, then Dudley at 1.23. Ulis is at 1.18. Knight at 1.16.

I imagine Ulis numbers are lower because he spent more time with lesser players, still interesting though. I didn't include bender because his sample size was tiny, but he would have led the team at 1.33.

Ulis has lower numbers there because he passes toward the basket. It's more Alan Williams drawing fouls, or guys attempting layups or 10fters. Book and Bled drive in then pass out, so they pass to 3pt shooters more. Bender and Dudley mostly move the ball on the perimeter, so they hit 3pt shooters, too. When did any of those guys pass the ball to Alan Williams?

Look, I can't think of a higher compliment for Ulis or a lower standard for Bledsoe than this whole discussion. What you guys are saying is that our veteran starting point guard in the prime of his career is statistically comparable to a 2nd round rookie who many think is too small to make it in the NBA.

Good for Ulis, that he put this kind of pressure on Bledsoe, even though he was playing with other rookies and undrafted players. Our "tanking" point guard moves the ball (statistically) almost as effectively as our "allstar #s" point guard. And he looks so much better doing it that folks have to dig up theses stats to defend the starter. Good for Ulis.

I didn't really have an agenda with my stats, people asked questions and I tried to provide them. I do think Bledsoe gets an unfair rep at times and these stats do tend to show, at the very least, that Ulis isn't far and away a better passer right now. They are pretty similar right now. However, that only extends to passing. Bledsoe is significantly better as a scorer right now than Ulis.

And rebounder. Bledsoe has some very elite talent, and is committed, and great in the community.

[TOO]

Where's INF when you need him? A decent amount of Bledsoe praise in here, needs some eye rolls.