Suns News: Week 25 - The End of '16-'17

[Indy]

Where's INF when you need him? A decent amount of Bledsoe praise in here, needs some eye rolls.

Praise, but nobody is suggesting we move forward with him. I think almost everyone is saying they would prefer a different starting PG.

[carey]

Only because his glaring weakness is clutch decision making and you can't win making bad decisions at the end of games continuously. In the playoffs that is death. Otherwise he is a perfectly good almost great PG.

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[Split T]

Where's INF when you need him? A decent amount of Bledsoe praise in here, needs some eye rolls.

Praise, but nobody is suggesting we move forward with him. I think almost everyone is saying they would prefer a different starting PG.

Exactly, the problem is he's our best player. He could probably be the 2nd best player on a good team or the 3rd best on a contender. Put him on any of those bottom 4 east playoff teams and he'd make some sense. He's better than Schroeder, teague, brogdon, or Rondo. He'd also make a lot of sense with the spurs to be honest. He's better than Parker at this point and could actually help out on defense. Parker and Mills are getting shredded by Conley. Although, to be fair, Conley has had some big games against Bledsoe.

Point remains, I think Bledsoe needs to play with a ball dominant wing and be more of a secondary ball handler. Someone like Butler, Kawhi, George, or Giannis. Obviously LeBron or Durant would work as well.

[O_Gardino]

Here's another interesting stat. Average points scored per potential assist. Essentially what this means is when someone received a pass from a given player and attempted a shot or was fouled, how many points did we score on average. It gives an indication of who creates the best/easier scoring opportunities for other players. Booker leads the team at 1.25 points per potential assist then Bledsoe at 1.24, then Dudley at 1.23. Ulis is at 1.18. Knight at 1.16.

I imagine Ulis numbers are lower because he spent more time with lesser players, still interesting though. I didn't include bender because his sample size was tiny, but he would have led the team at 1.33.

Ulis has lower numbers there because he passes toward the basket. It's more Alan Williams drawing fouls, or guys attempting layups or 10fters. Book and Bled drive in then pass out, so they pass to 3pt shooters more. Bender and Dudley mostly move the ball on the perimeter, so they hit 3pt shooters, too. When did any of those guys pass the ball to Alan Williams?

Look, I can't think of a higher compliment for Ulis or a lower standard for Bledsoe than this whole discussion. What you guys are saying is that our veteran starting point guard in the prime of his career is statistically comparable to a 2nd round rookie who many think is too small to make it in the NBA.

Good for Ulis, that he put this kind of pressure on Bledsoe, even though he was playing with other rookies and undrafted players. Our "tanking" point guard moves the ball (statistically) almost as effectively as our "allstar #s" point guard. And he looks so much better doing it that folks have to dig up theses stats to defend the starter. Good for Ulis.

I didn't really have an agenda with my stats, people asked questions and I tried to provide them. I do think Bledsoe gets an unfair rep at times and these stats do tend to show, at the very least, that Ulis isn't far and away a better passer right now. They are pretty similar right now. However, that only extends to passing. Bledsoe is significantly better as a scorer right now than Ulis.

And rebounder. Bledsoe has some very elite talent, and is committed, and great in the community.

Split and Indy, I hear you guys, and I respect that you always keep very balanced views of our players. I'd like to balance the take on Bledsoe from "some very elite talent" to "some pretty good talent." 15 years ago, a PG averaging 20/5/6 on 43% shooting would have been a good player. In this era, with the rules as they are, there are 11 dudes who put up similar #s. Only Westbrook shoots a lower fg%, only Wall shoots a lower 3pt%, and in the advanced stats, Bled is by far the worst of that group.

Basketball Ref list of guys averaging at least 18/3.5/5

I'm not trying to bash Bled, I just don't think there is anything Elite in his game. He is average, but in this era, average point guards put up good #s. Sure, he's one of the better "average" PG's in the L, but he's not in the same class as the stars. If he was the 4th option on offense, he would be a fan favorite because of his occasional breakout 30pt games.

Id like to trade him, because I think his trade value is high right now, and I don't want another minutes log jam on our hands next year. If he is still with us, I won't be mad about it, because I agree that he is a good teammate and member of the community. But I would expect him to be the third option after Booker and Warren, and I would expect a big reduction in his minutes if we draft a point guard.

[O_Gardino]

I see the rest of your posts, and I think we agree.

[Indy]

Here's another interesting stat. Average points scored per potential assist. Essentially what this means is when someone received a pass from a given player and attempted a shot or was fouled, how many points did we score on average. It gives an indication of who creates the best/easier scoring opportunities for other players. Booker leads the team at 1.25 points per potential assist then Bledsoe at 1.24, then Dudley at 1.23. Ulis is at 1.18. Knight at 1.16.

I imagine Ulis numbers are lower because he spent more time with lesser players, still interesting though. I didn't include bender because his sample size was tiny, but he would have led the team at 1.33.

Ulis has lower numbers there because he passes toward the basket. It's more Alan Williams drawing fouls, or guys attempting layups or 10fters. Book and Bled drive in then pass out, so they pass to 3pt shooters more. Bender and Dudley mostly move the ball on the perimeter, so they hit 3pt shooters, too. When did any of those guys pass the ball to Alan Williams?

Look, I can't think of a higher compliment for Ulis or a lower standard for Bledsoe than this whole discussion. What you guys are saying is that our veteran starting point guard in the prime of his career is statistically comparable to a 2nd round rookie who many think is too small to make it in the NBA.

Good for Ulis, that he put this kind of pressure on Bledsoe, even though he was playing with other rookies and undrafted players. Our "tanking" point guard moves the ball (statistically) almost as effectively as our "allstar #s" point guard. And he looks so much better doing it that folks have to dig up theses stats to defend the starter. Good for Ulis.

I didn't really have an agenda with my stats, people asked questions and I tried to provide them. I do think Bledsoe gets an unfair rep at times and these stats do tend to show, at the very least, that Ulis isn't far and away a better passer right now. They are pretty similar right now. However, that only extends to passing. Bledsoe is significantly better as a scorer right now than Ulis.

And rebounder. Bledsoe has some very elite talent, and is committed, and great in the community.

Split and Indy, I hear you guys, and I respect that you always keep very balanced views of our players. I'd like to balance the take on Bledsoe from "some very elite talent" to "some pretty good talent." 15 years ago, a PG averaging 20/5/6 on 43% shooting would have been a good player. In this era, with the rules as they are, there are 11 dudes who put up similar #s. Only Westbrook shoots a lower fg%, only Wall shoots a lower 3pt%, and in the advanced stats, Bled is by far the worst of that group.

Basketball Ref list of guys averaging at least 18/3.5/5

I'm not trying to bash Bled, I just don't think there is anything Elite in his game. He is average, but in this era, average point guards put up good #s. Sure, he's one of the better "average" PG's in the L, but he's not in the same class as the stars. If he was the 4th option on offense, he would be a fan favorite because of his occasional breakout 30pt games.

Id like to trade him, because I think his trade value is high right now, and I don't want another minutes log jam on our hands next year. If he is still with us, I won't be mad about it, because I agree that he is a good teammate and member of the community. But I would expect him to be the third option after Booker and Warren, and I would expect a big reduction in his minutes if we draft a point guard.

Stat searches are fun, especially when you have multiple levels. If you instead increase all of your numbers to 20/5/6 for your criteria, the only people in the entire league this year in that group are:
Harden
Russ
Curry
Lowry
Wall
Bledsoe

Out of 400 players, he is 1 of 6 that did this. And the names on that list are regarded as some of the best players in the league. Bledsoe has a higher eFG than Russ and Wall.

I don't think of Bledsoe as an elite PG, but he does have elite skills. They just aren't the elite skills we need right now.

[Shabazz]

Other than his age and his knees, my biggest issue with Bledsoe is his shakiness from 3. If he was a better 3 point shooter, we could transition a good portion of the offensive initiation to Booker over the next few seasons. Teams are more than content to let Bledsoe spot up as it stands, though.

[Split T]

I'd say Bledsoe has a few borderline elite skills. He can get to and finish and the rim at a pretty elite level. In fact he ranks 9th in drives per game and has the 11th highest fg% on drives to the rim. He's 13th overall in free throw attempts per game and 10th in free throw attempts on drives.

Interesting side note, of the top 10 players in drives per game, Bledsoe ranks 3rd in most likely to pass the ball on a drive. Dragic is 1st and, surprisingly, dion waiters is 2nd.

[O_Gardino]

Stat searches are fun, especially when you have multiple levels. If you instead increase all of your numbers to 20/5/6 for your criteria, the only people in the entire league this year in that group are:
Harden
Russ
Curry
Lowry
Wall
Bledsoe

Out of 400 players, he is 1 of 6 that did this. And the names on that list are regarded as some of the best players in the league. Bledsoe has a higher eFG than Russ and Wall.

I don't think of Bledsoe as an elite PG, but he does have elite skills. They just aren't the elite skills we need right now.

I agree; this is fun.

That argument is basically the same thing McD says in his end of season interview. The only other guys doing this are allstars. I reduced the numbers because Chris Paul (And curry, who only got 4.5 rebounds) aren't on the list, therefore it must not be a great determinant of point guard play. My list includes guys like Walker who is one assist and one rebound short of, but scores more on more efficient shooting.

[Split T]

I think Bledsoe is a tier 3 PG, Tier 1 is Harden, Curry, Westbrook, and Paul. Tier 2 is Wall, IT, Lowry, Lillard, and Kyrie. That puts Bledsoe with Conley, Dragic, and Kemba in tier 3.

[Superbone]

For me, Conley is at least tier 2 and approaching tier 1.

[Split T]

I think he's a borderline tier 2, but outside of maybe kyrie, I think everyone in tier 2 is clearly better. Conley is pretty clearly the best of the tier 3 pg's though, IMO.

[O_Gardino]

I think Bledsoe is a tier 3 PG, Tier 1 is Harden, Curry, Westbrook, and Paul. Tier 2 is Wall, IT, Lowry, Lillard, and Kyrie. That puts Bledsoe with Conley, Dragic, and Kemba in tier 3.

I mostly agree with that. I'd add Jrue Holiday and Jeff Teague to tier 3. Where do healthy Rose and Rondo fit at this point in their careers? I think that in a playoff series either of those guys could still be tier 2, and I think Tony Parker can still be tier 3 in a playoff series.

It's a god time to be a point guard.

[Split T]

I think holiday is the next best pg, I'd almost consider him tier 3. Rondo and Parker may step up at times, but they really aren't that close to dragic, Kemba, or bled anymore. And I think rose is done.

[The Bobster]

Bledsoe would be the absolute perfect 3rd guard.

[Superbone]

Bledsoe would be the absolute perfect 3rd guard.

You mean like he was on the Clippers?

[Split T]

Bledsoe would be the absolute perfect 3rd guard.

If you could get him to accept that, then ya, he'd be great, but he's a lot better than 3rd guard status. There are 60 starting guards in the league, can you even name 15 guards in the NBA better than him? I think he's right about 15th. The 10 pg's I previously named and then Derozan, McCollum, Thompson, and Beal.

[The Bobster]

Bledsoe would be the absolute perfect 3rd guard.

You mean like he was on the Clippers?

Yep, but even more so now.

[O_Gardino]

Bledsoe would be the absolute perfect 3rd guard.

If you could get him to accept that, then ya, he'd be great, but he's a lot better than 3rd guard status. There are 60 starting guards in the league, can you even name 15 guards in the NBA better than him? I think he's right about 15th. The 10 pg's I previously named and then Derozan, McCollum, Thompson, and Beal.

It's hard to be convinced that he's actually better than guys like Teague, when Bed gets way more plays for himself on a way worse team. And next season, I think Booker will be better.

[Mori Chu]

Bledsoe's destiny is to be exactly what he is: starting PG on a bad team. He's too good to come off the bench, and he's not good enough to lead a team to contention. He's just good enough not to help us get where we need to go.