Suns News: The Offseason

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

Post by pickle »

In2ition wrote:
pickle wrote:
In2ition wrote:I know some of you guys are opposed to this, but I hope the Suns get one of the top 2 pgs in the draft, and then they can go after Butler, George or Hayward. I like Warren, but I'm worried about him improving his outside shot and why he had his mysterious head injury. Also think he would be best served off the bench in a 6th man role, but hope he doesn't turtle head in that role like what happened to Knight.
I also don't think PG13 is a mature leader, don't want that headache on our team. I don't really want to take on these 27-29 year old max contract guys since our own players are mostly in the 20-25 range. These guys will quickly take us to playoff contention but I don't see any of them bringing us to the promised land, unless they age like Dirk and can still offer elite shooting/defense/playmaking when they are 33. But at that age, I'm afraid their contracts will become the roadblock to our building efforts. Last summer I was excited that PG13 was possibly available. This summer, I no longer have any interest.
I wonder how much is just an act as he wants out of Indy. I do like Paul George's game, but would be hesitant with rumors that he's hell bent on going to the Lakers asap.
What's to say that he won't be wanting out of Phoenix in a couple of years? I just don't see our team as this hot destination that can help bring a star who isn't already a top 5 player in the league to the promised land.

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

Post by pickle »

In2ition wrote:Is there anyone available or possibly available that you'd bring in? It seems if they don't take advantage of cap room this year, they won't really be able to later if their young players all develop like we hope.
I really like Ingles, wonder if he/Warren/Booker could form a solid 2/3 swing rotation. Maybe he can start and complement Booker and whomever we trot out at the pg position, and have Warren come in as the microwave 6th man.

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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

Post by In2ition »

pickle wrote:
In2ition wrote:
pickle wrote:
In2ition wrote:I know some of you guys are opposed to this, but I hope the Suns get one of the top 2 pgs in the draft, and then they can go after Butler, George or Hayward. I like Warren, but I'm worried about him improving his outside shot and why he had his mysterious head injury. Also think he would be best served off the bench in a 6th man role, but hope he doesn't turtle head in that role like what happened to Knight.
I also don't think PG13 is a mature leader, don't want that headache on our team. I don't really want to take on these 27-29 year old max contract guys since our own players are mostly in the 20-25 range. These guys will quickly take us to playoff contention but I don't see any of them bringing us to the promised land, unless they age like Dirk and can still offer elite shooting/defense/playmaking when they are 33. But at that age, I'm afraid their contracts will become the roadblock to our building efforts. Last summer I was excited that PG13 was possibly available. This summer, I no longer have any interest.
I wonder how much is just an act as he wants out of Indy. I do like Paul George's game, but would be hesitant with rumors that he's hell bent on going to the Lakers asap.
What's to say that he won't be wanting out of Phoenix in a couple of years? I just don't see our team as this hot destination that can help bring a star who isn't already a top 5 player in the league to the promised land.
When was the last time a top 5 player has been signed away by the Suns? I don't think you need a top 5 player to help turn this team around quickly. It just needs to be right fit and role.
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pickle
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

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In2ition wrote:
Cap wrote:
Split T wrote:As long as we don't go crazy on an offer for Len, we should still have cap space in 2018.
Warren doesn't look like he's going to be a cap buster either. In 2019, Booker could become our first max and still leave considerable room.
Warren already looks like he's going to be a 20+ point scorer in the league, and he's been improving his rebounding and defense. If he adds a consistent 3 to his game, he might get close to the max.
He's got a long way to go on defense to command a max I think. I remember some statistics that put him toward the absolute bottom in the league in DBPM or some such. The eye test isn't as bad, but until he gets up to actual average on defense, I don't think the league is crazy enough to throw a max at him. Except for maybe Brooklyn.

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

Post by pickle »

In2ition wrote:
pickle wrote:
What's to say that he won't be wanting out of Phoenix in a couple of years? I just don't see our team as this hot destination that can help bring a star who isn't already a top 5 player in the league to the promised land.
When was the last time a top 5 player has been signed away by the Suns? I don't think you need a top 5 player to help turn this team around quickly. It just needs to be right fit and role.
What I mean is, those three guys, Butler, George, and Hayward, if they move anywhere, they are likely to want to go to a team that helps improve their chances at contending, and we are not that team. We are not likely to contend for anything unless we get a top 5 player. I'm not advocating that we get a top 5 player, simply saying people are not taking discounts to sign with us like in the Colangelo years anymore, and if we had to twist their arms to get them to come here, then I'm worried that they'll pout and pull more of this "act" to get out of here.

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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

Post by In2ition »

pickle wrote:
In2ition wrote:
Cap wrote:
Split T wrote:As long as we don't go crazy on an offer for Len, we should still have cap space in 2018.
Warren doesn't look like he's going to be a cap buster either. In 2019, Booker could become our first max and still leave considerable room.
Warren already looks like he's going to be a 20+ point scorer in the league, and he's been improving his rebounding and defense. If he adds a consistent 3 to his game, he might get close to the max.
He's got a long way to go on defense to command a max I think. I remember some statistics that put him toward the absolute bottom in the league in DBPM or some such. The eye test isn't as bad, but until he gets up to actual average on defense, I don't think the league is crazy enough to throw a max at him. Except for maybe Brooklyn.
Leonard might look average on defense on this team. It's going to take an improvement from everyone to start seeing the stats show a positive on defense from anyone, IMO.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

Post by pickle »

I think Leonard might be a bit extreme, but I take your point, that one or two guys can't easily fix our problems and Warren's defensive woes are exaggerated statistically.

In terms of team building, I prefer going after guys who build their games on D who aren't Roberson-level on offense. This is why I've been pimping Ingles repeatedly. I've always liked him, especially since he's brought his 3 point percentage up to 44%, and what he did to Redick in game one was amazing.

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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

Post by Superbone »

The Bobster wrote:Steve Albert was miles ahead of Tom Leander, I really hope they think about moving him back into that spot.

They could re-work the entire broadcasting crew with the exception of McCoy and EJ as far as I'm concerned.
Is that first sentence a typo? Otherwise, it contradicts itself.
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

Post by Superbone »

In2ition wrote:
The Bobster wrote:Steve Albert was miles ahead of Tom Leander, I really hope they think about moving him back into that spot.

They could re-work the entire broadcasting crew with the exception of McCoy and EJ as far as I'm concerned.
I didn't mind Leander so much, he just had a couple sayings that were annoying. Every time he said "free for 3" I thought he said "3 for 3", and was excited for the run of good shooting only to find out that was his first shot or something like that.
If Leander could get rid of his cheesy sayings, I'd probably like him more. They just seem so jarring to me.
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

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There are interesting UFA pieces that would improve us a lot, like Griffin, Millsap, Hayward, Iggy or Ibaka. Then there are some RFA that could make sense, like KCP, JaMychal Green, Porter, Mirotic/Olynyk/Lauvergne.

But I think this FA class is not for us. Those UFAs won't consider PHX and the RFAs are an overpay by default. In the end, barring a real godfather scenario, I think we need to be patient. Draft well, trade Bledsoe and Chandler, dump Knight, move on from Len.

I'd be tempted to strike at 12:01, make a max offer and force Van Gundy's hand with KCP, whose elite 3D potential at SG/SF, is perfect alongside Booker, but that's basically all I'd entertain this summer (and DET would probably match anyways).

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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

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KCP sucks, has 1 good game out of like 5. I don't think there are FAs that would do much for us and I wouldn't overpay for a RFA like Porter. I wouldn't max Hayward either. Depending on our pick, I'd look to move Bleds and definitely Knight. I'm up in the air on Chandler because I like his veteran presence and he can help the young guys defensively, but if the Cs come calling with maybe Jae Crowder and a good pick, I'd probably move him.

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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

Post by carey »

There's no untouchables on this roster except Booker. Anyone can be moved in a package for desperately needed talent upgrades & I'm o.k. with that for the first time in a while. I do think we're building something but I've seen a lot of bad basketball over the last several years so I'm not married to keeping anyone except current jersey #1.
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

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Superbone wrote:
In2ition wrote:
The Bobster wrote:Steve Albert was miles ahead of Tom Leander, I really hope they think about moving him back into that spot.

They could re-work the entire broadcasting crew with the exception of McCoy and EJ as far as I'm concerned.
I didn't mind Leander so much, he just had a couple sayings that were annoying. Every time he said "free for 3" I thought he said "3 for 3", and was excited for the run of good shooting only to find out that was his first shot or something like that.
If Leander could get rid of his cheesy sayings, I'd probably like him more. They just seem so jarring to me.
Leander is OK in the right pairing. As was Albert.

When Albert was paired with Ann Myers Drysdale ... ugh. They'd tell all sorts of pointless stories and forget to update the action. It was brutal.
Window is open again ... blue skies ahead?

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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

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If there's a way to get Porzingis from the Knicks, we should absolutely try. He's a stud.

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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

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ShelC wrote:If there's a way to get Porzingis from the Knicks, we should absolutely try. He's a stud.
There isn't. Unless Phil Jackson is a nut, which he may be.
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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

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He said no one's untouchable and Porzingis blew off their exit meeting. If we swap picks with them? Knicks are hard up to get Fultz or Ball....just sayin.

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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

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Superbone wrote:
In2ition wrote:
The Bobster wrote:Steve Albert was miles ahead of Tom Leander, I really hope they aren't thinking about moving him back into that spot.

They could re-work the entire broadcasting crew with the exception of McCoy and EJ as far as I'm concerned.
I didn't mind Leander so much, he just had a couple sayings that were annoying. Every time he said "free for 3" I thought he said "3 for 3", and was excited for the run of good shooting only to find out that was his first shot or something like that.
If Leander could get rid of his cheesy sayings, I'd probably like him more. They just seem so jarring to me.
It was.

Leander was never ready for the Suns job when he got it and he was over-matched.
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

Post by O_Gardino »

ShelC wrote:He said no one's untouchable and Porzingis blew off their exit meeting. If we swap picks with them? Knicks are hard up to get Fultz or Ball....just sayin.
I would love to land KP.
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pickle
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

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ShelC wrote:KCP sucks, has 1 good game out of like 5. I don't think there are FAs that would do much for us and I wouldn't overpay for a RFA like Porter. I wouldn't max Hayward either. Depending on our pick, I'd look to move Bleds and definitely Knight. I'm up in the air on Chandler because I like his veteran presence and he can help the young guys defensively, but if the Cs come calling with maybe Jae Crowder and a good pick, I'd probably move him.
Um, I'd do that deal yesterday. There's no way the Cs are *that* desperate for rebounding.

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pickle
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Re: Suns News: The Offseason

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Ring_Wanted wrote:There are interesting UFA pieces that would improve us a lot, like Griffin, Millsap, Hayward, Iggy or Ibaka. Then there are some RFA that could make sense, like KCP, JaMychal Green, Porter, Mirotic/Olynyk/Lauvergne.

But I think this FA class is not for us. Those UFAs won't consider PHX and the RFAs are an overpay by default. In the end, barring a real godfather scenario, I think we need to be patient. Draft well, trade Bledsoe and Chandler, dump Knight, move on from Len.

I'd be tempted to strike at 12:01, make a max offer and force Van Gundy's hand with KCP, whose elite 3D potential at SG/SF, is perfect alongside Booker, but that's basically all I'd entertain this summer (and DET would probably match anyways).
I wouldn't touch any of those UFA guys. I like Hayward but like I posted earlier I don't think his timeline fits ours and I don't see him being interested in us anyway. I like JaMychal Green, Porter, and Olynyk. We won't be getting Porter as he's probably getting a max offer and the Wizards would be foolish not to match up; Green is a nice piece but plays the same position as Chriss and Bender and at this point I want those guys to each get 30 mpg next year if at all possible; and Olynyk I'd definitely try to get if we can somehow move on from one of Chandler/Len.

Also wouldn't make that max offer to KCP, because, well, what if they don't match? I just don't think we are at the development timeline to be offering max contracts to anybody right now. Maybe in a couple of years when our young guys have had some seasoning and we truly feel that our window of contention is opening, then swoop in and get someone who can round out the roster and really help carry this team late into the post season. Until then, let's let the young guys develop, give them proper veteran guidance, and get a couple more lottery picks.

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