2017 Suns NBA Draft (4th, 32nd, 54th)

[Cap]

Character gets you through tough times. And it also gets you through adversity...

Typical Watson. And also the kind of thing he usually says.

[Split T]

Here's Isaac's strengths video from draft express. As perhaps the foremost anti-tatum poster on the board, I enjoyed the 3 or 4 clips of Isaac defending tatum in this video

[youtube][/youtube]

[TOO]

Character gets you through tough times. And it also gets you through adversity...

He is forever E Dubya to me now. Thank you.

[TOO]

Here's Isaac's strengths video from draft express. As perhaps the foremost anti-tatum poster on the board, I enjoyed the 3 or 4 clips of Isaac defending tatum in this video

[youtube][/youtube]

Bah. Lol. I can't get the video to post right but there is a nice video of the Tatum/Isaac vid from their 2nd meeting. Tatum definitely looks better between the 2 there.

[Shabazz]

I like that both Jackson and Isaac play really hard. They also have a lot of defensive versatility.

Isaac pros vs. Jackson:
- His shot is much closer to being an NBA plus. Much prettier release. Nice form.
- Ridiculous length (Jackson has a mediocre wingspan)
- better defensive rebounder (needed if the idea is to pair with 2 poor D rebounders in Chriss and Bender)
- Can cover 1-5 (Jackson can maybe cover 1-4)

Jackson pros vs. Isaac:
- Much better at creating offense for himself and others (although not necessarily better at finishing).
- More natural offensive fit next to PG/Booker/Chriss/Warren
- More star potential
- Higher floor

I think I'd lean Jackson if it was between the two of them. We already have a potentially "Elite Role Player" in Bender. My preference would be to swing for the fences a little more on this pick.

[rhylek]

Being a foreigner, living in Belgium and not following the NCAA or any news related, I don't know much about it but people keep talking about how Ball' stock could fall because of his father, could this hurt Jackson's as well? (just saw the link in twitter - sorry if it's been already posted)

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... 338391001/

Well, don't just stand there! Tell us all about Ntilikina! Is he a quiet stud, or is he a Belgian Waffle?



Welcome, my friend.

Thank you
I don't usually post here because I'm not able to watch a lot of games and, being on a different timezone, everything is already said when I connect.

Regarding Ntikilina, I can't say a lot of things. Actually he was born in Belgium, near Brussels but he moved to France when he was 3. He learned to play in Strasbourg and played professionaly there. I didn't see any games since the french league is not available here. Only the Belgian one, which is not great.

From what I've read, he's of course compared to Tony Parker but his trainer disagree, explaining that he has a better shot but he's not as quick nor good on 1-on-1 situations.
Still, he was member of the U-16 and U-18 french squad and was named MVP of the U-18 european championship last year.

[O_Gardino]

Being a foreigner, living in Belgium and not following the NCAA or any news related, I don't know much about it but people keep talking about how Ball' stock could fall because of his father, could this hurt Jackson's as well? (just saw the link in twitter - sorry if it's been already posted)

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... 338391001/

Well, don't just stand there! Tell us all about Ntilikina! Is he a quiet stud, or is he a Belgian Waffle?



Welcome, my friend.

Thank you
I don't usually post here because I'm not able to watch a lot of games and, being on a different timezone, everything is already said when I connect.

Regarding Ntikilina, I can't say a lot of things. Actually he was born in Belgium, near Brussels but he moved to France when he was 3. He learned to play in Strasbourg and played professionaly there. I didn't see any games since the french league is not available here. Only the Belgian one, which is not great.

From what I've read, he's of course compared to Tony Parker but his trainer disagree, explaining that he has a better shot but he's not as quick nor good on 1-on-1 situations.
Still, he was member of the U-16 and U-18 french squad and was named MVP of the U-18 european championship last year.

Thanks for the report. I didn't realize he moved to France so young. I've read about his explosion in the U-18 european championship last year, but the contrast vs Parker is in interesting take.

[Flagrant Fowl]

IIRC, Parker couldn't shoot at all when he came into the league. For several years the book on him was to pack the paint and bait him into taking jump shots.

[Split T]

IIRC, Parker couldn't shoot at all when he came into the league. For several years the book on him was to pack the paint and bait him into taking jump shots.

That's mostly been the plan his whole career, he got better as a shooter, but his strength was getting to the rim and those little floaters

[In2ition]

IIRC, Parker couldn't shoot at all when he came into the league. For several years the book on him was to pack the paint and bait him into taking jump shots.

That's mostly been the plan his whole career, he got better as a shooter, but his strength was getting to the rim and those little floaters

He has elite skills of making shots in the paint with the trees, and added a deadly mid-range shot that was non existent early in his career. It's good to have the best shooting coach in the NBA.

[JCSunsfan]

Jackson's three point stats from college are decent. Is the knock on his shooting because of his free throw shooting? I know some think that free throw shooting is a better indication of outside shooting in the pros than a player's college three point stats. I tend to differ. I think it can be, but it depends on the player and why he is struggling with his free throws. Some players have difficulty mentally with the dead still circumstances of the free throw, or they just are more instinctive and tend to shoot better in the flow. For some, it is an indicator because they have a problem with minute repetitive motion. They just cannot be consistent.

[ShelC]

FT shooting is usually an indicator of one's ability to shoot. Even if they can't hit the 3 in college, but shoot in the 70s+ from the line, the form and consistency is there. Jackson's form is shaky and he moved his hand to the left side of his head when he shoots. He shoots well in rhythm, but I have my doubts about his ability to be a consistent perimeter threat.

[Flagrant Fowl]

Jackson, Tatum and Isaac are all interesting prospects at #4.

Jackson: Elite athlete, shaky decision making, only viable on the wing.
Best case scenario: Andrew Wiggins. Worst case scenario: Corey Brewer.

Tatum: NBA ready body and ball skills, often disappears, small ball 4 potential.
Best case scenario: Carmelo Anthony (without the ego). Worst case scenario: Thabo Sefolosha.

Isaac: Elite athlete, needs a lot more coaching, can eventually guard 2-5.
Best case scenario: Blake Griffin. Worst case scenario: Derrick Favors.

I still like Fox the most, but that's partially because I think they should trade Bledsoe. If they're keeping Bledsoe, and Fox is off the table, I'm probably going with Tatum right now.

[Split T]

Jackson's three point stats from college are decent. Is the knock on his shooting because of his free throw shooting? I know some think that free throw shooting is a better indication of outside shooting in the pros than a player's college three point stats. I tend to differ. I think it can be, but it depends on the player and why he is struggling with his free throws. Some players have difficulty mentally with the dead still circumstances of the free throw, or they just are more instinctive and tend to shoot better in the flow. For some, it is an indicator because they have a problem with minute repetitive motion. They just cannot be consistent.

He was pretty inconsistent as a shooter before he got to Kansas. The numbers look good during his year at Kansas, but he struggled a bit early on and a hot streak at the end of the season bumped his numbers up. The question is if the end of the season increase is an actual improvement or just a hot streak. The poor ft%, in theory, would indicate that the 3pt shooting is somewhat fluky.

[Split T]

My thoughts on Tatum vs Isaac vs Jackson:

First off, I know you're supposed to take the best player regardless of need, but I think it's quite silly to disregard need. Sure, if one is clearly better than the other! You take them, but I don't see that as the case here. Fultz is the only top 8 prospect I see as clearly ahead of the others. I looked at our current wings(booker and Warren) and tried to come up with what they do well. If you made a simple checklist of what you want a wing player to do, you'd probably come up with

1. Create your own shot
2. Create for others
3. Shooting ability
4. Defending on the perimeter
5. Rebounding

Booker checks 1,2, & 3
Warren checks 1 & 5

Ideally we'd pair them with someone who checks 2,3,4, & 5

Tatum checks 1 & 5 right now
Isaac checks 4 & 5
Jackson checks 1,2,4, & 5

Tatum may in time check anther box or two, but Jackson checks almost every box right now. If his shot is for real, he's the perfect 3 alongside booker.

One other thing to note, adding another wing who doesn't defend could be risky.

[Flagrant Fowl]

That's an interesting way of thinking about how the players would fit in the current roster, but it's a bit too absolute for my liking. Obviously all three guys can do 1-5 to even a small degree, so a better way to use this type of evaluation would be to try to determine how well they can do each one comparatively.

For example, I think Tatum is the best shooter, but Isaac is the best rebounder. Jackson is probably the best face up distributor, but I think he's too risky with passes and driving shots a lot of the time.

In my opinion...

1. Create your own shot - Tatum, Jackson, Isaac
2. Create for others - Jackson, Tatum, Isaac
3. Shooting ability - Tatum, Jackson, Isaac
4. Defending on the perimeter - Jackson, Tatum/Isaac
5. Rebounding - Isaac, Jackson/Tatum

[In2ition]

Here is a comparison of stats http://www.tankathon.com/players/compar ... yson-tatum

I would have said that Isaac has is the best shooter out of the 3 and the best chance at being the best shooter long term when I evaluate their shooting form. He is the worst scorer and worst passer though.

[Split T]

That's an interesting way of thinking about how the players would fit in the current roster, but it's a bit too absolute for my liking. Obviously all three guys can do 1-5 to even a small degree, so a better way to use this type of evaluation would be to try to determine how well they can do each one comparatively.

For example, I think Tatum is the best shooter, but Isaac is the best rebounder. Jackson is probably the best face up distributor, but I think he's too risky with passes and driving shots a lot of the time.

In my opinion...

1. Create your own shot - Tatum, Jackson, Isaac
2. Create for others - Jackson, Tatum, Isaac
3. Shooting ability - Tatum, Jackson, Isaac
4. Defending on the perimeter - Jackson, Tatum/Isaac
5. Rebounding - Isaac, Jackson/Tatum

It's definitely not perfect, just a simple way to try and see who fits our current makeup the best. Although, even with your method, Jackson is first or 2nd in every category. Only things I'd change from your rankings is shooting ability( I think they are all about the same right now) and defense. Isaac is better than Tatum.

[Superbone]

I nearly punched my monitor when I saw those quotes from Watson.

So players' character doesn't mean anything to you guys? Did we learn nothing from the Morris bros? I'd think we would want to factor it in there. Jackson seems like the best fit but his past issues do give me pause. I'd hope we'd vet him really well. I'm glad Booker is going to be talking to these guys.

[Superbone]

'Bazz, Flagrant Fowl, and Split T, thanks for the nice breakdowns and comparisons. Good stuff!