Kyrie Irving Trade Countdown

[carey]

I'm relieved the Celtics finally gave up some of their treasure trove. I think we now have the best collection of assets in the league.

With no one on the market. For now anyway. I'm sure Cousins and even AD may become available down the line. CLE will shop Love as soon as LeBron bolts. They'll need to trim that salary fat quickly. If LAC isn't any good they will probably move on from DAJ. Same for Memphis and Marc Gasol but he is 32 now.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

This current string of post, makes me realize that there is no winner here, is a lose-lose trade.

The Cavs after this, are formally recognizing that This Is The Last Year, and that itself is a bad side history to start with. Lebron will be in PR damage control and Isaiah will struggle to adjust like he did here, because he knows Lebron is leaving and he is not getting resigned there, so you will have him in a Me-first mode. They got the pick, a huge win, but that only remarks the "back to the drawing table" mindset, they are not closing the gap with the Warriors after this trade, they are surrendering to it. I once told that we would see what the FO would prioritize, and is clear they are prioritizing the post-Lebron era while Bledsoe+Warren+MiaPick would have been the other way. Today this trade looks good, but a year from now, that just-freshly-drafted kid will be all they will have to show for this, because Crowder and Zizic will be on the trading block, with just about everybody else on that overpaid roster, they are expendable. It is no coincidence that both Lebron and Thomas are on their last year.

And Boston is likely to be a lot better, but not because of Kyrie, but because Stevens had been gifted with his man Hayward, whom I think is already featured in a big chapter of the playing book, and a full year after the Horford signing. These two teams really portrayed last year how big is the difference between a meh coach and an elite one; and it will get worse, once Lue fails into summoning Celtic-Thomas into the court, and Stevens puts Irving on sets that feature the best of him and hide the worse. But all this is on Stevens, not on Kyrie, they just reload the role Thomas was playing, and avoided to be cornered into maxim him out next year, but they did it on a price tag THREE times bigger, and surrendering a premium asset, if this were Phoenix, it would be #Lakers_Pick_Drama in the .Net Valley all over again. And if Irving leaves them after two years...

Both teams are saving face today because of the Names involved int the deal and the Media is helping them out big time on this, but neither team is clearly better because of it, and once the ping pong balls drop on this pick, on of the two sides is going to scream in pain (my guess, is that it will be Cleveland), and still, the non-screaming side would have little to celebrate.

Agreed. As of right now, neither team is demonstrably better.

But to you comment on the pick, even if it ends up as low as #8, you think Cleveland would count that as a loss?

Not precisely a loss, but I think they are banking big time on it. Only way they resign Thomas is with Lebron staying, and mostly because since they are capped out, basically they would HAVE to resign him, cornered on his Bird rights. And still, I doubt that Lebron puts IT in the same level that previous star sidekicks/partners: Wade, Bosh, Love, Irving (I think that is how he would rate them on decreasing order). So Lebron is leaving, Thomas won't be resigned,and the only Big Piece for life after Lebron will be that pick. That's why I think that unless is top 3 and provides an instant difference maker, they will be really bummed about it. Boston acknowledged this and cashed in early both on Thomas and the pick, but I think they overpaid for Irving, therefore they can't be considered winners. So Lose-lose deal here.

By taking our Bledsoe-Warren-MiaPick, they would have lost on the glamour, but would have had a more diversified risk on the returning pieces, either of them could be part of life after Lebron.

[Mori Chu]

I think they'd re-sign Thomas even if Lebron leaves. They'd just make it IT's team, along with Love (maybe) and Thompson and whomever they get with that 1st rounder.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

I think they'd re-sign Thomas even if Lebron leaves. They'd just make it IT's team, along with Love (maybe) and Thompson and whomever they get with that 1st rounder.

Cleveland got him at $6mill, and after the trade, they supposedly saved $29.1M in tax payments, going down from $78.4M to $49.3M just on TAX payments. Maxing Thomas and adding a likely Top5 pick salary slot will probably keep them paying tax bills (altough scratching off Lebron's salary will help a lot), with a team on the floor much less likely to reach the finals, even as open as the conference is. This is why I think it won't happen, altough the temptation of staying relevant will be very strong.

Are they willing to stay as repetitive tax-payer, with little chance to improve the roster? Keep in mind that penalties go up the longer you stay in luxury land, and it will be for IT, Love and little else, courtesy of Klutch Sports!!!

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/cap/

[O_Gardino]

I think they'd re-sign Thomas even if Lebron leaves. They'd just make it IT's team, along with Love (maybe) and Thompson and whomever they get with that 1st rounder.

Cleveland got him at $6mill, and after the trade, they supposedly saved $29.1M in tax payments, going down from $78.4M to $49.3M just on TAX payments. Maxing Thomas and adding a likely Top5 pick salary slot will probably keep them paying tax bills (altough scratching off Lebron's salary will help a lot), with a team on the floor much less likely to reach the finals, even as open as the conference is. This is why I think it won't happen, altough the temptation of staying relevant will be very strong.

Are they willing to stay as repetitive tax-payer, with little chance to improve the roster? Keep in mind that penalties go up the longer you stay in luxury land, and it will be for IT, Love and little else, courtesy of Klutch Sports!!!

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/cap/

If they actually used Love and ran plays, that is still a playoff team in the east. They had a very apathetic season last year, but the role players aren't as bad as they looked.

[O_Gardino]

And still, I doubt that Lebron puts IT in the same level that previous star sidekicks/partners: Wade, Bosh, Love, Irving (I think that is how he would rate them on decreasing order).

Where does Boozer fit in there?

[Indy]

This current string of post, makes me realize that there is no winner here, is a lose-lose trade.

The Cavs after this, are formally recognizing that This Is The Last Year, and that itself is a bad side history to start with. Lebron will be in PR damage control and Isaiah will struggle to adjust like he did here, because he knows Lebron is leaving and he is not getting resigned there, so you will have him in a Me-first mode. They got the pick, a huge win, but that only remarks the "back to the drawing table" mindset, they are not closing the gap with the Warriors after this trade, they are surrendering to it. I once told that we would see what the FO would prioritize, and is clear they are prioritizing the post-Lebron era while Bledsoe+Warren+MiaPick would have been the other way. Today this trade looks good, but a year from now, that just-freshly-drafted kid will be all they will have to show for this, because Crowder and Zizic will be on the trading block, with just about everybody else on that overpaid roster, they are expendable. It is no coincidence that both Lebron and Thomas are on their last year.

And Boston is likely to be a lot better, but not because of Kyrie, but because Stevens had been gifted with his man Hayward, whom I think is already featured in a big chapter of the playing book, and a full year after the Horford signing. These two teams really portrayed last year how big is the difference between a meh coach and an elite one; and it will get worse, once Lue fails into summoning Celtic-Thomas into the court, and Stevens puts Irving on sets that feature the best of him and hide the worse. But all this is on Stevens, not on Kyrie, they just reload the role Thomas was playing, and avoided to be cornered into maxim him out next year, but they did it on a price tag THREE times bigger, and surrendering a premium asset, if this were Phoenix, it would be #Lakers_Pick_Drama in the .Net Valley all over again. And if Irving leaves them after two years...

Both teams are saving face today because of the Names involved int the deal and the Media is helping them out big time on this, but neither team is clearly better because of it, and once the ping pong balls drop on this pick, on of the two sides is going to scream in pain (my guess, is that it will be Cleveland), and still, the non-screaming side would have little to celebrate.

Agreed. As of right now, neither team is demonstrably better.

But to you comment on the pick, even if it ends up as low as #8, you think Cleveland would count that as a loss?

Not precisely a loss, but I think they are banking big time on it. Only way they resign Thomas is with Lebron staying, and mostly because since they are capped out, basically they would HAVE to resign him, cornered on his Bird rights. And still, I doubt that Lebron puts IT in the same level that previous star sidekicks/partners: Wade, Bosh, Love, Irving (I think that is how he would rate them on decreasing order). So Lebron is leaving, Thomas won't be resigned,and the only Big Piece for life after Lebron will be that pick. That's why I think that unless is top 3 and provides an instant difference maker, they will be really bummed about it. Boston acknowledged this and cashed in early both on Thomas and the pick, but I think they overpaid for Irving, therefore they can't be considered winners. So Lose-lose deal here.

By taking our Bledsoe-Warren-MiaPick, they would have lost on the glamour, but would have had a more diversified risk on the returning pieces, either of them could be part of life after Lebron.

If Lebron is leaving no matter what, and Kyrie clearly wanted to leave, turning that into a high lotto pick is pretty good (even if they don't resign IT). If I were the Cavs and I was planning for LALA (life after lebron again) and knowing Kyrie didn't want to play there, I would have done the BOS deal over the Suns deal every day. Bledsoe isn't someone you want to sign into his 30s, and Warren is a fine young player, but nobody around the league is counting on him to do too much. So it comes down to that pick. My bet is the Nets pick is much better.

[carey]

I want to flip Bledsoe and another piece to Cleveland for a bad salary and the Nets pick.

[O_Gardino]

I want to flip Bledsoe and another piece to Cleveland for a bad salary and the Nets pick.

Go for it! We won't stop you.

[Split T]

I want to flip Bledsoe and another piece to Cleveland for a bad salary and the Nets pick.

I'm not sure that nets pick will be that good. Lin/Russell/Crabbe/Carroll/Mozgov is a decent lineup. Booker, Lavert, RHJ are nice too and there is no reason to tank. They're better than Chicago and Atlanta for sure. Probably better than Orlando and possibly better than Indy and NY. If there the 6th worst team in the east, they're gonna get a lot of wins against the bottom 5 and will be ahead of Phoenix and LA too, maybe Dallas and Sacramento. That pick could easily be 7th to 10th.

[Wally_West]

A getting pick in that range for Bledsoe is still pretty good.

[carey]

I want to flip Bledsoe and another piece to Cleveland for a bad salary and the Nets pick.

I'm not sure that nets pick will be that good. Lin/Russell/Crabbe/Carroll/Mozgov is a decent lineup. Booker, Lavert, RHJ are nice too and there is no reason to tank. They're better than Chicago and Atlanta for sure. Probably better than Orlando and possibly better than Indy and NY. If there the 6th worst team in the east, they're gonna get a lot of wins against the bottom 5 and will be ahead of Phoenix and LA too, maybe Dallas and Sacramento. That pick could easily be 7th to 10th.

Strange. I think they are going to be bottom 5 unless everything lines up well for them. Carroll is washed because of his injury. Mozgov regressed to his mean last year. Crabbe is an overpaid role player. Lin and Russell are their best two players & they both need the ball to play their best. I guess we'll see. You're absolutely right that the East stinks. If everyone plays to their full capabilities they could do alright.

[Split T]

A getting pick in that range for Bledsoe is still pretty good.

I'm not so sure. Who's gonna be our PG? This draft doesn't really have any good ones. I also think we've got a real shot at DeMarcus Cousins if we keep Bledsoe. I know not everyone likes Cousins, but if we started next season with Bled/Booker/Jackson/Chriss/Cousins with Ulis/Reed/Warren/Bender/Williams off the bench I'd be very happy.

[Split T]

I want to flip Bledsoe and another piece to Cleveland for a bad salary and the Nets pick.

I'm not sure that nets pick will be that good. Lin/Russell/Crabbe/Carroll/Mozgov is a decent lineup. Booker, Lavert, RHJ are nice too and there is no reason to tank. They're better than Chicago and Atlanta for sure. Probably better than Orlando and possibly better than Indy and NY. If there the 6th worst team in the east, they're gonna get a lot of wins against the bottom 5 and will be ahead of Phoenix and LA too, maybe Dallas and Sacramento. That pick could easily be 7th to 10th.

Strange. I think they are going to be bottom 5 unless everything lines up well for them. Carroll is washed because of his injury. Mozgov regressed to his mean last year. Crabbe is an overpaid role player. Lin and Russell are their best two players & they both need the ball to play their best. I guess we'll see. You're absolutely right that the East stinks. If everyone plays to their full capabilities they could do alright.

Russell played really well off the ball last year when LA moved him. Crabbe is over paid but he shot 44% from 3 last year. He's going to help them.

You're right that their bigs suck, except maybe Booker, he's a nice role player. Mozgov and Carroll are probably done. But I think they have enough to be better than Atlanta, Chicago, Orlando, Indy and NY. Those teams have nothing too and you can't forget about the power of the tank. Brooklyn finished 9-9 last year and will feast on those tanking teams again next year and improve their record.

[O_Gardino]

A getting pick in that range for Bledsoe is still pretty good.

I'm not so sure. Who's gonna be our PG? This draft doesn't really have any good ones. I also think we've got a real shot at DeMarcus Cousins if we keep Bledsoe. I know not everyone likes Cousins, but if we started next season with Bled/Booker/Jackson/Chriss/Cousins with Ulis/Reed/Warren/Bender/Williams off the bench I'd be very happy.

I would hate watching that team, although it would sure get us to the playoffs. Assuming that Bled stays healthy and one of Chriss / Bender grows into something.

[Split T]

Why would you hate it? Cuz of cousins?

[Mori Chu]

I want to flip Bledsoe and another piece to Cleveland for a bad salary and the Nets pick.

This suggestion doesn't make any sense to me. Why would Cleveland give up a great asset like that Nets pick to get Bledsoe when they just acquired Isaiah Thomas? Neither guy would want to sit on the bench, and you can't really play them together.

[Indy]

I want to flip Bledsoe and another piece to Cleveland for a bad salary and the Nets pick.

This suggestion doesn't make any sense to me. Why would Cleveland give up a great asset like that Nets pick to get Bledsoe when they just acquired Isaiah Thomas? Neither guy would want to sit on the bench, and you can't really play them together.

Because it just might give them a better chance at keeping Lebron (in their minds). He has been advocating for Bledsoe for a while now.

[Cap]

I want to flip Bledsoe and another piece to Cleveland for a bad salary and the Nets pick.

This suggestion doesn't make any sense to me. Why would Cleveland give up a great asset like that Nets pick to get Bledsoe when they just acquired Isaiah Thomas? Neither guy would want to sit on the bench, and you can't really play them together.

It would be awesome. Then trade Love for Dragic and you're set.

[O_Gardino]

Why would you hate it? Cuz of cousins?

I wouldn't like the style that team would play, and I wouldn't feel like we had a real chance at the championship. Plus, we would still have a mismatched roster, with role players who are great on the move and stars who are great in the halfcourt.