O_Gardino wrote:Or you trade for or recruit a star.
I think this is a pretty unlikely scenario. Obviously I'd listen if something came up, but I can only imagine Cousins as a remote possibility (because of Bledsoe). Maybe Drummond, but he is looking more and more like fools' gold given his nonexistent effort on defense, stupid FT % and overall lack of polish. I guess there is perhaps Griffin, but he has been given the keys to LAC.
The issue remains that we are currently no a desirable destination. Not winning at all and not attractive enough of a city compared to the usual suspects. If Booker truly blows up, he could create star pull among the new generations, but other pieces would have to be in place, and we have very little in that regard. Another top notch prospect via 2018 draft is imperative in my opinion, so that's why I don't want to mess things up by winning an extra 10 games that leave us middle or late lotto.
O_Gardino wrote:Or you trade for or recruit a star.
I think this is a pretty unlikely scenario. Obviously I'd listen if something came up, but I can only imagine Cousins as a remote possibility (because of Bledsoe). Maybe Drummond, but he is looking more and more like fools' gold given his nonexistent effort on defense, stupid FT % and overall lack of polish. I guess there is perhaps Griffin, but he has been given the keys to LAC.
The issue remains that we are currently no a desirable destination. Not winning at all and not attractive enough of a city compared to the usual suspects. If Booker truly blows up, he could create star pull among the new generations, but other pieces would have to be in place, and we have very little in that regard. Another top notch prospect via 2018 draft is imperative in my opinion, so that's why I don't want to mess things up by winning an extra 10 games that leave us middle or late lotto.
I agree that we are unlikely to get that star player next summer based on who is available, and I agree that I would rather get a very high pick in '18.
I just want to point out thtat that's not the only way to build a contender. in the early 90's we had a team that was built to make it to the second round of the playoffs at best, then we were able to bring in Barkley. We had a borderline playoff team with Marbury, and got Nash in free agency. etc.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan
O_Gardino wrote:I just want to point out thtat that's not the only way to build a contender. in the early 90's we had a team that was built to make it to the second round of the playoffs at best, then we were able to bring in Barkley. We had a borderline playoff team with Marbury, and got Nash in free agency. etc.
Well said. I think that given the horrendous Eastern conference this year, along with the incremental improvement from our young guys we are likely to end up with, say, the 8-10th draft pick at best. I don't think we should hope for the top #1 guys coming into the league, because we aren't going to come even close to getting them. We could finish 13-14th in the West but still finish ahead of lots of Eastern teams; that's how bad it is going to be.
O_Gardino wrote:I just want to point out thtat that's not the only way to build a contender. in the early 90's we had a team that was built to make it to the second round of the playoffs at best, then we were able to bring in Barkley. We had a borderline playoff team with Marbury, and got Nash in free agency. etc.
Well said. I think that given the horrendous Eastern conference this year, along with the incremental improvement from our young guys we are likely to end up with, say, the 8-10th draft pick at best. I don't think we should hope for the top #1 guys coming into the league, because we aren't going to come even close to getting them. We could finish 13-14th in the West but still finish ahead of lots of Eastern teams; that's how bad it is going to be.
Of course the Suns will have the advantage of playing all those teams in the West more often than the teams in the East do!
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I just want a top 5 pick (as of today). I don't need #1. Doncic, Bagley, Ayton, Porter and Bamba all seem like studs with all but Porter seeming to fit extremely well with our young core.
Shabazz wrote:I just want a top 5 pick (as of today). I don't need #1. Doncic, Bagley, Ayton, Porter and Bamba all seem like studs with all but Porter seeming to fit extremely well with our young core.
And yet Porter is probably the 1 out of all of them to fit with every team. You don't think a player with Durant type skills could fit with this young team? His skills are really fit proof in this day and age.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
Shabazz wrote:I just want a top 5 pick (as of today). I don't need #1. Doncic, Bagley, Ayton, Porter and Bamba all seem like studs with all but Porter seeming to fit extremely well with our young core.
And yet Porter is probably the 1 out of all of them to fit with every team. You don't think a player with Durant type skills could fit with this young team? His skills are really fit proof in this day and age.
I'm talking more from a position standpoint. We have TJ/JJ/Chris/Bender at the 3/4 and 4/5 already. Say you draft Porter and play him at 4 that means you slide one of Chriss or Bender to the 5. I don't think a Chriss/Porter or Bender/Porter frontcourt is viable defensively. However, Porter is a much better prospect than either of them, so I'm probably looking at it the wrong way.
I just think the other 4 fit better positionally with the young crew we have in place. Doncic can play the 1 on O and 3 on D (cross-matching with Jackson). Bamba, Ayton and Bagley are all more natural fits at the 5 with Chriss/Bender at 4.
O_Gardino wrote:I just want to point out thtat that's not the only way to build a contender. in the early 90's we had a team that was built to make it to the second round of the playoffs at best, then we were able to bring in Barkley. We had a borderline playoff team with Marbury, and got Nash in free agency. etc.
Well said. I think that given the horrendous Eastern conference this year, along with the incremental improvement from our young guys we are likely to end up with, say, the 8-10th draft pick at best. I don't think we should hope for the top #1 guys coming into the league, because we aren't going to come even close to getting them. We could finish 13-14th in the West but still finish ahead of lots of Eastern teams; that's how bad it is going to be.
Of course the Suns will have the advantage of playing all those teams in the West more often than the teams in the East do!
Bobster makes a good point. On top off that, The bottom of the East seems to have gotten better while the playoff teams got worse. So I think they have more middling teams this season.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan
O_Gardino wrote:I just want to point out thtat that's not the only way to build a contender. in the early 90's we had a team that was built to make it to the second round of the playoffs at best, then we were able to bring in Barkley. We had a borderline playoff team with Marbury, and got Nash in free agency. etc.
Well said. I think that given the horrendous Eastern conference this year, along with the incremental improvement from our young guys we are likely to end up with, say, the 8-10th draft pick at best. I don't think we should hope for the top #1 guys coming into the league, because we aren't going to come even close to getting them. We could finish 13-14th in the West but still finish ahead of lots of Eastern teams; that's how bad it is going to be.
Of course the Suns will have the advantage of playing all those teams in the West more often than the teams in the East do!
Bobster makes a good point. On top off that, The bottom of the East seems to have gotten better while the playoff teams got worse. So I think they have more middling teams this season.
Vegas usually isn't very far off when it comes to the top and bottom of the league. We are expected to be in the bottom 3-4. If anyone really thinks we are going to be picking 8-10 next summer, without a huge fall in the lottery, put money on it right now.
Indy wrote:
Vegas usually isn't very far off when it comes to the top and bottom of the league. We are expected to be in the bottom 3-4. If anyone really thinks we are going to be picking 8-10 next summer, without a huge fall in the lottery, put money on it right now.
Indy wrote:
Vegas usually isn't very far off when it comes to the top and bottom of the league. We are expected to be in the bottom 3-4. If anyone really thinks we are going to be picking 8-10 next summer, without a huge fall in the lottery, put money on it right now.
Never tell me the odds.
Our over/under is 28.5 games. The only teams with a lower over/under are Chicago (21.5) and Atlanta (25.5). We are tied with Brooklyn and Sacramento.
Indy wrote:
Vegas usually isn't very far off when it comes to the top and bottom of the league. We are expected to be in the bottom 3-4. If anyone really thinks we are going to be picking 8-10 next summer, without a huge fall in the lottery, put money on it right now.
Never tell me the odds.
Our over/under is 28.5 games. The only teams with a lower over/under are Chicago (21.5) and Atlanta (25.5). We are tied with Brooklyn and Sacramento.
The fan in me really wants to justify why we should be better than that. After all, just sitting Knight makes us a better team. That + growth from Book, Warren, Ulis, and the PFs should make us much improved.
On the other hand, we were on pace to win 27ish when we sat Bledsoe and committed to tanking. 27 wins while playing the veterans big minutes early in the season. If we really go all in on the youth movement, we are going to lose a few more just from rookie mistakes. With our 2nd unit already struggling with injury and the looming possibility that we trade Chandler or Bledsoe, it's hard to rationally justify how we could win 30 in the stacked west. We would need a couple of crazy breakout seasons.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan
Indy wrote:Exactly. It would have to be another year like Jeff's first year here. (And honestly, that actually set us back as a result).
One of the big problems with Jeff's first year here is that most of the productive members of the team were all in their late 20's. The team didn't have a high ceiling--but if this team overachieves, it will most likely be driven by the development of very young, raw players that have high potential ceilings.
Not saying that we will overachieve, but I am saying that this team overachieving would be seen as a much more positive sign of things to come than during the 2013-2014 season.
Indy wrote:Exactly. It would have to be another year like Jeff's first year here. (And honestly, that actually set us back as a result).
One of the big problems with Jeff's first year here is that most of the productive members of the team were all in their late 20's. The team didn't have a high ceiling--but if this team overachieves, it will most likely be driven by the development of very young, raw players that have high potential ceilings.
Not saying that we will overachieve, but I am saying that this team overachieving would be seen as a much more positive sign of things to come than during the 2013-2014 season.
I was thinking more about what it did to fan expectations, and owner expectations, making the team make some very stupid decisions that didn't help our future.
Shabazz wrote:I just want a top 5 pick (as of today). I don't need #1. Doncic, Bagley, Ayton, Porter and Bamba all seem like studs with all but Porter seeming to fit extremely well with our young core.
And yet Porter is probably the 1 out of all of them to fit with every team. You don't think a player with Durant type skills could fit with this young team? His skills are really fit proof in this day and age.
I'm talking more from a position standpoint. We have TJ/JJ/Chris/Bender at the 3/4 and 4/5 already. Say you draft Porter and play him at 4 that means you slide one of Chriss or Bender to the 5. I don't think a Chriss/Porter or Bender/Porter frontcourt is viable defensively. However, Porter is a much better prospect than either of them, so I'm probably looking at it the wrong way.
I just think the other 4 fit better positionally with the young crew we have in place. Doncic can play the 1 on O and 3 on D (cross-matching with Jackson). Bamba, Ayton and Bagley are all more natural fits at the 5 with Chriss/Bender at 4.
In the sense that the Suns are filled with 3's and 4's, I agree. I wouldn't scoff at Porter, but he wouldn't be my first 4 choices.
Porter was a good defender and could possibly be one in the NBA and a pairing of Porter and Bender has some good possibilities.
Hey, if Durant decided that he wants to sign a longterm deal with the Suns next year, I'm not going to hem and haw or even hesitate because of the number of wings and forwards on the roster.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann "Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass
Indy wrote:Exactly. It would have to be another year like Jeff's first year here. (And honestly, that actually set us back as a result).
One of the big problems with Jeff's first year here is that most of the productive members of the team were all in their late 20's. The team didn't have a high ceiling--but if this team overachieves, it will most likely be driven by the development of very young, raw players that have high potential ceilings.
Not saying that we will overachieve, but I am saying that this team overachieving would be seen as a much more positive sign of things to come than during the 2013-2014 season.
I was thinking more about what it did to fan expectations, and owner expectations, making the team make some very stupid decisions that didn't help our future.
Yeah, I totally agree that it led to some incredibly short-sighted management decisions that didn't need to happen (I feel like that sentence summed up most of the first decade of Sarver's ownership.
It makes you wonder how the Colangelos were so consistently successful for 40 years. I would have loved to see the moves that Jerry would have pushed for in the same situation, because he was never for tanking either, but I never felt that the Suns were a middling team as a result of his decisions.
Indy wrote:Exactly. It would have to be another year like Jeff's first year here. (And honestly, that actually set us back as a result).
One of the big problems with Jeff's first year here is that most of the productive members of the team were all in their late 20's. The team didn't have a high ceiling--but if this team overachieves, it will most likely be driven by the development of very young, raw players that have high potential ceilings.
Not saying that we will overachieve, but I am saying that this team overachieving would be seen as a much more positive sign of things to come than during the 2013-2014 season.
Very good point.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan
I tend to think Bled won't play more than 30 MPG, because Ulis will soak up close to 24 on a normal night. I also think there's a chance we win significantly more games than currently projected, even in a tough conference, simply because of the injection of Josh Jackson, the vastly diminished role of Len, and the fact that Brandon Knight will not play.
I think Josh Jackson will compete with Ben Simmons and Lonzo Ball for ROY honors.
If we stay relatively healthy from here on out, the Suns could surprise. I would like to see it, personally. It will be hard to get too pissed about missing out on another high draft pick in a year where we'll have five total. Plus, we still have that lottery ticket that may pay off in 2021.
