Suns News: Preseason 2017

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

Great, now Sarver will try to low-ball him on his next contract because he knows Booker likes being on a shitty team in Phoenix.
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Superbone »

I love seeing that. Pay the man!
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Superbone »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:Great, now Sarver will try to low-ball him on his next contract because he knows Booker likes being on a s*** team in Phoenix.
If Sarver alienates Booker, he will be run out of town on a rail.
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Superbone »

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/n ... 756128001/
Outsiders’ view

TNT held a conference call with NBA analysts Reggie Miller and Chris Webber on Wednesday to preview the season. Here’s what they had to say about the Suns:

Miller: “You build around Devin Booker. To me he is probably a top-five shooting guard at such a young age. You go out and draft a defensive specialist and all-around great player at Kansas in Josh Jackson. What are my expectations for the Phoenix Suns in the loaded Western Conference? They’re looking at a lottery pick again. It’s probably going to be hard knocks for the Phoenix Suns but they do have young talent in Booker and Jackson to build around.”

Webber: “Now is the time for Phoenix fans to earn their stripes so when success comes five, six, seven years down the road they can say don’t jump on the bandwagon. I think they’re building the right way. We’ve seen teams make a gamble after older players and maybe they handicap their franchise for the next two, three or four seasons. I think patience is something that can be appreciated. They’re going to need a lot of patience this year because it’s going to be trying times for a young team.”
They're pretty much right on. It's going to be an up and down season. Mostly down. But the light is at the end of the tunnel. If we can get one of the big names from the next draft, we'll then be ready to start our ascension into the upper ranks over the following seasons.
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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by ShelC »

Sorry if this has been posted already but I hadn't seen it. It's the annual SI league breakdown by anonymous scouts, which I love. It's pretty much a glass half empty take. I agree with a lot of it, especially about the direction, Bledsoe, Chriss and Bender.

https://www.si.com/nba/2017/10/11/nba-s ... bron-james
SUNS: WHAT IS THEIR DIRECTION?

I don’t see a direction for them. They added a lottery pick in Josh Jackson, but that was their entire summer. It’s like they want to be forgotten. They’re just praying that Devin Booker becomes a top five shooting guard. This is a pretty hopeless situation. . . . It’s hard to put together one single five-man lineup that gets you excited, mostly because their frontcourt is so thin. They can’t stop anyone. . . . Among the young prospects at his position, I think Booker is the best all-around scorer. He can score out of pick-and-rolls and isolations. He can catch-and-shoot. He has all those levels and layers. . . . How many guys really complement Booker and can be part of the core? Jackson, I guess, but not really anyone else. Dragan Bender and Marquese Chriss are both question marks after shaky rookie years. I’m not even a big Jackson fan. His defense, size and athleticism will help, but his shooting motion is a mess. . . . We’ve reached the point where you have to conclude that Eric Bledsoe can’t be the main guy for a winning team. He’s probably their best trade piece, but Brandon Knight falling off a cliff and getting injured again killed their ability to move Bledsoe. . . . Chriss and Bender both look disinterested at times. They’re too young to be checking out. Bender will have to play center; defending on the perimeter is a huge challenge for him. Chriss has a better body and physical tools, but I’d bet both are busts. Chriss has to improve his basketball IQ and awareness to have any shot. An unstructured environment like Phoenix was the worst place for him.

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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by specialsauce »

^^agreed on all counts except Jackson is going to be a star he is way off on him

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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by carey »

Also saying Bender is an awful perimeter defender is weird because that seems to be his best skill atm.
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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Superbone »

Also, there is no reason why we can't trade Bledsoe.
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Ring_Wanted »

Superbone wrote:Also, there is no reason why we can't trade Bledsoe.
Especially nothing relative to Knight. That was a weird idea.

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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Indy »

carey wrote:Also saying Bender is an awful perimeter defender is weird because that seems to be his best skill atm.
I think defending 4 and 5s on the perimeter, he is good at. But we seem to want him to switch onto 1s and 2s and guard them there too. He just isn't fast enough to do that (especially when it needs to be about communication and team defense at that point, and we SUCK at that).

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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by OE32 »

Indy wrote:
carey wrote:Also saying Bender is an awful perimeter defender is weird because that seems to be his best skill atm.
I think defending 4 and 5s on the perimeter, he is good at. But we seem to want him to switch onto 1s and 2s and guard them there too. He just isn't fast enough to do that (especially when it needs to be about communication and team defense at that point, and we SUCK at that).
It depends. If he can count on his teammates for help, or if it's later in the shot clock, sure, he can switch out onto guards on the perimeter. But a switch early in the shot clock, in an iso situation? Certainly better than, say, Chandler, or other prototypical centers, can. But no, it's not what you want.

Overall, Bender's defense is great. Right now, he's being tested, with coaches putting him in more and more difficult positions rather than game planning around 'known' strengths and weaknesses. Certainly not how a coaching staff will use him as he becomes a known quantity.

I think both Bender and Chriss have been impressive on the defensive end in preseason. They've both been pretty useless on offense, however, since they haven't been able to knock down the open three. Since our offense uses them to spread the floor, that's very problematic.

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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Indy »

OE32 wrote:
Indy wrote:
carey wrote:Also saying Bender is an awful perimeter defender is weird because that seems to be his best skill atm.
I think defending 4 and 5s on the perimeter, he is good at. But we seem to want him to switch onto 1s and 2s and guard them there too. He just isn't fast enough to do that (especially when it needs to be about communication and team defense at that point, and we SUCK at that).
It depends. If he can count on his teammates for help, or if it's later in the shot clock, sure, he can switch out onto guards on the perimeter. But a switch early in the shot clock, in an iso situation? Certainly better than, say, Chandler, or other prototypical centers, can. But no, it's not what you want.

Overall, Bender's defense is great. Right now, he's being tested, with coaches putting him in more and more difficult positions rather than game planning around 'known' strengths and weaknesses. Certainly not how a coaching staff will use him as he becomes a known quantity.

I think both Bender and Chriss have been impressive on the defensive end in preseason. They've both been pretty useless on offense, however, since they haven't been able to knock down the open three. Since our offense uses them to spread the floor, that's very problematic.
Great? Seeing potential in him is not the same thing as saying his defense right now is great. Nothing he does right now is even close to great. Nothing he does now is even close to average.

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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by O_Gardino »

Indy wrote:
OE32 wrote:
Indy wrote:
carey wrote:Also saying Bender is an awful perimeter defender is weird because that seems to be his best skill atm.
I think defending 4 and 5s on the perimeter, he is good at. But we seem to want him to switch onto 1s and 2s and guard them there too. He just isn't fast enough to do that (especially when it needs to be about communication and team defense at that point, and we SUCK at that).
It depends. If he can count on his teammates for help, or if it's later in the shot clock, sure, he can switch out onto guards on the perimeter. But a switch early in the shot clock, in an iso situation? Certainly better than, say, Chandler, or other prototypical centers, can. But no, it's not what you want.

Overall, Bender's defense is great. Right now, he's being tested, with coaches putting him in more and more difficult positions rather than game planning around 'known' strengths and weaknesses. Certainly not how a coaching staff will use him as he becomes a known quantity.

I think both Bender and Chriss have been impressive on the defensive end in preseason. They've both been pretty useless on offense, however, since they haven't been able to knock down the open three. Since our offense uses them to spread the floor, that's very problematic.
Great? Seeing potential in him is not the same thing as saying his defense right now is great. Nothing he does right now is even close to great. Nothing he does now is even close to average.
I'm with OE32. Bender is good at switching and keeping a smaller guy from driving, good at contesting shots on the perimeter, has good timing when going for a block, and he knows when to body up and when to back off. Overall, he played great defense for the youngest rookie in the league.
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by carey »

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2100 ... ns-2017-18
Phoenix trades Eric Bledsoe to (maybe) the Nuggets

This should happen, even if Bledsoe is (if you wish really hard) young enough at 27 to still be good when the Phoenix kiddos are ready to win. How about Emmanuel Mudiay, Darrell Arthur (present for salary-matching), Juancho Hernangomez and an unprotected Denver first-round pick?
Yes, yesterday! I'll take just Juancho and the pick!
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Indy »

O_Gardino wrote:
Indy wrote:
OE32 wrote:
Indy wrote:
carey wrote:Also saying Bender is an awful perimeter defender is weird because that seems to be his best skill atm.
I think defending 4 and 5s on the perimeter, he is good at. But we seem to want him to switch onto 1s and 2s and guard them there too. He just isn't fast enough to do that (especially when it needs to be about communication and team defense at that point, and we SUCK at that).
It depends. If he can count on his teammates for help, or if it's later in the shot clock, sure, he can switch out onto guards on the perimeter. But a switch early in the shot clock, in an iso situation? Certainly better than, say, Chandler, or other prototypical centers, can. But no, it's not what you want.

Overall, Bender's defense is great. Right now, he's being tested, with coaches putting him in more and more difficult positions rather than game planning around 'known' strengths and weaknesses. Certainly not how a coaching staff will use him as he becomes a known quantity.

I think both Bender and Chriss have been impressive on the defensive end in preseason. They've both been pretty useless on offense, however, since they haven't been able to knock down the open three. Since our offense uses them to spread the floor, that's very problematic.
Great? Seeing potential in him is not the same thing as saying his defense right now is great. Nothing he does right now is even close to great. Nothing he does now is even close to average.
I'm with OE32. Bender is good at switching and keeping a smaller guy from driving, good at contesting shots on the perimeter, has good timing when going for a block, and he knows when to body up and when to back off. Overall, he played great defense for the youngest rookie in the league.
"great for the youngest rookie in the league" << great defense overall

I'm not trying to be difficult, but great means great. I am glad we all have high expectations for the kid, but if you ask 100 professional NBA talent evaluaters to list all great defenders in the league, not one of them would put him on the list.

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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Indy »

carey wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2100 ... ns-2017-18
Phoenix trades Eric Bledsoe to (maybe) the Nuggets

This should happen, even if Bledsoe is (if you wish really hard) young enough at 27 to still be good when the Phoenix kiddos are ready to win. How about Emmanuel Mudiay, Darrell Arthur (present for salary-matching), Juancho Hernangomez and an unprotected Denver first-round pick?
Yes, yesterday! I'll take just Juancho and the pick!
Exactly. Do it. But I just can't see Ryan doing it. He seems too invested in Bledsoe, and Bledsoe seems too tied to the community outreach by the Suns.

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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by ShelC »

I don't have much of an interest in Mudiay at this point but he's still young and has good size and feel for the position. I just wonder if his confidence is shot and whether he can reset and get back to his game.

Bledsoe would be a good fit there with Harris, Chandler, Barton, Millsap and Jokic. And I've always said he may need a hardnosed coach who will tell him exactly what to do and when from the sidelines while in the halfcourt.

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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by O_Gardino »

Indy wrote:
O_Gardino wrote:
Indy wrote:
OE32 wrote:
Indy wrote: I think defending 4 and 5s on the perimeter, he is good at. But we seem to want him to switch onto 1s and 2s and guard them there too. He just isn't fast enough to do that (especially when it needs to be about communication and team defense at that point, and we SUCK at that).
It depends. If he can count on his teammates for help, or if it's later in the shot clock, sure, he can switch out onto guards on the perimeter. But a switch early in the shot clock, in an iso situation? Certainly better than, say, Chandler, or other prototypical centers, can. But no, it's not what you want.

Overall, Bender's defense is great. Right now, he's being tested, with coaches putting him in more and more difficult positions rather than game planning around 'known' strengths and weaknesses. Certainly not how a coaching staff will use him as he becomes a known quantity.

I think both Bender and Chriss have been impressive on the defensive end in preseason. They've both been pretty useless on offense, however, since they haven't been able to knock down the open three. Since our offense uses them to spread the floor, that's very problematic.
Great? Seeing potential in him is not the same thing as saying his defense right now is great. Nothing he does right now is even close to great. Nothing he does now is even close to average.
I'm with OE32. Bender is good at switching and keeping a smaller guy from driving, good at contesting shots on the perimeter, has good timing when going for a block, and he knows when to body up and when to back off. Overall, he played great defense for the youngest rookie in the league.
"great for the youngest rookie in the league" << great defense overall

I'm not trying to be difficult, but great means great. I am glad we all have high expectations for the kid, but if you ask 100 professional NBA talent evaluaters to list all great defenders in the league, not one of them would put him on the list.
Overall doesn't mean "above all other people", it means 'including all of the context'.
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by OE32 »

O_Gardino wrote:
Indy wrote:
O_Gardino wrote:
Indy wrote:
OE32 wrote:
It depends. If he can count on his teammates for help, or if it's later in the shot clock, sure, he can switch out onto guards on the perimeter. But a switch early in the shot clock, in an iso situation? Certainly better than, say, Chandler, or other prototypical centers, can. But no, it's not what you want.

Overall, Bender's defense is great. Right now, he's being tested, with coaches putting him in more and more difficult positions rather than game planning around 'known' strengths and weaknesses. Certainly not how a coaching staff will use him as he becomes a known quantity.

I think both Bender and Chriss have been impressive on the defensive end in preseason. They've both been pretty useless on offense, however, since they haven't been able to knock down the open three. Since our offense uses them to spread the floor, that's very problematic.
Great? Seeing potential in him is not the same thing as saying his defense right now is great. Nothing he does right now is even close to great. Nothing he does now is even close to average.
I'm with OE32. Bender is good at switching and keeping a smaller guy from driving, good at contesting shots on the perimeter, has good timing when going for a block, and he knows when to body up and when to back off. Overall, he played great defense for the youngest rookie in the league.
"great for the youngest rookie in the league" << great defense overall

I'm not trying to be difficult, but great means great. I am glad we all have high expectations for the kid, but if you ask 100 professional NBA talent evaluaters to list all great defenders in the league, not one of them would put him on the list.
Overall doesn't mean "above all other people", it means 'including all of the context'.
What O_G said.

This shit is pedantic yo.

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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Indy »

OE32 wrote:
O_Gardino wrote:
Indy wrote:
O_Gardino wrote:
Indy wrote: Great? Seeing potential in him is not the same thing as saying his defense right now is great. Nothing he does right now is even close to great. Nothing he does now is even close to average.
I'm with OE32. Bender is good at switching and keeping a smaller guy from driving, good at contesting shots on the perimeter, has good timing when going for a block, and he knows when to body up and when to back off. Overall, he played great defense for the youngest rookie in the league.
"great for the youngest rookie in the league" << great defense overall

I'm not trying to be difficult, but great means great. I am glad we all have high expectations for the kid, but if you ask 100 professional NBA talent evaluaters to list all great defenders in the league, not one of them would put him on the list.
Overall doesn't mean "above all other people", it means 'including all of the context'.
What O_G said.

This shit is pedantic yo.
[rant]There are a ton of us on here saying how great Bender is at this or that (I have been in this camp at times too). He isn't. He is in the bottom 3-4 players of the top 15 players taken that year (along with Chriss). Sure, he might turn into something. But he is so far from "great" at anything that I don't know why anyone would argue otherwise, except for being a homer. If we had taken Papa Johns, or Harnangomez, or even Sabonis, nobody on this board would be talking about Bender being great at anything. I guess I am just sick of us praising under-performers ("JJ is the next Scottie Pippen!") and making excuses ("but he is the best of the 19 year old rookies!") because we really hope they turn into something, instead of making good draft/FA decisions and building a good team.[/rant]

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