Suns News: Preseason 2017

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jonh
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by jonh »

Superbone wrote:Yup, extremely raw.
We should change our name to the Phoenix Sons.

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carey
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by carey »

This is the opening night roster with James & Peters confirmed to start on 2-way deals. Who would you get rid of in order to add a player if someone is waived we may have interest in?

1. Bledsoe
2. Booker
3. JJ
4. TJ
5. Chriss
6. Bender
7. Dudley
8. Len
9. Chandler
11. Sauce (injured.)
12. Ulis
13. DJJ
14. Daniels
15. Reed (injured.)
16. James
17. Peters
18. Knight (injured roster exempt.)
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carey
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by carey »

What's strange when I look at that roster is I see 14 decent players and 4 good ones. No one is awful. Yet, no one is an All-Star level player at this time. If we were looking at tiers I'd say no one on Tier 1, 2 on Tier 2, 2 on Tier 3, and the rest on Tier 4.
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carey
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

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carey wrote:This is the opening night roster with James & Peters confirmed to start on 2-way deals. Who would you get rid of in order to add a player if someone is waived we may have interest in?

1. Bledsoe
2. Booker
3. JJ
4. TJ
5. Chriss
6. Bender
7. Dudley
8. Len
9. Chandler
11. Sauce (injured.)
12. Ulis
13. DJJ
14. Daniels
15. Reed (injured.)
16. James
17. Peters
18. Knight (injured roster exempt.)
I messed up and forgot #10. So do we still have one more spot for Knight's roster exemption? Could we pick up Perry Jones if we wanted to?
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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

carey wrote:What's strange when I look at that roster is I see 14 decent players and 4 good ones. No one is awful. Yet, no one is an All-Star level player at this time. If we were looking at tiers I'd say no one on Tier 1, 2 on Tier 2, 2 on Tier 3, and the rest on Tier 4.
You are looking at them with eyes full of love, if such roster were actually real, we would be at least playoffs worthy

Assuming some tiers as follow:
Tier 1 Trascendent players
Tier 2 Perennial All-Stars (not precisely the voting thing, moreso highly respected for his impact around the league)
Tier 3 One year All Stars, but still annually productive players
Tier 4 Expendable role players, you will not stop a trade for them
Tier 5 Situational players and lineup complements
Tier 6 Roster fillers

For me, not even Booker is on Tier 2, he is highly heralded, but still away from arriving, until he actually will us into win some games. Bledose is fairly above average, but still could easily be out of Tier 3. Potential is all with our kids, but right now, most of them hardly cut above Tier 5. On their current state, we would not be keeping some of them beyond their rookie contracts.

Tier 1 None
Tier 2 None
Tier 3 Booker
Tier 4 Bledsoe, Warren, JJ
Tier 5 Chandler, Len, Daniels, Ulis, Williams, DJJ, James
Tier 6 Bender, Chriss, Dudley, Reed, Peters (most likely to get cut)

Intentionally leaving Knight out, he is a fallen 3 that went below 6

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O_Gardino
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by O_Gardino »

carey wrote:
carey wrote:This is the opening night roster with James & Peters confirmed to start on 2-way deals. Who would you get rid of in order to add a player if someone is waived we may have interest in?

1. Bledsoe
2. Booker
3. JJ
4. TJ
5. Chriss
6. Bender
7. Dudley
8. Len
9. Chandler
11. Sauce (injured.)
12. Ulis
13. DJJ
14. Daniels
15. Reed (injured.)
16. James
17. Peters
18. Knight (injured roster exempt.)
I messed up and forgot #10. So do we still have one more spot for Knight's roster exemption? Could we pick up Perry Jones if we wanted to?
I assume that we could pick someone up. I don't think we will unless we are bringing in a bad contract and a pick.
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carey
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by carey »

Aztec Sunsfan wrote: Assuming some tiers as follow:
Tier 1 Trascendent players
Tier 2 Perennial All-Stars (not precisely the voting thing, moreso highly respected for his impact around the league)
Tier 3 One year All Stars, but still annually productive players
Tier 4 Expendable role players, you will not stop a trade for them
Tier 5 Situational players and lineup complements
Tier 6 Roster fillers

For me, not even Booker is on Tier 2, he is highly heralded, but still away from arriving, until he actually will us into win some games. Bledose is fairly above average, but still could easily be out of Tier 3. Potential is all with our kids, but right now, most of them hardly cut above Tier 5. On their current state, we would not be keeping some of them beyond their rookie contracts.

Tier 1 None
Tier 2 None
Tier 3 Booker
Tier 4 Bledsoe, Warren, JJ
Tier 5 Chandler, Len, Daniels, Ulis, Williams, DJJ, James
Tier 6 Bender, Chriss, Dudley, Reed, Peters (most likely to get cut)

Intentionally leaving Knight out, he is a fallen 3 that went below 6
Yeah, I guess if I were a scout and could break down players into tiny subtle nuances I could fill out 10 tiers. What I see instead is no "superstars," no All-Stars, 2 good players, 2 fairly good players, and the rest all jumbled together depending on what skill set you focus on or value. Is Chriss really worse than Len or Daniels? Is DJJ better than Reed or Bender? And Peters actually looked like he wasn't totally clueless out there. 3-7 from the field and 2-5 from 3 in limited minutes.
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carey
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by carey »

Mike James pre-season. 13-25 FG, 3-6 3P, 15-17 FT for 11 ppg on 52% from the field & 2 apg in 16 mpg.

VS

Tyler Ulis pre-season. 14-41 FG, 3-8 3P, 7-10 FT for 7.6 ppg on 34% from the field & 3.4 apg in 20 mpg.
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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

carey wrote:
Aztec Sunsfan wrote: Assuming some tiers as follow:
Tier 1 Trascendent players
Tier 2 Perennial All-Stars (not precisely the voting thing, moreso highly respected for his impact around the league)
Tier 3 One year All Stars, but still annually productive players
Tier 4 Expendable role players, you will not stop a trade for them
Tier 5 Situational players and lineup complements
Tier 6 Roster fillers

For me, not even Booker is on Tier 2, he is highly heralded, but still away from arriving, until he actually will us into win some games. Bledose is fairly above average, but still could easily be out of Tier 3. Potential is all with our kids, but right now, most of them hardly cut above Tier 5. On their current state, we would not be keeping some of them beyond their rookie contracts.

Tier 1 None
Tier 2 None
Tier 3 Booker
Tier 4 Bledsoe, Warren, JJ
Tier 5 Chandler, Len, Daniels, Ulis, Williams, DJJ, James
Tier 6 Bender, Chriss, Dudley, Reed, Peters (most likely to get cut)

Intentionally leaving Knight out, he is a fallen 3 that went below 6
Yeah, I guess if I were a scout and could break down players into tiny subtle nuances I could fill out 10 tiers. What I see instead is no "superstars," no All-Stars, 2 good players, 2 fairly good players, and the rest all jumbled together depending on what skill set you focus on or value. Is Chriss really worse than Len or Daniels? Is DJJ better than Reed or Bender? And Peters actually looked like he wasn't totally clueless out there. 3-7 from the field and 2-5 from 3 in limited minutes.
Hopefully we get to see them all climb at least one tier, and some a couple or more. Potential send us upside down the charts, I have higher hopes for Reed than DJJ after summer league, but DJJ already showed that he can handle himself at NBA speed, something currently out of Bender’s reach per example.

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O_Gardino
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by O_Gardino »

carey wrote:Yeah, I guess if I were a scout and could break down players into tiny subtle nuances I could fill out 10 tiers. What I see instead is no "superstars," no All-Stars, 2 good players, 2 fairly good players, and the rest all jumbled together depending on what skill set you focus on or value. Is Chriss really worse than Len or Daniels? Is DJJ better than Reed or Bender? And Peters actually looked like he wasn't totally clueless out there. 3-7 from the field and 2-5 from 3 in limited minutes.
Good way to look at.

If Booker keeps growing like he did the last 2 years, he will be playing at allstar level by the end of the season. He would be an allstar int he east even if he didn't improve at all. Bledsoe may take a step back into the "fairly good" category. I like Peters; he's a smart player who can shoot. We don't know if his legs will be able to keep up in the NBA. I'm really bummed about Reed. I think if he was healthy, you would have him in the "fairly good" category. He can play. He's going to be very effective on both ends of the court.
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by O_Gardino »

carey wrote:Mike James pre-season. 13-25 FG, 3-6 3P, 15-17 FT for 11 ppg on 52% from the field & 2 apg in 16 mpg.

VS

Tyler Ulis pre-season. 14-41 FG, 3-8 3P, 7-10 FT for 7.6 ppg on 34% from the field & 3.4 apg in 20 mpg.
James is always going to put up better individual stats than Ullis. I think this team can use James, because we really need someone out there who attacks. He's better with a big passer, though. If James gets some playing time with Jackson, that could be a good pairing. Or if Bender grows into the passer we hope for, those two could make a solid pairing.

Ulis is always going to live by his +/-. It's never going to be about his individual stats. That said, he did have a rough preseason by that standard as well. He's just coming back from injury, so hopefully he gets his mojo back soon.
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Vladimir_Taltos »

I'm a firm believer that you have to build pragmatically...basing choices on what you have on the table for choices as you go. This requires continuous moments of opportunism, understanding your most significant weaknesses and always looking to improve in those areas.

For this team , right now, it is absolutely clear that the critical position is PG. We have a score first PG that isn't truly up to the task of making the team better on the floor, thus we don't know really what our youngsters are capable of.

It's time for an upgrade...

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

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Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
carey wrote:What's strange when I look at that roster is I see 14 decent players and 4 good ones. No one is awful. Yet, no one is an All-Star level player at this time. If we were looking at tiers I'd say no one on Tier 1, 2 on Tier 2, 2 on Tier 3, and the rest on Tier 4.
You are looking at them with eyes full of love, if such roster were actually real, we would be at least playoffs worthy

Assuming some tiers as follow:
Tier 1 Trascendent players
Tier 2 Perennial All-Stars (not precisely the voting thing, moreso highly respected for his impact around the league)
Tier 3 One year All Stars, but still annually productive players
Tier 4 Expendable role players, you will not stop a trade for them
Tier 5 Situational players and lineup complements
Tier 6 Roster fillers

For me, not even Booker is on Tier 2, he is highly heralded, but still away from arriving, until he actually will us into win some games. Bledose is fairly above average, but still could easily be out of Tier 3. Potential is all with our kids, but right now, most of them hardly cut above Tier 5. On their current state, we would not be keeping some of them beyond their rookie contracts.

Tier 1 None
Tier 2 None
Tier 3 Booker
Tier 4 Bledsoe, Warren, JJ
Tier 5 Chandler, Len, Daniels, Ulis, Williams, DJJ, James
Tier 6 Bender, Chriss, Dudley, Reed, Peters (most likely to get cut)

Intentionally leaving Knight out, he is a fallen 3 that went below 6
THIS

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The Bobster
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

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When I think all is said and done Jackson will be a better player than Booker.
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by JCSunsfan »

The Bobster wrote:When I think all is said and done Jackson will be a better player than Booker.
That is possible. Jackson has Scottie Pippen potential. Booker has Ray Allen potential.

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

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I always thought Ray was overrated. I see more advanced offensive moves from Booker, especially in the post, at 20 years old than I remember seeing from Ray. His post game is something we should be highlighting and taking advantage of, especially when there are teams going with smaller 2 guards.

I think Booker can definitely be a perennial All-Star. Jackson has a chance to get a couple All-Star Games so he's in that Tier 2/Tier 3 range.

Bledsoe, Chandler, Dudley are Tier 4. Bender, Chriss, Len, Ulis are Tier 5 at the moment because of their youth, even Len. That said, I'd include them in the right kind of deal if it came up. Daniels, Reed, Peters, DJJ, James are nice young players I'd like to keep on the roster. They're not worthless.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

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carey wrote:Mike James pre-season. 13-25 FG, 3-6 3P, 15-17 FT for 11 ppg on 52% from the field & 2 apg in 16 mpg.

VS

Tyler Ulis pre-season. 14-41 FG, 3-8 3P, 7-10 FT for 7.6 ppg on 34% from the field & 3.4 apg in 20 mpg.
Ulis is recovering from injury. I don't think those stats are representative.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by Mori Chu »

The Bobster wrote:When I think all is said and done Jackson will be a better player than Booker.
I would take that bet. Booker has already had a 70 (!!!) point game. Jackson has a long way to go.

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carey
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by carey »

O_Gardino wrote:James is always going to put up better individual stats than Ullis. I think this team can use James, because we really need someone out there who attacks. He's better with a big passer, though. If James gets some playing time with Jackson, that could be a good pairing. Or if Bender grows into the passer we hope for, those two could make a solid pairing.
I saw quite a few good passes by Jackson during pre-season but did you know he averaged less than 2 assists per game?
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O_Gardino
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Re: Suns News: Preseason 2017

Post by O_Gardino »

carey wrote:
O_Gardino wrote:James is always going to put up better individual stats than Ullis. I think this team can use James, because we really need someone out there who attacks. He's better with a big passer, though. If James gets some playing time with Jackson, that could be a good pairing. Or if Bender grows into the passer we hope for, those two could make a solid pairing.
I saw quite a few good passes by Jackson during pre-season but did you know he averaged less than 2 assists per game?
Not surprising. We shot poorly, and guys weren't moving or expecting the ball. What did Jackson average, 2 assists and 5 turnovers? We weren't ready to catch a score.
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