2018 Trade Deadline

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INFORMER
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by INFORMER »

n4th4n wrote: Very interesting stats. They make him look like even more of a pounder than Bledsoe.
He can be. But I also think he is a smarter player than Bledsoe, with a more trustworthy jumpshot, and more adept at catching and shooting. Bledsoe is the superior finisher and scorer in the paint.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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The Bobster
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by The Bobster »

You put Kemba Walker on this team and he's the best player on the team (Booker may eventually be better, but he's not now).

Also, you're going from one of the worst PG situations in the league to a player who played in the All-Star Game last year.
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Split T
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by Split T »

carey wrote:
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I think a lot of folks in this thread are underrating Kemba. He's not a pass-first PG, which would be my preference. And he doesn't have Curry-esque shooting. But he's basically a better Bledsoe with fewer issues, better health, and a better attitude. I actually think he would have a big impact here, and that he could be acquired without really giving up anything important such as high picks or key young players.

Why wouldn't you turn Monroe, Chriss, and maybe 1-2 "meh" picks into Kemba? That's a great trade. It makes this team a lot better, and frankly, we need that. We need a core of 3-4 guys who other players will say, "I want to play with those guys." Booker needs help. We need to show Booker that we want to win sometime in the next decade, and we need to take pressure off him so that he won't wear down.

Don't worry about the notion that trading for Kemba will ruin our draft pick this year. If anything it'll move it by 2-3 spots. It's still worth it to grab the guy while they are actually silly enough to be willing to move him for spare parts and cap relief.
The guy I quoted in this post enumerated why I don't really want Kemba. It's not much different than Bledsoe 2.0.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewto ... #p62360492

The guy conveniently picked last year for Bledsoe and this year for Kemba to compare. Why didn't he use Bledsoe from this year? Or Kemba from last year? Kemba has struggled a bit this year with his shot, but the last two years showed he's a better shooter than Bledsoe. He also takes care of the ball a lot better. I think their overall impact is probably similar, but Kemba's strengths fit better with Booker.

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TOO
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by TOO »

The Bobster wrote:You put Kemba Walker on this team and he's the best player on the team (Booker may eventually be better, but he's not now).

Also, you're going from one of the worst PG situations in the league to a player who played in the All-Star Game last year.
In the East.


I also don't think Walker is better than Booker.
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Shabazz
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by Shabazz »

Just saying...

[youtube][/youtube]

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The Bobster
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by The Bobster »

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
The Bobster wrote:You put Kemba Walker on this team and he's the best player on the team (Booker may eventually be better, but he's not now).

Also, you're going from one of the worst PG situations in the league to a player who played in the All-Star Game last year.
In the East.


I also don't think Walker is better than Booker.
Last 2 years -

Walker - 34.6 Min, .437 FG%, .383 3P%, .849 FT%, 3.7 Reb, 5.6 Ast, 1.1 Stl, 0.3 Blk, 2.1 Trn, 22.7 Pts
Booker - 34.8 Min, .430 FG%, .372 3P%, .849 FT%, 3.6 Reb, 3.8 Ast, 0.9 Stl, 0.3 Blk, 3.2 Trn, 23.1 Pts

Booker has to cut down on the turnovers before he's better than Walker. Everything else is pretty close except Walker has 2.6 assists per turnover, Booker is at 1.2 assists per turnover, and Walker is a better rebounder. And Booker certainly doesn't make up that difference defensively.

I'm sure Booker will be better than Walker soon, but it hasn't happened yet. But the real question is "How much better is Walker as the starting PG over Ulis?" And that's A LOT.
Last edited by The Bobster on Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Bobster
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by The Bobster »

Shabazz wrote:Just saying...

[youtube][/youtube]
Yes, he'd be a better backup SG than Troy Daniels.

But that's about the extent of it.
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n4th4n
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by n4th4n »

The Bobster wrote:
Shabazz wrote:Just saying...

[youtube][/youtube]
Yes, he'd be a better backup SG than Troy Daniels.

But that's about the extent of it.
Factor in his contract and... no thanks!

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JCSunsfan
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by JCSunsfan »

The Bobster wrote:You put Kemba Walker on this team and he's the best player on the team (Booker may eventually be better, but he's not now).

Also, you're going from one of the worst PG situations in the league to a player who played in the All-Star Game last year.
Kemba is not better than Booker.

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Shabazz
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by Shabazz »

He's better than you guys are giving him credit for. And we have leverage over the Lakers to get another asset too.

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Shabazz
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by Shabazz »

The Bobster wrote:
TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
The Bobster wrote:You put Kemba Walker on this team and he's the best player on the team (Booker may eventually be better, but he's not now).

Also, you're going from one of the worst PG situations in the league to a player who played in the All-Star Game last year.
In the East.


I also don't think Walker is better than Booker.
Last 2 years -

Walker - 34.6 Min, .437 FG%, .383 3P%, .849 FT%, 3.7 Reb, 5.6 Ast, 1.1 Stl, 0.3 Blk, 2.1 Trn, 22.7 Pts
Booker - 34.8 Min, .430 FG%, .372 3P%, .849 FT%, 3.6 Reb, 3.8 Ast, 0.9 Stl, 0.3 Blk, 3.2 Trn, 23.1 Pts

Booker has to cut down on the turnovers before he's better than Walker. Everything else is pretty close except Walker has 2.6 assists per turnover, Booker is at 1.2 assists per turnover, and Walker is a better rebounder. And Booker certainly doesn't make up that difference defensively.

I'm sure Booker will be better than Walker soon, but it hasn't happened yet. But the real question is "How much better is Walker as the starting PG over Ulis?" And that's A LOT.
Booker surpassed Walker this year.

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The Bobster
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by The Bobster »

Shabazz wrote:He's better than you guys are giving him credit for. And we have leverage over the Lakers to get another asset too.
He's getting paid $26 million over the next two years and he's not a starter-quality point guard.

And what are the Lakers going to throw in? Randle?
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The Bobster
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

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Shabazz wrote:
The Bobster wrote:
TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
The Bobster wrote:You put Kemba Walker on this team and he's the best player on the team (Booker may eventually be better, but he's not now).

Also, you're going from one of the worst PG situations in the league to a player who played in the All-Star Game last year.
In the East.


I also don't think Walker is better than Booker.
Last 2 years -

Walker - 34.6 Min, .437 FG%, .383 3P%, .849 FT%, 3.7 Reb, 5.6 Ast, 1.1 Stl, 0.3 Blk, 2.1 Trn, 22.7 Pts
Booker - 34.8 Min, .430 FG%, .372 3P%, .849 FT%, 3.6 Reb, 3.8 Ast, 0.9 Stl, 0.3 Blk, 3.2 Trn, 23.1 Pts

Booker has to cut down on the turnovers before he's better than Walker. Everything else is pretty close except Walker has 2.6 assists per turnover, Booker is at 1.2 assists per turnover, and Walker is a better rebounder. And Booker certainly doesn't make up that difference defensively.

I'm sure Booker will be better than Walker soon, but it hasn't happened yet. But the real question is "How much better is Walker as the starting PG over Ulis?" And that's A LOT.
Booker surpassed Walker this year.
Not according to analytics -

Walker - 20.4 PER, 4.7 WS, 2.1 VORP, 3.9 Box +/-
Booker - 19.6 PER, 2.5 WS, 1.1 VORP, 1.4 Box +/-
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JCSunsfan
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by JCSunsfan »

We would not only lose Monroe’s expiring ($17 million), we would have to take on Kemba and a bad contract. Probably Batum whose contract is two years longer than Kemba.

Imagine Kemba is a free agent. How happy would we be paying him $34 million a year AND continuing to pay $22 million a year after he is gone.

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The Bobster
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by The Bobster »

JCSunsfan wrote:We would not only lose Monroe’s expiring ($17 million), we would have to take on Kemba and a bad contract. Probably Batum whose contract is two years longer than Kemba.

Imagine Kemba is a free agent. How happy would we be paying him $34 million a year AND continuing to pay $22 million a year after he is gone.
With 3 years and $76 million left nobody's going to have any interest in taking on Batum. It would have to be Marvin Williams (2 years, 29 million) who has some value as a PF/SF.
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Shabazz
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by Shabazz »

The Bobster wrote:
Shabazz wrote:He's better than you guys are giving him credit for. And we have leverage over the Lakers to get another asset too.
He's getting paid $26 million over the next two years and he's not a starter-quality point guard.

And what are the Lakers going to throw in? Randle?
Larry Nance Jr?

I like his fit next to Booker. If we draft Doncic or Young he fits next to either of them as well as a 3rd guard.

I'm not pining for this move. I just think it's intriguing.

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JCSunsfan
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by JCSunsfan »

The Bobster wrote:
TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
The Bobster wrote:You put Kemba Walker on this team and he's the best player on the team (Booker may eventually be better, but he's not now).

Also, you're going from one of the worst PG situations in the league to a player who played in the All-Star Game last year.
In the East.


I also don't think Walker is better than Booker.
Last 2 years -

Walker - 34.6 Min, .437 FG%, .383 3P%, .849 FT%, 3.7 Reb, 5.6 Ast, 1.1 Stl, 0.3 Blk, 2.1 Trn, 22.7 Pts
Booker - 34.8 Min, .430 FG%, .372 3P%, .849 FT%, 3.6 Reb, 3.8 Ast, 0.9 Stl, 0.3 Blk, 3.2 Trn, 23.1 Pts

Booker has to cut down on the turnovers before he's better than Walker. Everything else is pretty close except Walker has 2.6 assists per turnover, Booker is at 1.2 assists per turnover, and Walker is a better rebounder. And Booker certainly doesn't make up that difference defensively.

I'm sure Booker will be better than Walker soon, but it hasn't happened yet. But the real question is "How much better is Walker as the starting PG over Ulis?" And that's A LOT.
I am sorry. You lost all credibility with this. Booker has been improving. His numbers are better this year. Walker declined last year over this. This is a total misuse of stats. We are talking about the player that each of them is now. Not last year.

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carey
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by carey »

How heavy do the analytics factor in the fact that the Suns are really bad?
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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specialsauce
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by specialsauce »

Shabazz wrote:Just saying...

[youtube][/youtube]

#KEEPWALKING

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: 2018 Trade Deadline

Post by Ring_Wanted »

Shabazz wrote:He's better than you guys are giving him credit for. And we have leverage over the Lakers to get another asset too.
He is not a PG, that's clear. No interest in taking him unless it includes Knight out.




Imagine we feel like trying to pull a BOS-BRY.

Deng, Clarkson, Nance, 2019 unprotected 1stR, 2023 unprotected 1stR for Monroe, Daniels.

Depending what LAL does in free agency: a) if they strike out in, we get gold in 2019; If they triumph, we can still get away greatly since the second pick would be in 2023, which could be the first year of their next rebuilding.

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