Game Day: Spurs (34-21) @ Suns (18-37), Wed 2/7/18

[specialsauce]

I can’t believe our argument for being against acquiring elite talent is being scared that he’ll leave in 2 years. We’d rather just trot out G League rosters. Just completely defeated. This is so sad. This is rock bottom.

That was nobodies main reason for not acquiring Kyrie.

1. Some of us just don't think Kyrie is elite
2. Our team wasn't ready. We'd have Kyrie, Booker, and nothing else.
3. The difference between bled and Kyrie wasn't worth 2 top 5 picks. Cleveland ended up only getting 1 unlikely top 5 pick
4. Giving all that up for a player that could just leave in two years was too steep.

24.7/5/3.6 on 48/40/89 is not elite. Okay.

Our team wasn't ready for a top 5 point guard? Okay. Lmao. That's the most ridiculous statement I've heard yet Split.

You really think Kyrie makes a real difference on this team? Does he make Chriss and Bender real NBA players? He's not Nash. He and Booker would just take turns scoring and getting scored on on the other end. We'd win 35 games and sign DeAndre Jordan this off-season so we could be a 7 seed next year and watch Kyrie leave

Again, it's convenient to think that Kyrie would have been acquired and NO additional moves would have been made. Yes, that team would suck. Do you really think the Suns would have stood pat after acquiring Kyrie and put out the same team? I really don't. I think at that point you make a decision that this team has a chance to be competitive now and for years to come and you function accordingly.

[specialsauce]

Bledsoe for Irving straight up was never on the table. We all would have taken that.

? Seriously dude.

Bledsoe + Jackson + Miami 1st would be just grand.

That's quite the haul for 2 years of Kyrie.

And how much better would we be with the rest of the roster as it is? Instead of getting blasted by 50, we lose by 20?

It would drastically change the course of the franchise. I can promise you if we made that trade our FA last offseason and the trade deadline today would have been much different. We are in full tank mode right now. They would have signed actual basketball players as our timeline would have immediately shifted. If you can’t build a winner around Kyrie and Booker within 2 years, that’s your problem. Not championship, but at least a team capable of making a run in the playoffs for years to come. Man if you aren’t willing to gamble in this league you are not going to make it. When did we as fans lose all of our confidence?

This is getting really, really obnoxious. Just because we don't want to make the same bets as you doesn't mean we're cowards who are afraid to gamble.

Jackson may yet turn into a solid player. The Milwaukee pick might. The Miami pick might. And we're in an excellent position to land with someone like Ayton or Doncic with our own pick. We also have loads of cap flexibility. We strike oil with one or more of those picks, and/or use our cap room for good trades, and we could find one or more players who will contribute to the team for many, many years to come, and even make us a reasonable FA destination for Kyrie in '19.

I chose to gamble that we will find value in those FOUR first round picks and the possibility of being a legit FA destination in '19. Your preference was to trade away all that future possibility for the sure thing of two years of Kyrie.

You f*** coward.

Return when you chill out. I won't engage you any further Cap.

[Split T]

I can’t believe our argument for being against acquiring elite talent is being scared that he’ll leave in 2 years. We’d rather just trot out G League rosters. Just completely defeated. This is so sad. This is rock bottom.

That was nobodies main reason for not acquiring Kyrie.

1. Some of us just don't think Kyrie is elite
2. Our team wasn't ready. We'd have Kyrie, Booker, and nothing else.
3. The difference between bled and Kyrie wasn't worth 2 top 5 picks. Cleveland ended up only getting 1 unlikely top 5 pick
4. Giving all that up for a player that could just leave in two years was too steep.

24.7/5/3.6 on 48/40/89 is not elite. Okay.

Our team wasn't ready for a top 5 point guard? Okay. Lmao. That's the most ridiculous statement I've heard yet Split.

You really think Kyrie makes a real difference on this team? Does he make Chriss and Bender real NBA players? He's not Nash. He and Booker would just take turns scoring and getting scored on on the other end. We'd win 35 games and sign DeAndre Jordan this off-season so we could be a 7 seed next year and watch Kyrie leave

Again, it's convenient to think that Kyrie would have been acquired and NO additional moves would have been made. Yes, that team would suck. Do you really think the Suns would have stood pat after acquiring Kyrie and put out the same team? I really don't. I think at that point you make a decision that this team has a chance to be competitive now and for years to come and you function accordingly.

I'm sure they would have but what would Chriss and Bender gotten us? I don't think trading for Kyrie would have been a bad move, I just think there were better options. Like building through Jackson and our 2018 pick and Booker.

[specialsauce]

When you get a lottery pick, the absolute best case scenario is that they turn out to be a player of Kyrie's caliber.

The alternative and more likely scenario is that they turn out to be of Chriss and Bender's caliber.

I'll take the sure thing any day of the week.

[Split T]

That's fair. But do you give up two lottery picks to upgrade from Bledsoe to Kyrie? I wouldn't.

[Cap]

Again, it's convenient to think that Kyrie would have been acquired and NO additional moves would have been made.

It's a reasonable assumption, because the proposed trade would have completely stripped us of assets. There'd be nothing left to trade.

[Indy]

It would drastically change the course of the franchise. I can promise you if we made that trade our FA last offseason and the trade deadline today would have been much different. We are in full tank mode right now. They would have signed actual basketball players as our timeline would have immediately shifted. If you can’t build a winner around Kyrie and Booker within 2 years, that’s your problem. Not championship, but at least a team capable of making a run in the playoffs for years to come. Man if you aren’t willing to gamble in this league you are not going to make it. When did we as fans lose all of our confidence?

About a decade ago. When was the last time we had a GM with more than 5 total years of GM experience at the NBA level? Our current ownership doesn't think it is important to have an experience person assembling the team.

I’d love to have a look at GMs around the league and see who had >5 years of experience prior to signing with their respective teams. I think that you’d be surprised by how short that list would be.

That’s a cheap shot at Sarver. Sarver is not cheap. He is foolish.

It isn't a cheap shot. And I have always said he is penny-wise, pound-foolish. When it comes to hiring FO staff, he is very cheap. When was the last time we had a GM or coach that wasn't in the bottom 5 for salary?

And I should have said I meant GM/assistant GM. I would be fine with a person that proved themselves for 5 years making GM decisions for a team.

Fair, how long was McDonough with the Celtics under Ainge? Not sure. I agree that the Blanks and D'Antoni GM days were a joke. Watson and Lindsey Hunter were jokes.

I think Steve Kerr was a good hire. A shame that he left.

I just looked it up. He was an Assistant GM for 3 years. And to be fair, I wasn't against hiring him when we did. He has just shown that he is not good at assembling a team, coaching staff, or managing players. You know that think that a General Manager should be good at.

I would agree that Kerr was a good hire and it is a shame he left, but even he admits how little he knew and how many mistakes he made while here. I think it all comes down to our owner, and I don't have confidence that anyone he brings in as a GM will really have the authority and power to do what a GM needs to do.

[specialsauce]

Again, it's convenient to think that Kyrie would have been acquired and NO additional moves would have been made.

It's a reasonable assumption, because the proposed trade would have completely stripped us of assets. There'd be nothing left to trade.

That's not true. We'd still have the second of the Miami first rounders, our own first round pick this year, all the second round picks, TJ, Bender, Chriss.

The only assets we would have lost would have been Josh Jackson, and one of the Miami picks. If you really would rather have those two than a legitimate superstar, I don't know what to tell you.

I don't know if we would have made the playoffs, but realistically we'd still be looking at adding a player with the 14th-20th pick this year, we'd have Chandler and Dudley coming off the books in a few years, we would still have had cap space to add some quality FA's.

[specialsauce]

About a decade ago. When was the last time we had a GM with more than 5 total years of GM experience at the NBA level? Our current ownership doesn't think it is important to have an experience person assembling the team.

I’d love to have a look at GMs around the league and see who had >5 years of experience prior to signing with their respective teams. I think that you’d be surprised by how short that list would be.

That’s a cheap shot at Sarver. Sarver is not cheap. He is foolish.

It isn't a cheap shot. And I have always said he is penny-wise, pound-foolish. When it comes to hiring FO staff, he is very cheap. When was the last time we had a GM or coach that wasn't in the bottom 5 for salary?

And I should have said I meant GM/assistant GM. I would be fine with a person that proved themselves for 5 years making GM decisions for a team.

Fair, how long was McDonough with the Celtics under Ainge? Not sure. I agree that the B____s and D'Antoni GM days were a joke. Watson and L*****y H****r were jokes.

I think Steve Kerr was a good hire. A shame that he left.

I just looked it up. He was an Assistant GM for 3 years. And to be fair, I wasn't against hiring him when we did. He has just shown that he is not good at assembling a team, coaching staff, or managing players. You know that think that a General Manager should be good at.

I would agree that Kerr was a good hire and it is a shame he left, but even he admits how little he knew and how many mistakes he made while here. I think it all comes down to our owner, and I don't have confidence that anyone he brings in as a GM will really have the authority and power to do what a GM needs to do.

I agree all around. I just can't get behind the sentiment that Sarver is cheap. Because with the hires that he has made, there haven't been other people that I was hoping he'd go after but cost too much. I really don't like a lot of the retread GM's. They were fired for a reason. Assistant GMs don't cost a lot of money (see McDonough). Is Sarver a moron? Yes. Is he cheap? I don't know about that. I don't think the reason we suck is because he's cheap. I think we suck because he's a shitty owner, makes poor decisions, and involves himself in big franchise-changing decisions.

[Ring_Wanted]

You really think Kyrie makes a real difference on this team? Does he make Chriss and Bender real NBA players? He's not Nash. He and Booker would just take turns scoring and getting scored on on the other end. We'd win 35 games and sign DeAndre Jordan this off-season so we could be a 7 seed next year and watch Kyrie leave

This was so written on the wall.

[O_Gardino]

I think it all comes down to our owner, and I don't have confidence that anyone he brings in as a GM will really have the authority and power to do what a GM needs to do.

[Mori Chu]

Kyrie Irving, 2017-18 season: 24.7 ppg (.486/.401/.886 shooting), 5.0 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.1 spg, 2.3 topg in 32.8 mpg. All-Star Starter in the East.

What a crap player! Glad we didn't trade now-gone Bledsoe, questionable-value-rookie Josh Jackson, and a non-lottery 1st round pick for this chump. I am so afraid and insecure about my own franchise that I won't acquire an all-star PG with two years on his contract because I cannot fathom a world in which I can build a decent team around an all-star backcourt in 2 years and convince a great player to stay here.

How bout them Spurs?

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving

[Indy]

I’d love to have a look at GMs around the league and see who had >5 years of experience prior to signing with their respective teams. I think that you’d be surprised by how short that list would be.

That’s a cheap shot at Sarver. Sarver is not cheap. He is foolish.

It isn't a cheap shot. And I have always said he is penny-wise, pound-foolish. When it comes to hiring FO staff, he is very cheap. When was the last time we had a GM or coach that wasn't in the bottom 5 for salary?

And I should have said I meant GM/assistant GM. I would be fine with a person that proved themselves for 5 years making GM decisions for a team.

Fair, how long was McDonough with the Celtics under Ainge? Not sure. I agree that the B____s and D'Antoni GM days were a joke. Watson and L*****y H****r were jokes.

I think Steve Kerr was a good hire. A shame that he left.

I just looked it up. He was an Assistant GM for 3 years. And to be fair, I wasn't against hiring him when we did. He has just shown that he is not good at assembling a team, coaching staff, or managing players. You know that think that a General Manager should be good at.

I would agree that Kerr was a good hire and it is a shame he left, but even he admits how little he knew and how many mistakes he made while here. I think it all comes down to our owner, and I don't have confidence that anyone he brings in as a GM will really have the authority and power to do what a GM needs to do.

I agree all around. I just can't get behind the sentiment that Sarver is cheap. Because with the hires that he has made, there haven't been other people that I was hoping he'd go after but cost too much. I really don't like a lot of the retread GM's. They were fired for a reason. Assistant GMs don't cost a lot of money (see McDonough). Is Sarver a moron? Yes. Is he cheap? I don't know about that. I don't think the reason we suck is because he's cheap. I think we suck because he's a shitty owner, makes poor decisions, and involves himself in big franchise-changing decisions.

When it comes to FO folks, he is. I agree he isn't when it comes to players, and his cheapness might not be the full reason we suck. Agreed there.

[O_Gardino]

Kyrie Irving, 2017-18 season: 24.7 ppg (.486/.401/.886 shooting), 5.0 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.1 spg, 2.3 topg in 32.8 mpg. All-Star Starter in the East.

What a crap player! Glad we didn't trade now-gone Bledsoe, questionable-value-rookie Josh Jackson, and a non-lottery 1st round pick for this chump. I am so afraid and insecure about my own franchise that I won't acquire an all-star PG with two years on his contract because I cannot fathom a world in which I can build a decent team around an all-star backcourt in 2 years and convince a great player to stay here.

How bout them Spurs?

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving

The name calling and taunting are too much. I don't care that it's your site. Be respectful in the way you hold these debates. Don't take out your frustration with the Suns on fellow board members who prefer a different rebuilding strategy.

[Split T]

Kyrie Irving, 2017-18 season: 24.7 ppg (.486/.401/.886 shooting), 5.0 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.1 spg, 2.3 topg in 32.8 mpg. All-Star Starter in the East.

What a crap player! Glad we didn't trade now-gone Bledsoe, questionable-value-rookie Josh Jackson, and a non-lottery 1st round pick for this chump. I am so afraid and insecure about my own franchise that I won't acquire an all-star PG with two years on his contract because I cannot fathom a world in which I can build a decent team around an all-star backcourt in 2 years and convince a great player to stay here.

How bout them Spurs?

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving

Thanks for repeating the exact thing specialsauce just said. We didn't catch it the last 50 times either

[Shabazz]

Back to this game - Triano got a little too cute with starting both Bender and Chriss. Try that duo out in spurts, but they had no business starting against a team like the Spurs. Len/Bender please. They pair very well together.

[O_Gardino]

Back to this game - Triano got a little too cute with starting both Bender and Chriss. Try that duo out in spurts, but they had no business starting against a team like the Spurs. Len/Bender please. They pair very well together.

Agreed. Maybe Len was seeing limited action because he was involved in trade talks?

I really, truly do not know why he isn't starting. He is having a career best season in rebounding, scoring, efficiency, avoiding fouls, ft shooting, and passing.

[bajanguy008]

Wow so after the trade deadline madness and just staring at my timeline I didn't bother to watch the game, said I would just read what y'all had to say.
Safe to say I not sure if the beatdown or this thread is worst on the eyes. Geeez

[Mori Chu]

Kyrie Irving, 2017-18 season: 24.7 ppg (.486/.401/.886 shooting), 5.0 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.1 spg, 2.3 topg in 32.8 mpg. All-Star Starter in the East.

What a crap player! Glad we didn't trade now-gone Bledsoe, questionable-value-rookie Josh Jackson, and a non-lottery 1st round pick for this chump. I am so afraid and insecure about my own franchise that I won't acquire an all-star PG with two years on his contract because I cannot fathom a world in which I can build a decent team around an all-star backcourt in 2 years and convince a great player to stay here.

How bout them Spurs?

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving

The name calling and taunting are too much. I don't care that it's your site. Be respectful in the way you hold these debates. Don't take out your frustration with the Suns on fellow board members who prefer a different rebuilding strategy.

I'm sorry. I am just teasing, but I know that harsh words can be hurtful. I'll try to moderate myself better in terms of how I discuss such things. I don't mean any disrespect to you or others.

[O_Gardino]

Kyrie Irving, 2017-18 season: 24.7 ppg (.486/.401/.886 shooting), 5.0 apg, 3.6 rpg, 1.1 spg, 2.3 topg in 32.8 mpg. All-Star Starter in the East.

What a crap player! Glad we didn't trade now-gone Bledsoe, questionable-value-rookie Josh Jackson, and a non-lottery 1st round pick for this chump. I am so afraid and insecure about my own franchise that I won't acquire an all-star PG with two years on his contract because I cannot fathom a world in which I can build a decent team around an all-star backcourt in 2 years and convince a great player to stay here.

How bout them Spurs?

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/6442/kyrie-irving

The name calling and taunting are too much. I don't care that it's your site. Be respectful in the way you hold these debates. Don't take out your frustration with the Suns on fellow board members who prefer a different rebuilding strategy.

I'm sorry. I am just teasing, but I know that harsh words can be hurtful. I'll try to moderate myself better in terms of how I discuss such things. I don't mean any disrespect to you or others.

Accepted.

And now back to our regularly scheduled sarcasm and friendly joking.