carey wrote:$15M???? What happened to the "don't bid against yourselves" crowd? Don't look at his play in a vacuum. He was just dumped for a 2nd round pick and nearly every team has a starting PG they are happy with already. I stand by my $8M. He should not be getting more than the MLE as he is an average level NBA player. Don't let the fact that we are starved for competent PG play effect your judgement here.
If we give him 15 mil it'll be the end of this alleged timeline. Orlando didn't get a better offer than a second round pick which explains his value across the league. No one is throwing 15 at him. No one is throwing 12 at him either. Middle of the road PG's are dime a dozen right now.
OK, but how much for just one?
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan
carey wrote:$15M???? What happened to the "don't bid against yourselves" crowd? Don't look at his play in a vacuum. He was just dumped for a 2nd round pick and nearly every team has a starting PG they are happy with already. I stand by my $8M. He should not be getting more than the MLE as he is an average level NBA player. Don't let the fact that we are starved for competent PG play effect your judgement here.
I agree that we shouldn't bid against ourselves on Payton. I would not want to offer him a $15m/year contract out of the gate with no competition for him at that price. I'd rather offer him a much lower number, say $9-10m/yr, and then if he goes looking for other deals, I wouldn't match him if he gets much higher than that. I just meant that it might take that much to ultimately keep him, because some team might offer him $15m/yr to try to steal him. I have mixed feelings about handing him a huge contract, but I do think I'd pay him more than you seem to be willing to pay him. I just want a solid young stable PG helping run our team, and I have really gotten tired of the endless revolving door of G-Leaguers and nobodies we have been trotting out. I think it'd be worth spending a few bucks to lock down that position going forward for several years.
Agreed. I think he can be a top 8-10 PG in the league at some point but more importantly, he can make the younger guys like Chriss, Bender, Jackson and even Booker and TJ better by making the game easier for them. Maybe FOs are going to freeze some guys out to reign in contracts but all it takes is one. The Knicks gave THJ 70 because the Hawks weren't going over 50-55. We need PG stability and Payton can add that.
And Lou Williams...nice player, carved out a niche for himself in the L but he's also a 31 year old journeyman at this point and the Clips blew their team up. They both offer each other some stability there.
Would I love Payton at 8-9 a year? Absolutely. I just think 12-15 is more in line with the market. Schroder's contract averages out at 15.5 over 4 which has 62 guaranteed and the rest is incentives. Or we can see how the draft goes and see if he plays out the year as an RFA.
In2ition wrote:I really like Payton and think he can be a long term solution for the Suns as either a starter or backup. This summer is going to be crazy with all the possibilities and changes/roster improvements that I think will happen.
Yeah, this is going to be a huge offseason for us. Or else...
ShelC wrote:8mil per year for a starting PG was the salary 10 years ago. Hell we gave M****s B***s 5mil to be a backup in the summer of 2005. Knight and Bledsoe got max deals starting at what, 12-14mil, 2 years ago? It'll be at least that.
Not sure I'd use Knight's contract as a barometer. That was a stupid f*** offer by a stupid f*** team who's only bidder was themselves.
Yup, and all for the benefit of dumping a high draft pick in this draft. I hated both the Bledsoe and Knight 70 mil deals.
Split T wrote:Ya they're close. Mitchell is 22/4/4, Booker is 26/5/5. Booker has better shooting splits but he also has more NBA experience. He's also younger than Mitchell, by a couple months, and has to shoulder more workload.
So it's possible Mitchell ends up a better player, but hard to make an argument that he's already better.
I think Booker's NBA experience is more of an advantage than Mitchell's age.
I agree. Mostly mentioned that for people who like to compare Mitchell's rookie year to Booker's and say that makes Mitchell better.
Let's face it. Mitchell is special and most missed on him. Still, I'd rather have Booker.
Split T wrote:Who's going to pay Payton 12 million a year? Find a team with Cap space that needs a PG and maybe, but my guess is you won't find one.
Well, there are some teams with cap space who could stand for an upgrade at PG, like maybe the Bulls or Hawks or somebody like that. Or maybe there's a team that doesn't have cap space today but makes a trade to free up space, like the Pelicans. Or maybe there's a team that seems to have their PG position set but will make a draft-day trade and will then need a new PG, such as the Kings or Knicks or Mavs or Jazz or somebody like that. I agree that if you look up and down the list of NBA teams, a lot of them don't need a PG like Payton right now given their current roster and cap hold. But, as was said, all it takes is one team that has the interest and the cap space, and suddenly Payton has a big offer on his hands.
Split T wrote:Who's going to pay Payton 12 million a year? Find a team with Cap space that needs a PG and maybe, but my guess is you won't find one.
Well, there are some teams with cap space who could stand for an upgrade at PG, like maybe the Bulls or Hawks or somebody like that. Or maybe there's a team that doesn't have cap space today but makes a trade to free up space, like the Pelicans. Or maybe there's a team that seems to have their PG position set but will make a draft-day trade and will then need a new PG, such as the Kings or Knicks or Mavs or Jazz or somebody like that. I agree that if you look up and down the list of NBA teams, a lot of them don't need a PG like Payton right now given their current roster and cap hold. But, as was said, all it takes is one team that has the interest and the cap space, and suddenly Payton has a big offer on his hands.
The Pels are paying $25M/yr for the next four years to Jrue, and they're going to invest big in another PG too? And an unproven one at that?
Split T wrote:Who's going to pay Payton 12 million a year? Find a team with Cap space that needs a PG and maybe, but my guess is you won't find one.
Well, there are some teams with cap space who could stand for an upgrade at PG, like maybe the Bulls or Hawks or somebody like that. Or maybe there's a team that doesn't have cap space today but makes a trade to free up space, like the Pelicans. Or maybe there's a team that seems to have their PG position set but will make a draft-day trade and will then need a new PG, such as the Kings or Knicks or Mavs or Jazz or somebody like that. I agree that if you look up and down the list of NBA teams, a lot of them don't need a PG like Payton right now given their current roster and cap hold. But, as was said, all it takes is one team that has the interest and the cap space, and suddenly Payton has a big offer on his hands.
The Bulls are pretty happy with Dunn I think. The Hawks handed the keys over the Schroeder this year but apparently everyone is on the table so you never know. The kings (Fox), Knicks (nkilitina) and Mavs(smith Jnr) all have recent lotto picks at pg, the jazz got Rubio recently ... are any of them looking for a change of direction so soon? I'm not sure
Payton is in a tricky spot (for him) - coming off his rookie pay scale but hasn't shown enough to be a cornerstone piece. You can make a solid argument that he doesn't get any big offers. But as noted, it just takes one team. I find it hard to guess what he'll be offered
Split T wrote:Ya they're close. Mitchell is 22/4/4, Booker is 26/5/5. Booker has better shooting splits but he also has more NBA experience. He's also younger than Mitchell, by a couple months, and has to shoulder more workload.
So it's possible Mitchell ends up a better player, but hard to make an argument that he's already better.
I think Booker's NBA experience is more of an advantage than Mitchell's age.
I agree. Mostly mentioned that for people who like to compare Mitchell's rookie year to Booker's and say that makes Mitchell better.
Let's face it. Mitchell is special and most missed on him. Still, I'd rather have Booker.
I’ve been too busy and tired to post lately, but this got me interested in piping in again. I agree 100% with this, and I’d like to add that Booker himself was overlooked in the draft.
The thing that tips the scales in Booker’s favor is his ultra elite desire to be “the man”. When Mitchell takes, and makes, MULTIPLE game winning/tying shots, then we’ll talk.
If it is a choice between him and Ulis being our starting point guard next year, break the bank.
I cannot stand another year watching Ulis as our starting Point guard.
The big problem is you can't pay Payton a lot with Knight still here earning $15M a year for a couple more years. We're either going to have to use a pick to dump Knight so we can pay Payton or just ride with Knight and let Payton go.
I really don't see s scenario where we'll have to pay Payton more than 10 million a year. I guess if he maintained his 3 game averages over the rest of the season, but I don't think that's likely.
