Suns News: Week 23 3/19-3/25

[specialsauce]

I think they would certainly be a middle seed in the West and have the talent and potential to be great, should they improve as expected of great players. To me it’s a risk worth taking where their ceilings are high enough.

[ShelC]

If I thought Bamba could have a Gobert type of impact, I'd be all in. Gobert's not a true offensive threat who you can play thru, but can finish great around the rim and his presence defensively negates any lack of offense outside of say, 4 feet.

[specialsauce]

Nahhhhhhhh. No way. Gobert is not and never will be considered a top 10 guy in this league. Davis, Cousins, KAT, Embiid, Porzingis.....I’d take any of them over him. Good offense always beats good defense and is more impactful. Maybe not in the 1980s when you old farts watched basketball but the game has changed

[ShelC]

I should clarify...I wouldn't take Bamba #1 over Ayton. Bamba is 4-6 pick for me.

[TOO]

Nahhhhhhhh. No way. Gobert is not and never will be considered a top 10 guy in this league. Davis, Cousins, KAT, Embiid, Porzingis.....I’d take any of them over him. Good offense always beats good defense and is more impactful. Maybe not in the 1980s when you old farts watched basketball but the game has changed

When was the last bad defensive team to win a title?

And of those guys you listed, Porzingis, Embiid, and Davis are good defenders, or at the very least high quality rim protectors. Defense matters and 3pt shooting is what wins, not "good offense."

[TOO]

Just gonna leave this here, took it from the around league Carey posted.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/3/23/ ... f-the-year

[specialsauce]

Nahhhhhhhh. No way. Gobert is not and never will be considered a top 10 guy in this league. Davis, Cousins, KAT, Embiid, Porzingis.....I’d take any of them over him. Good offense always beats good defense and is more impactful. Maybe not in the 1980s when you old farts watched basketball but the game has changed

When was the last bad defensive team to win a title?

And of those guys you listed, Porzingis, Embiid, and Davis are good defenders, or at the very least high quality rim protectors. Defense matters and 3pt shooting is what wins, not "good offense."

Good TEAM defense wins, an individual defender isn’t as impactful. Conversely, an elite offensive talent can carry a team to a win on any given night. An elite defender will always depend on his teammates.

Curry is a great example of that. He’s not a good defender but he can single handedly will the Warriors to a victory on any night. Same with Harden. As a team, Golden State is a good defensive unit but that has more to do with the team as a whole than the individual players.

Same with Kyrie and the Celtics.

Same with Lebron and the Cavs teams that went on to win the finals, though this year’s team has been awful defensively.

Elite offensive talent > elite defensive talent

[ShelC]

When it comes to the playoffs tho, Curry has Thompson and Iguodala to guard the best perimeter players and Green to guard the interior. The Rockets are making noise this year because of defensive depth with guys like Tucker, Mbah a Moute, Nene and Capela.

It does take good team defense but it's also easier to find really good defensive players than elite offensive players. The Ws have the best of both worlds. If you think you're going to build a team comparable to Curry, Klay, Durant, Green, Iguodala....good luck.

If we can put defenders and shooters around Booker, making him the elite offensive talent, we could be close. Jackson might be one piece, but we're still a ways away.

[TOO]

Nahhhhhhhh. No way. Gobert is not and never will be considered a top 10 guy in this league. Davis, Cousins, KAT, Embiid, Porzingis.....I’d take any of them over him. Good offense always beats good defense and is more impactful. Maybe not in the 1980s when you old farts watched basketball but the game has changed

When was the last bad defensive team to win a title?

And of those guys you listed, Porzingis, Embiid, and Davis are good defenders, or at the very least high quality rim protectors. Defense matters and 3pt shooting is what wins, not "good offense."

Good TEAM defense wins, an individual defender isn’t as impactful. Conversely, an elite offensive talent can carry a team to a win on any given night. An elite defender will always depend on his teammates.

Curry is a great example of that. He’s not a good defender but he can single handedly will the Warriors to a victory on any night. Same with Harden. As a team, Golden State is a good defensive unit but that has more to do with the team as a whole than the individual players.

Same with Kyrie and the Celtics.

Same with Lebron and the Cavs teams that went on to win the finals, though this year’s team has been awful defensively.

Elite offensive talent > elite defensive talent

Elite defensive talent at the C position changes the way your team defense functions and changes the way the other teams offense operates. I'm not sure how you can disagree with this fact. And no, Curry cannot will his team to victory of the other guys don't play defense, that's just not how it works. It goes hand in hand, and I personally would rather have a great defense than a great offense. The Suns have always been know as a great offensive team (obviously that's been destroyed over the last decade) but we've got nothing to show for that. Just coulda woulda shouldas. I want a team that defends inside and out, defense leads to transition, which leads to easy points. Anyone can shoot a 3 now, run the PnR, nobody runs their offense through the post, so to me, getting a defensive anchor on defense, helps more than a guy who puts up 20/10 but is a defensive negative.

[TOO]

Also, you can't build a good team defense without good individual defenders. LOL.

[Indy]

It would be interesting to see how often the NBA champion is a higher rated defensive team than offensive (probably based on efficiency, not simply points for/against). I would be that over the last 30 years, it is more likely for the champion to be a higher rated defense than offense. How would you look that up?

[specialsauce]

Also, you can't build a good team defense without good individual defenders. LOL.

Tell that to Boston. Or San Antonio.

[specialsauce]

Nahhhhhhhh. No way. Gobert is not and never will be considered a top 10 guy in this league. Davis, Cousins, KAT, Embiid, Porzingis.....I’d take any of them over him. Good offense always beats good defense and is more impactful. Maybe not in the 1980s when you old farts watched basketball but the game has changed

When was the last bad defensive team to win a title?

And of those guys you listed, Porzingis, Embiid, and Davis are good defenders, or at the very least high quality rim protectors. Defense matters and 3pt shooting is what wins, not "good offense."

Good TEAM defense wins, an individual defender isn’t as impactful. Conversely, an elite offensive talent can carry a team to a win on any given night. An elite defender will always depend on his teammates.

Curry is a great example of that. He’s not a good defender but he can single handedly will the Warriors to a victory on any night. Same with Harden. As a team, Golden State is a good defensive unit but that has more to do with the team as a whole than the individual players.

Same with Kyrie and the Celtics.

Same with Lebron and the Cavs teams that went on to win the finals, though this year’s team has been awful defensively.

Elite offensive talent > elite defensive talent

Elite defensive talent at the C position changes the way your team defense functions and changes the way the other teams offense operates. I'm not sure how you can disagree with this fact. And no, Curry cannot will his team to victory of the other guys don't play defense, that's just not how it works. It goes hand in hand, and I personally would rather have a great defense than a great offense. The Suns have always been know as a great offensive team (obviously that's been destroyed over the last decade) but we've got nothing to show for that. Just coulda woulda shouldas. I want a team that defends inside and out, defense leads to transition, which leads to easy points. Anyone can shoot a 3 now, run the PnR, nobody runs their offense through the post, so to me, getting a defensive anchor on defense, helps more than a guy who puts up 20/10 but is a defensive negative.

Yeah, you’re right, Andrew Bogut is the real MVP

[specialsauce]

It would be interesting to see how often the NBA champion is a higher rated defensive team than offensive (probably based on efficiency, not simply points for/against). I would be that over the last 30 years, it is more likely for the champion to be a higher rated defense than offense. How would you look that up?

I’m not arguing that position. I’m arguing that in the last 10 years no champion has won the title with their best players being elite defenders with below average offensive skills. They were all elite offensive players who played decent defense (Lebron), played great defense as a team (Warriors), or were elite at both ends of the floor (Duncan and the Spurs).

You can only pay the max to realistically 2 players on your team. Spending the max on a player like Gobert means that he will be the focus of your team. You’re not gonna get very far that way. He’d be a great complementary piece to 2 Max offensive talents, but that’s not how teams will pay him. That makes him incredibly overrated.

[TOO]

Also, you can't build a good team defense without good individual defenders. LOL.

Tell that to Boston. Or San Antonio.

If you dont think they have good individual defenders then I dont know what to tell you.

[TOO]

Nahhhhhhhh. No way. Gobert is not and never will be considered a top 10 guy in this league. Davis, Cousins, KAT, Embiid, Porzingis.....I’d take any of them over him. Good offense always beats good defense and is more impactful. Maybe not in the 1980s when you old farts watched basketball but the game has changed

When was the last bad defensive team to win a title?

And of those guys you listed, Porzingis, Embiid, and Davis are good defenders, or at the very least high quality rim protectors. Defense matters and 3pt shooting is what wins, not "good offense."

Good TEAM defense wins, an individual defender isn’t as impactful. Conversely, an elite offensive talent can carry a team to a win on any given night. An elite defender will always depend on his teammates.

Curry is a great example of that. He’s not a good defender but he can single handedly will the Warriors to a victory on any night. Same with Harden. As a team, Golden State is a good defensive unit but that has more to do with the team as a whole than the individual players.

Same with Kyrie and the Celtics.

Same with Lebron and the Cavs teams that went on to win the finals, though this year’s team has been awful defensively.

Elite offensive talent > elite defensive talent

Elite defensive talent at the C position changes the way your team defense functions and changes the way the other teams offense operates. I'm not sure how you can disagree with this fact. And no, Curry cannot will his team to victory of the other guys don't play defense, that's just not how it works. It goes hand in hand, and I personally would rather have a great defense than a great offense. The Suns have always been know as a great offensive team (obviously that's been destroyed over the last decade) but we've got nothing to show for that. Just coulda woulda shouldas. I want a team that defends inside and out, defense leads to transition, which leads to easy points. Anyone can shoot a 3 now, run the PnR, nobody runs their offense through the post, so to me, getting a defensive anchor on defense, helps more than a guy who puts up 20/10 but is a defensive negative.

Yeah, you’re right, Andrew Bogut is the real MVP

Awe, someone is getting snarky now...

[specialsauce]

Also, you can't build a good team defense without good individual defenders. LOL.

Tell that to Boston. Or San Antonio.

If you dont think they have good individual defenders then I dont know what to tell you.

Yeah, Kyrie Irving and Jayson Tatum are great.

Aldridge, Parker, Ginobili, Mills, Gasol, Gay and Bertram’s are all great. The only good defenders the spurs have are Green and Murray.

[TOO]

Also, you can't build a good team defense without good individual defenders. LOL.

Tell that to Boston. Or San Antonio.

If you dont think they have good individual defenders then I dont know what to tell you.

Yeah, Kyrie Irving and Jayson Tatum are great.

Aldridge, Parker, Ginobili, Mills, Gasol, Gay and Bertram’s are all great. The only good defenders the spurs have are Green and Murray.

Do the Celtics have a 2 man roster? No? Ok then.

No as for your Spurs thing, please sir, explain to me, how this team, full of bad defenders, somehow plays great team defense. Genuinely interested on your theory here.

[specialsauce]

Also, you can't build a good team defense without good individual defenders. LOL.

Tell that to Boston. Or San Antonio.

If you dont think they have good individual defenders then I dont know what to tell you.

Yeah, Kyrie Irving and Jayson Tatum are great.

Aldridge, Parker, Ginobili, Mills, Gasol, Gay and Bertram’s are all great. The only good defenders the spurs have are Green and Murray.

Do the Celtics have a 2 man roster? No? Ok then.

No as for your Spurs thing, please sir, explain to me, how this team, full of bad defenders, somehow plays great team defense. Genuinely interested on your theory here.

Do you disagree that the players I mentioned are subpar individual defenders? Aldridge was knocked for his defense in Portland. Same with Gasol.

Defense is about effort combined with discipline, communication, knowing your assignment and understanding rotations. That’s a lot more important than individual skill. You can have 5 great defenders on the floor but if they don’t know their scheme or are late on rotations, they will fail.

[TOO]

I do disagree that the players mentioned are subpar individual defenders, if they are rotating, making call outs, following their assignments. That's all you can ask someone to do defensively. 1 on 1 defense isn't really a thing in today's game because of the popularity of the pick and roll making everyone switch. There is a difference in what you and I consider bad defenders, guys like Kanter, Elfrid Payton, Karl Towns, etc, people who don't try/lack awareness are bad defenders, we have a roster littered with them. Guys who communicate, know their roles and play within the team constructs to me are good defenders.