Game Day: Suns (19-53) @ Cavs (42-29), Fri 3/23/18

[Aztec Sunsfan]

Can you give me an example of an intentional tank this year? Playing our roster is not tanking.

Of course it is, when you sub Ulis in instead of Harrelson, or Dudley for Jackson when they are clearly entering in rythm,I just read with Zach Lowe how Memphis is playing a triple PF lineup in long stretches (playing the roster) but it’s ok if you want to push your point to the extreme.

[specialsauce]

That’s a huge stretch. You think of all people Jay Triano is intentionally losing by the timing of his rotation and substitutions ? Lol. Sorry, I have to say that I don’t see it. You really think that the amount of minutes he is giving to Harrison vs Ulis, or to Dudley is what is causing us to lose games we would otherwise win? Come on. You realize that last game Dudley was by far the best +\- on the court?

[TOO]

Again, nobody in the NBA is losing on purpose. Coaching could be bad, players can be bad, both, but nobody would sit back and throw a game for a draft pick. No chance.

[Aztec Sunsfan]

That’s a huge stretch. You think of all people Jay Triano is intentionally losing by the timing of his rotation and substitutions ? Lol. Sorry, I have to say that I don’t see it. You really think that the amount of minutes he is giving to Harrison vs Ulis, or to Dudley is what is causing us to lose games we would otherwise win? Come on. You realize that last game Dudley was by far the best +\- on the court?

I was giving a couple examples, read again, I was not saying we have lost any game we were due to win, but that occasionally we are deliberately careless to dismiss any possibility but hey, let's give Dudley an extension because he had a nice game!!!

Sorry that you can’t see beyond your myopic prejudices, Lol.

[specialsauce]

That’s a huge stretch. You think of all people Jay Triano is intentionally losing by the timing of his rotation and substitutions ? Lol. Sorry, I have to say that I don’t see it. You really think that the amount of minutes he is giving to Harrison vs Ulis, or to Dudley is what is causing us to lose games we would otherwise win? Come on. You realize that last game Dudley was by far the best +\- on the court?

I was giving a couple examples, read again, I was not saying we have lost any game we were due to win, but that occasionally we are deliberately careless to dismiss any possibility but hey, let's give Dudley an extension because he had a nice game!!!

Sorry that you can’t see beyond your myopic prejudices, Lol.

I asked for an example of us tanking. You did not provide a reasonable one. I see no evidence of tanking from this team this year. Our talent level is reflected by our record, nothing more. Now you're being dramatic.

Last year, we clearly tanked at an organizational level.

[The Bobster]

They're losing a lot of games because they're a really, really bad team.

They don't need to tank.

[Mori Chu]

The term "tanking" can mean different things. Some of you seem to be arguing that "tanking" means "throwing games," where either the players or the coach actively work during a game to try to lose. That is dumb and does not happen. But tanking does include activities such as the following:

- not using all of your salary cap space to sign veteran players who could improve your team
- giving huge minutes to rookies who are not ready and will cause your team to lose more games
- not doing everything you can to find/hire the best possible coach
- trading away veterans for minimal return
- letting players walk rather than re-signing them so that they don't help you win any more games
- drafting "project" players who will not be ready to contribute for several years
- resting players who are on the borderline of being healthy or injured
- signing D-Leaguers rather than veterans minimum guys to fill out roster spots
- not carrying a full roster of players
- being under the salary cap floor

And so on. The Suns have done most or all of these things. We are absolutely tanking. If we wanted to have better than the 2nd-worst record in the NBA, there are lots of things we could do to achieve that. We have chosen not to do any of those things, because we want to lose and want odds of getting a great draft pick. That is tanking, plain and simple, even if the deeply flawed and half-assed collection of players try their hardest to win once the jump ball is thrown up.

[O_Gardino]

We are absolutely tanking.

In Triano's first 39 games, we were 16-29 (41%ish) with an average margin of defeat at -4.5 points. We lost 14 games by 10 or more, with 4 of those being 20 point blowouts. We were an up and down young team learning to compete in the NBA.

In the last 33, we are 3-29 (9%ish) with an average margin of defeat at -14.4 points. 20 games by 10 or more and 11 blowouts. We are one of the worst teams in history.

[Cap]

Again, nobody in the NBA is losing on purpose.

Have you forgotten Mark Cuban’s $600,000 fine? What was that for?

[The Bobster]

Again, nobody in the NBA is losing on purpose.

Have you forgotten Mark Cuban’s $600,000 fine? What was that for?

The more correct statement is that the coaches and players don't want to tank, their livelihoods in the league depend on performing well. However, some front offices and owners are quite content with more losses and more ping pong balls to speed up their rebuilding.

[TOO]

Again, nobody in the NBA is losing on purpose.

Have you forgotten Mark Cuban’s $600,000 fine? What was that for?

Words.

[specialsauce]

We are absolutely tanking.

In Triano's first 39 games, we were 16-29 (41%ish) with an average margin of defeat at -4.5 points. We lost 14 games by 10 or more, with 4 of those being 20 point blowouts. We were an up and down young team learning to compete in the NBA.

In the last 33, we are 3-29 (9%ish) with an average margin of defeat at -14.4 points. 20 games by 10 or more and 11 blowouts. We are one of the worst teams in history.

Your definition of tanking seems to be “losing.”

Tanking to me implies that the team is purposely trying to throw games. Like we did holding out our vets last year.

[The Bobster]

We are absolutely tanking.

In Triano's first 39 games, we were 16-29 (41%ish) with an average margin of defeat at -4.5 points. We lost 14 games by 10 or more, with 4 of those being 20 point blowouts. We were an up and down young team learning to compete in the NBA.

In the last 33, we are 3-29 (9%ish) with an average margin of defeat at -14.4 points. 20 games by 10 or more and 11 blowouts. We are one of the worst teams in history.

Your definition of tanking seems to be “losing.”

Tanking to me implies that the team is purposely trying to throw games. Like we did holding out our vets last year.

For players and coaches, I would agree. For organizations it means intentionally putting your coaches and players in a situation where they don;t have a reasonable expectation to win games so that your team will get a better draft choice.

[specialsauce]

We are absolutely tanking.

In Triano's first 39 games, we were 16-29 (41%ish) with an average margin of defeat at -4.5 points. We lost 14 games by 10 or more, with 4 of those being 20 point blowouts. We were an up and down young team learning to compete in the NBA.

In the last 33, we are 3-29 (9%ish) with an average margin of defeat at -14.4 points. 20 games by 10 or more and 11 blowouts. We are one of the worst teams in history.

Your definition of tanking seems to be “losing.”

Tanking to me implies that the team is purposely trying to throw games. Like we did holding out our vets last year.

For players and coaches, I would agree. For organizations it means intentionally putting your coaches and players in a situation where they don;t have a reasonable expectation to win games so that your team will get a better draft choice.

I would agree with this sentiment with the emphasis on the bold. I think the Suns went into the season with longer term goals of trying to develop their players and grow their core. They acquired Payton at the deadline which was consistent with that goal. I don’t think the motivation for not signing win now veterans was to lose intentionally to get a better draft choice. I think they didn’t want to waste their cap space on average vets that wouldn’t move the needle much long term.

McD even admitted last year they held out their vets for “strategic resting.”

[Aztec Sunsfan]

The term "tanking" can mean different things. Some of you seem to be arguing that "tanking" means "throwing games," where either the players or the coach actively work during a game to try to lose. That is dumb and does not happen. But tanking does include activities such as the following:

- not using all of your salary cap space to sign veteran players who could improve your team
- giving huge minutes to rookies who are not ready and will cause your team to lose more games
- not doing everything you can to find/hire the best possible coach
- trading away veterans for minimal return
- letting players walk rather than re-signing them so that they don't help you win any more games
- drafting "project" players who will not be ready to contribute for several years
- resting players who are on the borderline of being healthy or injured
- signing D-Leaguers rather than veterans minimum guys to fill out roster spots
- not carrying a full roster of players
- being under the salary cap floor

And so on. The Suns have done most or all of these things. We are absolutely tanking. If we wanted to have better than the 2nd-worst record in the NBA, there are lots of things we could do to achieve that. We have chosen not to do any of those things, because we want to lose and want odds of getting a great draft pick. That is tanking, plain and simple, even if the deeply flawed and half-assed collection of players try their hardest to win once the jump ball is thrown up.

THANK YOU.