ShelC wrote:I think Booker is going to pull a mini-LeBron and say he's not signing an extension until he sees progress from the FO and roster. It'd be a huge gamble, but we are the Suns after all.
I am not asking you to change your position on how much to pay these guys, but if you can't look at what's happening to the Clippers and see the difference Jordan is making, than I would question your ability to evaluate basketball.specialsauce wrote:You already know my position about this in our discussion about Gobert so I’ll just agree to disagree with you on this one!INFORMER wrote:Eh. I wouldn't paint with a broad stroke.specialsauce wrote:Yes. This. Thank youLazarusLong wrote:The era of the "aircraft carrier" alpha center is gone, given the uptempo NBA and importance of the trey.
It's good to have a player or two with low-post skills, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a center.
Take DeAndre Jordan. He is still a significant difference -maker. How on earth do you think the Clippers are still competing for a playoff spot? It isn't because of Austin Rivers. Jordan's defense, rebounding, and his ability to finish (including being able to run the court) are huge pluses for whatever team that has him.
Look, I agree that Jordan is a good player and is a main reason the Clippers are still a playoff team. I just think that is where a Jordan led team maxes out. He is a liability in crunch time offensively/FT shooting and I don’t see a team with Jordan at the salary he would command contending for a championship.INFORMER wrote:I am not asking you to change your position on how much to pay these guys, but if you can't look at what's happening to the Clippers and see the difference Jordan is making, than I would question your ability to evaluate basketball.specialsauce wrote:You already know my position about this in our discussion about Gobert so I’ll just agree to disagree with you on this one!INFORMER wrote:Eh. I wouldn't paint with a broad stroke.specialsauce wrote:Yes. This. Thank youLazarusLong wrote:The era of the "aircraft carrier" alpha center is gone, given the uptempo NBA and importance of the trey.
It's good to have a player or two with low-post skills, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a center.
Take DeAndre Jordan. He is still a significant difference -maker. How on earth do you think the Clippers are still competing for a playoff spot? It isn't because of Austin Rivers. Jordan's defense, rebounding, and his ability to finish (including being able to run the court) are huge pluses for whatever team that has him.
Do you think Doncic Booker Jackson Bender Jordan contends for a championship? Because if you sign Jordan, extend Booker and round out the roster with half decent role players, that’s it for any major FA signings. You won’t have cap space to go any further other than extending your own guys. If you don’t think that team contends (which I don’t) then it’s a huge mistake. You max out the wrong guy for you essentially lock yourself into mediocrity.In2ition wrote:I believe you could make a few more moves that will improve the team, besides Doncic and Jordan, but both of those improve both the offense and the defense next year. That's not even talking about improvements made by the rest of the young players over the summer(improving 3 pt shooting through work, ball handling, weight room, maturity) or the other draft picks or deals made.
I've seen tweets where fans are saying that the Suns wouldn't be able to sign Booker because of the cap if they give big money to a free agent. That's a complete misunderstanding of how the cap works. If the young Suns keep improving to the point that they are worth max or near max money, Sarver needs to do it and not fret about the cap. I assume that they should go over the cap to continue a winner, as I hope they turn into.
It really depends on how many of the young guys develop and other things that happen, and when you are talking about winning. It could work in a few years, but those guys would have to develop. You seem to think that Warren, the two other draft picks and any smaller important moves won't take place either. I could see other picks being important, trades being made, depth being built and others emerging as more important in the grand scheme of things. Bender probably won't start, and could eventually be a piece that could play down the stretch.specialsauce wrote:Do you think Doncic Booker Jackson Bender Jordan contends for a championship? Because if you sign Jordan, extend Booker and round out the roster with half decent role players, that’s it for any major FA signings. You won’t have cap space to go any further other than extending your own guys. If you don’t think that team contends (which I don’t) then it’s a huge mistake. You max out the wrong guy for you essentially lock yourself into mediocrity.In2ition wrote:I believe you could make a few more moves that will improve the team, besides Doncic and Jordan, but both of those improve both the offense and the defense next year. That's not even talking about improvements made by the rest of the young players over the summer(improving 3 pt shooting through work, ball handling, weight room, maturity) or the other draft picks or deals made.
I've seen tweets where fans are saying that the Suns wouldn't be able to sign Booker because of the cap if they give big money to a free agent. That's a complete misunderstanding of how the cap works. If the young Suns keep improving to the point that they are worth max or near max money, Sarver needs to do it and not fret about the cap. I assume that they should go over the cap to continue a winner, as I hope they turn into.
You seem to be missing my point. I think the development of this team is independent of Jordan. You're tying them together. I am speaking of Jordan independently. Those things will happen whether he is on this team or not. I don't see Jordan as the missing piece to take us over the top, and I'd prefer to preserve that cap space for a player who I believe would take this team to a championship.In2ition wrote:It really depends on how many of the young guys develop and other things that happen, and when you are talking about winning. It could work in a few years, but those guys would have to develop. You seem to think that Warren, the two other draft picks and any smaller important moves won't take place either. I could see other picks being important, trades being made, depth being built and others emerging as more important in the grand scheme of things. Bender probably won't start, and could eventually be a piece that could play down the stretch.specialsauce wrote:Do you think Doncic Booker Jackson Bender Jordan contends for a championship? Because if you sign Jordan, extend Booker and round out the roster with half decent role players, that’s it for any major FA signings. You won’t have cap space to go any further other than extending your own guys. If you don’t think that team contends (which I don’t) then it’s a huge mistake. You max out the wrong guy for you essentially lock yourself into mediocrity.In2ition wrote:I believe you could make a few more moves that will improve the team, besides Doncic and Jordan, but both of those improve both the offense and the defense next year. That's not even talking about improvements made by the rest of the young players over the summer(improving 3 pt shooting through work, ball handling, weight room, maturity) or the other draft picks or deals made.
I've seen tweets where fans are saying that the Suns wouldn't be able to sign Booker because of the cap if they give big money to a free agent. That's a complete misunderstanding of how the cap works. If the young Suns keep improving to the point that they are worth max or near max money, Sarver needs to do it and not fret about the cap. I assume that they should go over the cap to continue a winner, as I hope they turn into.
I'm not saying he is THE first choice, but as things don't fall into place he could be the missing piece. Besides, it could be that if you don't pay him if available and no one else becomes available, they won't have any money to spend anyway next year as Booker's extension kicks in, and possibly a trade is made with expiring contracts of Chandler and Dudley involved.specialsauce wrote:You seem to be missing my point. I think the development of this team is independent of Jordan. You're tying them together. I am speaking of Jordan independently. Those things will happen whether he is on this team or not. I don't see Jordan as the missing piece to take us over the top, and I'd prefer to preserve that cap space for a player who I believe would take this team to a championship.In2ition wrote:It really depends on how many of the young guys develop and other things that happen, and when you are talking about winning. It could work in a few years, but those guys would have to develop. You seem to think that Warren, the two other draft picks and any smaller important moves won't take place either. I could see other picks being important, trades being made, depth being built and others emerging as more important in the grand scheme of things. Bender probably won't start, and could eventually be a piece that could play down the stretch.specialsauce wrote:Do you think Doncic Booker Jackson Bender Jordan contends for a championship? Because if you sign Jordan, extend Booker and round out the roster with half decent role players, that’s it for any major FA signings. You won’t have cap space to go any further other than extending your own guys. If you don’t think that team contends (which I don’t) then it’s a huge mistake. You max out the wrong guy for you essentially lock yourself into mediocrity.In2ition wrote:I believe you could make a few more moves that will improve the team, besides Doncic and Jordan, but both of those improve both the offense and the defense next year. That's not even talking about improvements made by the rest of the young players over the summer(improving 3 pt shooting through work, ball handling, weight room, maturity) or the other draft picks or deals made.
I've seen tweets where fans are saying that the Suns wouldn't be able to sign Booker because of the cap if they give big money to a free agent. That's a complete misunderstanding of how the cap works. If the young Suns keep improving to the point that they are worth max or near max money, Sarver needs to do it and not fret about the cap. I assume that they should go over the cap to continue a winner, as I hope they turn into.
I see it like one or the another, specially with both Cleveland and LA demanding picks and young players, so I’m not sure we have the ammo and/or cap space to make it happen in a plausible way, but I agree that it would be really interesting to watch this team.Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:I think if we drafted Doncic, traded for Kevin Love, and signed DeAndre Jordan (along with signing whatever cheap veteran FAs we could), that would actually be a really interesting team.
Can't know for sure, but with Doncic/Booker/Love we'd have better spacing than LA did. And is being the clippers a bad thing? They were really good, arguably a top 3 or 4 team in the league. Would just need a little luck or to be a little better and you could win a championship.specialsauce wrote:Would we be any different than the Clippers with Paul Redick Griffin and Jordan?
Split T wrote:Can't know for sure, but with Doncic/Booker/Love we'd have better spacing than LA did. And is being the clippers a bad thing? They were really good, arguably a top 3 or 4 team in the league. Would just need a little luck or to be a little better and you could win a championship.specialsauce wrote:Would we be any different than the Clippers with Paul Redick Griffin and Jordan?
I'm not really in favor of pursuing Jordan, but if our roster at the start of the year was Doncic/Booker/Jackson/Love/Jordan with whoever else we sign/keep on the bench I wouldn't hate it and I'd stay optimistic and I think I'd enjoy that team.
That's a valid question. Some of the main differences I can see:specialsauce wrote:Would we be any different than the Clippers with Paul Redick Griffin and Jordan?
Even then, it doesn't make sense for them because releasing Capela doesn't get them below the cap and space to sign LeBron.Split T wrote:The only chance Houston let's Capela go is if LeBron is coming.
The 2nd one, but there's no way we could put that team together. Adding Ayton and Trae in the draft and somehow having the assets to get Kevin Love and then sign Paul George?In2ition wrote:Even then, it doesn't make sense for them because releasing Capela doesn't get them below the cap and space to sign LeBron.Split T wrote:The only chance Houston let's Capela go is if LeBron is coming.
Which roster would you rather have?
Doncic, Booker, JJ, Love, Jordan with Bender, Williams, Harrison, Ulis, Daniels off the bench
Or
Young, Booker, George, Love/Gordon, Ayton with Ulis, Harrison, House, JJ, Bender, Williams off the bench
They have a few of assets:Split T wrote:The 2nd one, but there's no way we could put that team together. Adding Ayton and Trae in the draft and somehow having the assets to get Kevin Love and then sign Paul George?In2ition wrote:Even then, it doesn't make sense for them because releasing Capela doesn't get them below the cap and space to sign LeBron.Split T wrote:The only chance Houston let's Capela go is if LeBron is coming.
Which roster would you rather have?
Doncic, Booker, JJ, Love, Jordan with Bender, Williams, Harrison, Ulis, Daniels off the bench
Or
Young, Booker, George, Love/Gordon, Ayton with Ulis, Harrison, House, JJ, Bender, Williams off the bench
