Roster Rebuild Game

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
User avatar
TheOriginalOriginal
Posts: 5529
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by TheOriginalOriginal » Thu May 24, 2018 4:10 pm

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 4:03 pm
TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 3:35 pm
I on the other hand do not let personal feelings lead my decisions. I'd rather keep Knight, than pay a back up 25m per season, thats just stupid.
Boh. What can I tell you. If that's what you take from what I said, then never mind.
I get what you're saying, but Knight was thrown in a terrible situation, with a bad coach who expected him to be some sort of super sub. All of that was new to him, all of it a s*** way to start his time here. Then he gets hurt, giving him a chance to gain a little perspective. Now we seem to be trending up, he doesn't have to share the PG duty with 2 other players, we have a coach that got Rubio to a respectable number as a shooter. I see no reason to trade him for a vastly overpaid bench guy, we aren't gonna get any value in return for a guy who just missed an entire season. Stretching him makes no sense, we gave up a lotto pick, then we paid him, you think they'll just throw him away? That makes no sense.
Mood: :roll:

User avatar
Aztec Sunsfan
Posts: 1081
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:56 pm

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Aztec Sunsfan » Thu May 24, 2018 7:40 pm

Money aside, we were subjected to so much this past year, that Knight is no longer the worst to the eyes.

There is little comfort to it, but to keep Knight in order to see what we got on him, is a small calculated risk at this point, it’s one thing to use him as a filler in a trade that have us taking back massive salary, but looking for a deal just to get rid of him, would be a move coming one year too late. Next year he is at least a expiring piece like today’s Dudley, so paying assets or taking back a longer deal or with equally or worse value involved, is futile for just an extra year of worst case scenario “awful play”.

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 8445
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu May 24, 2018 9:52 pm

I'd rather see Ulis or Payton get minutes than Knight. At least the first Ulis and Payton can pass the ball.

User avatar
TheOriginalOriginal
Posts: 5529
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by TheOriginalOriginal » Thu May 24, 2018 11:47 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:52 pm
I'd rather see Ulis or Payton get minutes than Knight. At least the first Ulis and Payton can pass the ball.
Can't do anything else though.
Mood: :roll:

User avatar
Ring_Wanted
Posts: 4180
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Ring_Wanted » Fri May 25, 2018 12:36 am

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 4:10 pm
I get what you're saying, but Knight was thrown in a terrible situation, with a bad coach who expected him to be some sort of super sub. All of that was new to him, all of it a s*** way to start his time here. Then he gets hurt, giving him a chance to gain a little perspective. Now we seem to be trending up, he doesn't have to share the PG duty with 2 other players, we have a coach that got Rubio to a respectable number as a shooter. I see no reason to trade him for a vastly overpaid bench guy, we aren't gonna get any value in return for a guy who just missed an entire season. Stretching him makes no sense, we gave up a lotto pick, then we paid him, you think they'll just throw him away? That makes no sense.
Do you remember DET Josh Smith? This was Knight for the Suns. We can make up excuses if we want, but at the end of the day what Knight gave us in each fo the three seasons he stepped on the court was hero ball, clancked shots, no defense and general knucklehead play. Turning this into a good allaround team player with a brain like Batum goes a looong way into allowing you to actually 'trend up'. Expensive move? Of course. But if you are keeping Knight, you still need to pay someone to provide what Batum would, if you want to try to win. That someone's salary plus Knight's, and you are already at or close to Batum's money. But you still have the net negative that is Knight. No thanks.

What the Suns gave up to acquire him is inconsequential at this point. And wether or not they'd throw him away doesn't even matter here, as I am talking about what I think they should do, not what I believe they'll do.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 5375
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Split T » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:24 pm

How would you guys feel if our roster ended up like this:

PG Kemba, Knight, Ulis
SG Booker, Divencenzo, Shaq
SF Jackson, Bridges, House or Reed
PF Williams, Bender, Dudley
C Ayton, Williams, Chandler

How we got here:

Draft Ayton at #1
Trade #16 and 2021 Miami 1st for #8 and draft Mikal Bridges
Trade Warren, Chriss, Mil pick for Kemba/Marvin Williams
Draft Divencenzo at #31

Would Cleveland and Charlotte make those trades?
#31 might have to be included somewhere.
I'd also be open to a few other players at 31 and we could trade up for a few other players at 8, maybe Porter Jr?

I wouldn't give this an A, but I think it'd be a solid B or B- off-season and something that might happen. I just can't help but think we're adding Ayton and Kemba. What other big move is out there?

User avatar
Ring_Wanted
Posts: 4180
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Ring_Wanted » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:57 pm

Don't know If I do that trade for #8 to draft Mikal. For Carter (or Porter) maybe, but losing that MIA pick hurts a lot.

TJ, MIL and Chriss feels a little too rich to me for Kemba and Marvin. Would need to keep TJ or the pick. And I don't want to have Kemba and Knight on the same rotation.

Perimeter defense (although I love me some Shaq) and rebounding would be a concern. The bench looks very shaky with people coming from injury, rookies and general underperformers.

Still an obvious improvement over what we have. Just don't feel it would be that big of an upgrade for the assets spent (Kemba is not an allstar in the west) as the biggest difference would come from Ayton anyway.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 5375
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Split T » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:07 pm

What if we traded up for Porter instead and took Batum back instead of Marvin and added Dudley in the trade to Charlotte?

PG Kemba, Knight
SG Booker, Divencenzo
SF Jackson, Batum
PF Porter, Bender
C Ayton, Williams


Again, I think if it was my decision, I wouldn't pursue Kemba, I just think that's what we do and I'm trying to find a scenario I'd be ok with.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 5375
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Split T » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:13 pm

Another idea:

Draft Ayton at #1
Draft Khyri Thomas at #16(Or a PG/combo guard of your choice: holiday, Melton, Okobo, Milton, huerter)
Draft Milton at #31(Or a PG/Combo guard of your choice: Divencenzo, Shamet, okogie)

Sign Aaron Gordon

PG Knight, Milton, Ulis
SG Booker, Thomas, Shaq
SF Jackson, Warren, House
PF Gordon, Bender, Dudley
C Ayton, Chriss, Williams

User avatar
O_Gardino
Posts: 4526
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:47 pm
Location: Shreveport, LA

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by O_Gardino » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:07 pm

Split T wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:24 pm
How would you guys feel if our roster ended up like this:

PG Kemba, Knight, Ulis
SG Booker, Divencenzo, Shaq
SF Jackson, Bridges, House or Reed
PF Williams, Bender, Dudley
C Ayton, Williams, Chandler

How we got here:

Draft Ayton at #1
Trade #16 and 2021 Miami 1st for #8 and draft Mikal Bridges
Trade Warren, Chriss, Mil pick for Kemba/Marvin Williams
Draft Divencenzo at #31

Would Cleveland and Charlotte make those trades?
#31 might have to be included somewhere.
I'd also be open to a few other players at 31 and we could trade up for a few other players at 8, maybe Porter Jr?

I wouldn't give this an A, but I think it'd be a solid B or B- off-season and something that might happen. I just can't help but think we're adding Ayton and Kemba. What other big move is out there?
That would be a very competitive roster. I don't think we win a championship with it, but I think it would be a good team for a couple of years, and you could retool as Kemba and Williams come off the books.

As much as I love Bridges, that's a lot to give up for him.

And the roster puts a lot of pressure on Coachokov, because that is a lot of guys who need touches and don't defend very well.
SELL THE TEAM
#notank
#sarverout

User avatar
Vladimir_Taltos
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:02 pm

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Vladimir_Taltos » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:27 am

What are you knuckle heads continuing to point to combos/wings when there is a potentially pretty good PG likely there at 16 in Hoiiday? We need somebody that bloody sees the floor and can run a damn offense. Doncic, Trae, Holiday are the only mid to upper tier true PGs available! F another Bledsoe, etc! Holiday is intriguing and I damn well hope our staff is having him in to take a look!

User avatar
Vladimir_Taltos
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:02 pm

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Vladimir_Taltos » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:37 am

STRENGTHS
Gets into the lane at will. Explosive driver with long strides. Shifty with plus body control in traffic. Excellent first step.
Picture-perfect form on catch-and-shoot jumpers. Can hit out to NBA range. 98th percentile on catch-and-shoot. Will add gravity off the ball.
Tough shot maker. Was responsible for creating most of the offense for UCLA this season. 91% of 2-point makes were unassisted. 98th percentile on guarded catch-and-shoot jumpers.
Plays with impressive effort on defense most of the time. Stays engaged off the ball and gets into his man’s body. Fights to get through screens.
Length and frame help to make up for subpar height (6-foot-1). Strong 187-pound frame with a 6-foot-5 wingspan. Bulldog-type defender when he locks in.
Not afraid to attack the bodies of rim protectors around the basket. Should be able to draw plenty of fouls in the NBA. 6.2 FTA/40 this season.
Aggressive off-ball defender who can dig down and create steals. Sometimes shoots passing lanes too hard but his engagement level is impressive.
Flashes of passing vision over the top defenses in the pick-and-roll. Drive-and-kick creator who can make basic reads against a rotating defense.
Able to play on and off the ball at the next level. Plus shooter coming off screens, pindowns, and movement in general. 90th percentile off-screen.
Dynamic leading the break in transition. Can get to the rim, pull up from 3, or kick outlet passes ahead. Should be useful as a change-of-pace guard in the NBA.

User avatar
Vladimir_Taltos
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:02 pm

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Vladimir_Taltos » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:44 am

Holiday's assists have increased each year of his 3 year career...his seasonal stars show him breaking past that damn 6APG limit that seems to stick with PGs that can't see the floor for s***, and he is known for having good court vision. Plus...good shooting, range, defense. Other than Doncic or Trae...he's the guy.

User avatar
Cap
Posts: 5055
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Cap » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:32 am

WEAKNESSES

Turns the ball over far too often. Throws ball into traffic and randomly falls over. Doesn’t anticipate defenses very well. 4.0 TOV/40, 1.54:1 A:TO ratio.
Effort on defense is very inconsistent. Gets beat off the dribble far too easily at times. Content playing from behind rather than working to recover.
Loose handle in traffic. Struggles with ball pressure. Will need to add ball security if he wants to be a lead guard in the NBA. Can’t be an off-guard at 6-foot-1.
Plays with a one-track mind at times. Often looks off teammates in favor of tough looks. Has some bad moments where he forces the issue and kills the offense.
Can struggle with touch on shots around the rim. 49th percentile on shots around the basket. Explosive horizontally but rarely finishes above the rim in traffic.
Too jumpy on perimeter. Flies out on closeouts rather than staying under control. Doesn’t have much margin for error due to subpar size.
Feel for the game is lacking in most areas. Rarely makes advanced reads as a passer. Doesn’t have very good anticipation on either end.
Occasionally takes bad angles through screens. Defensive effort is a plus but his overall technique is mostly disappointing.
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 4096
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by In2ition » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:51 am

I'd rather have Elie Okobo than Holiday tbh. Holiday is ok, but never thought of him as a difference maker.
Let's Go! Enough of this tanking crap. It's time to win.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 5375
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Split T » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:55 am

Vladimir_Taltos wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:27 am
What are you knuckle heads continuing to point to combos/wings when there is a potentially pretty good PG likely there at 16 in Hoiiday? We need somebody that bloody sees the floor and can run a damn offense. Doncic, Trae, Holiday are the only mid to upper tier true PGs available! F another Bledsoe, etc! Holiday is intriguing and I damn well hope our staff is having him in to take a look!
Well in most of these scenarios, we were getting Kemba, however I also included Holiday as an option at 16. He's just not my first choice.

User avatar
Vladimir_Taltos
Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:02 pm

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Vladimir_Taltos » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:19 am

There's NO perfect player at 16...
He is known to have good court vision...
He has has multiple games with higher assist numbers...
...at 16 you draft on possibilities...I think with the right coaching he could be good for us.

User avatar
carey
Posts: 9944
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by carey » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:45 pm

I'm calling my shot - I guess. I think we trade Warren, #16, next year's MIL 1st, and Chriss for Kevin Love. He didn't play well in the finals and I think they want out of that $25M a year deal. He's 29-years-old and in the tail end of his prime years.

Knight/Okobo?/S. Harrison
Booker/Daniels/Reed
JJ/?/Dudley
Love/Bender/Peters
Ayton/Chandler/A. Williams

We win 37 games next year and miss the playoffs by 5 games.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

User avatar
carey
Posts: 9944
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by carey » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:54 pm

Gambo is reporting we're high on Shamet and Okobo. My prediction is looking slightly more likely.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 5375
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Roster Rebuild Game

Post by Split T » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:05 pm

carey wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:54 pm
Gambo is reporting we're high on Shamet and Okobo. My prediction is looking slightly more likely.
I'd be happy with Okobo and shamet is probably the best shooter in the draft.

Post Reply