2018 Free Agency

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Mori Chu
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by Mori Chu »

You have to give a guy like Booker the max. If you don't, you signal to every player that the Suns won't spend money even on their biggest stars.

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specialsauce
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by specialsauce »

Charlie Smithy! wrote:I guess this might be heresy, but I find myself wondering if Booker is worth the max.

You must be running a fever!

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Cap
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by Cap »

Charlie Smithy! wrote:I guess this might be heresy, but I find myself wondering if Booker is worth the max.
Who are we talking about here? Trevor? Melvin? Cory? The other Devin? Can’t be Devin Armani.

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Superbone
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by Superbone »

Charlie Smithy! wrote:I guess this might be heresy, but I find myself wondering if Booker is worth the max.
Yes, it is heresy. Now where did I put my pitchfork and torch?
"Be Legendary."

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by Ring_Wanted »

O_Gardino wrote:I think you've got to play Knight for 20 or so games, just to show the NBA he's healthy and to see for yourself what he has in his tank. Unless stretching him gets you an absolute great player this summer, I think it's better to play him and see what you've got.
This has crossed my mind, but honestly I have no faith. Knight was a major flop before he blew his knee. If he keeps trying his usual hero ball, I can't see how is anything other than a disaster. The only way I'd entertain keeping him is if he agreed with the coach to try a different role. Spot up 3pt shooter, try to focus on defense, don't go to the basket unless the defense is off balance (never one on one hero ball) and limit the time you handle the ball. Under that premise, I'd give him 10 games, but if I see that he comes in preseason same old Knight, I am stretching him for sure.

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by Ring_Wanted »

Charlie Smithy! wrote:I guess this might be heresy, but I find myself wondering if Booker is worth the max.
It is. Do you want to have a Kevin Love in MIN situation? Because that's how you get a Kevin Love in MIN situation.

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JustWinBaby
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by JustWinBaby »

I do not think that paying Booker the max is the issue. The question is when.

Next Summer we have lots of cap space with Chandler and Dudley coming off the books, certainly enough to sign one max free agent. Why not wait until next summer to max Booker. I believe we can go over the cap to sign our own free agents but cannot go over the cap to sign another teams free agent. The problem is that if we extend Booker this summer we might not have enough cap room to sign another max free agent for a long time. While whom we draft this summer is very important next summers cap room could be equally important. I would certainly keep Booker in the loop if it is not against league policy. I do not think it is as cut and dry as some think that we must max out Booker this summer. We really need to get the next 2 summers correct not just this one.
I wanted Monty as our coach since D'Antoni left town. Nice choice James Jones.

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jonh
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by jonh »

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush--recognize that strategically it could be better to wait until next summer, but a lot can change between now and next year (and surprises for the Suns have rarely been positive the last little bit). We have a bad perception around the league--paying Booker doesn't fit that, but it allows the team to not shoot themselves in the foot (again).

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specialsauce
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by specialsauce »

JustWinBaby wrote:I do not think that paying Booker the max is the issue. The question is when.

Next Summer we have lots of cap space with Chandler and Dudley coming off the books, certainly enough to sign one max free agent. Why not wait until next summer to max Booker. I believe we can go over the cap to sign our own free agents but cannot go over the cap to sign another teams free agent. The problem is that if we extend Booker this summer we might not have enough cap room to sign another max free agent for a long time. While whom we draft this summer is very important next summers cap room could be equally important. I would certainly keep Booker in the loop if it is not against league policy. I do not think it is as cut and dry as some think that we must max out Booker this summer. We really need to get the next 2 summers correct not just this one.
I agree with you on this if Book is on board with this plan

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INFORMER
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by INFORMER »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:Capella is a nice player, but Harden, Paul and D'Antoni have a lot to do with what we're seeing from him now.

He shouldn't be overpaid by the Suns for what he's done in a completely different environment.
Exactly. The Suns don't have the system or the players to maximize Capela's strengths. We wouldn't get the same Capela that the Rockets are getting.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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JustWinBaby
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by JustWinBaby »

INFORMER wrote:
Flagrant Fowl wrote:Capella is a nice player, but Harden, Paul and D'Antoni have a lot to do with what we're seeing from him now.

He shouldn't be overpaid by the Suns for what he's done in a completely different environment.
Exactly. The Suns don't have the system or the players to maximize Capela's strengths. We wouldn't get the same Capela that the Rockets are getting.
The question becomes. If we do not Draft Ayton or another big and end up drafting Doncic for example. When and how are we ever going to get a big equal to or better than Capella?

If we do draft Doncic isn't he supposed to be an expert playmaker similar to Simmons? We also have two other potential playmakers in Booker and Jackson to get Capella the ball. Imo Capella is more than a dunk machine he is a very good rim protector as well. In addition we have just hired an offensive genius in Igor. Capellla would be a fine addition at whatever price.

I would prefer Donic + Capella rather than Ayton and no other legit playmaker. Who is going to get the ball to Ayton? It seems as though he needs that person as well.

I cannot imagine why anyone would not be excited to have: Capella, Jackson, Booker and Doncic as our core going forward - at least at this writing.
I wanted Monty as our coach since D'Antoni left town. Nice choice James Jones.

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Split T
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by Split T »

I just see zero chance that Capela is available. The rockets aren't letting him go and Capela is restricted.

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TOO
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by TOO »

JustWinBaby wrote:
INFORMER wrote:
Flagrant Fowl wrote:Capella is a nice player, but Harden, Paul and D'Antoni have a lot to do with what we're seeing from him now.

He shouldn't be overpaid by the Suns for what he's done in a completely different environment.
Exactly. The Suns don't have the system or the players to maximize Capela's strengths. We wouldn't get the same Capela that the Rockets are getting.
The question becomes. If we do not Draft Ayton or another big and end up drafting Doncic for example. When and how are we ever going to get a big equal to or better than Capella?

If we do draft Doncic isn't he supposed to be an expert playmaker similar to Simmons? We also have two other potential playmakers in Booker and Jackson to get Capella the ball. Imo Capella is more than a dunk machine he is a very good rim protector as well. In addition we have just hired an offensive genius in Igor. Capellla would be a fine addition at whatever price.

I would prefer Donic + Capella rather than Ayton and no other legit playmaker. Who is going to get the ball to Ayton? It seems as though he needs that person as well.

I cannot imagine why anyone would not be excited to have: Capella, Jackson, Booker and Doncic as our core going forward - at least at this writing.
I am on the same page here.
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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

JustWinBaby wrote: Capellla would be a fine addition at whatever price.
So you're okay with signing him to $20+ million per year? Because that's what it would take to get him out of Houston.
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ShelC
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by ShelC »

I think you replace DeAndre Jordan with Capela next summer.

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JustWinBaby
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by JustWinBaby »

ShelC wrote:I think you replace DeAndre Jordan with Capela next summer.
Jordan 29 - Capella 23 - Give me some Capella
I wanted Monty as our coach since D'Antoni left town. Nice choice James Jones.

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In2ition
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by In2ition »

Imo, it will be nearly impossible to get Capela signed without Houston matching. Jordan seems like he is actually obtainable.
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O_Gardino
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by O_Gardino »

ShelC wrote:I think you replace DeAndre Jordan with Capela next summer.
Are you suggesting that we get Jordan then trade him for Capela next summer, or that next summer Capela will be viewed in the same light as Jordan - good, but the contract is too big?
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by Ring_Wanted »

Split T wrote:We've got 57 million on the books right now for 2019-2020 including the #1 and #16 picks this year but not factoring in our first rounder next year. It goes up to 67 million with Booker's cap hold and up to 84.1 million with Booker on a max.

If we use our 10-18ish million of cap space this summer, those numbers go up to 85 million and 102 million. We could then stretch knight and add 10 million in space. The cap is expected to be 108 million, so basically:

Use cap space/don't stretch Knight/Max Booker this summer - 6 million in space

Use cap space/stretch knight/Max Booker - 16 million in space

Use cap space/stretch knight/don't Max Booker - 33 million in space

Don't use cap space/don't stretch knight/Max Booker - 24 million in space

Don't use cap space/stretch knight/Max Booker - 34 million in space

Don't use cap space/stretch knight/don't Max Booker - 51 million in space
Nice breakdown.

Stretching Knight seems to me like the sensible thing to do under basically every scenario, with the caveat discussed with O_G that I'd take a 10-ish game look at him in a reduced role. The issue remains, though. Say we wait for the 2019 offseason. If the team is not winning by then, there is no way we are getting a top FA. And to start winning, we need to invest this summer.

Besides, look at the 2019 FA class.

The UFA lot is not that great. You have Kemba and Brogdon, plus Rubio, Dinwiddie, Tobias, Beverly, Mirotic and stuff, but overall not a ton of actually free talent.

Then you have a bunch of TO/PO guys, headed by Kawhi, Horford, Irving, Klay, Butler, Love, plus B-caliber stars like Millsap, Marc, Dragic (there's also Hassan and Harrison Barnes, I guess). Even with all the money in the world, we are talking about guys who basically can dictate where they want to play (the real difference makers in their prime), and PHX is a long way from being a destination again. And that's without even considering fit, like in Klay and Butler's case.

Finally, the '15 draft class becomes FRA, but KAT and Kristaps are not going anywhere. Turner? A max on him is scary but I can't imagine IND not matching with the unexpected hype they have created this year.

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ShelC
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Re: 2018 Free Agency

Post by ShelC »

Maybe Igor can be a PG whisperer and get more out of Knight than we're expecting.

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