Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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INFORMER
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by INFORMER »

O_Gardino wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:58 am
It's not about jumping 5 spots; the difference between Bridges and DiVincenzo is enormous. It's about getting the team into a winning state.

You can only suck for so long before you lose Devin Booker, and you can only count on future draft picks making or breaking your franchise while you are terrible.

Yeah, it stings to give up a potentially good pick + a potentially good prospect. That pick and Smith could turn out to be better than Bridges.

But right now we have a few very good young players and a little momentum in public opinion. There is some energy around us, and the media (and hopefully some players) expect us to start competing and winning. If we suck again this year, it's going to cost us a ton in terms of public perception, Booker's and Jackson's willingness to stay, and free agents' willingness to come here.

To me, it's a bigger gamble to take DiVincenzo. There is a lot on the line this season.
I think it is silly to act like Mikal Bridges makes or breaks the Suns season. He's a nice prospect, but he's also a role player when it is all said and done. And the draft was not the only means at the Suns disposal to improve the team. So this "now or never" false narrative and reckless abandon rings hollow for me. Plus, you just drafted a so-called "generational big;" he'll be the one to make or break the season.
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iLLmatic
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by iLLmatic »

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:23 pm
O_Gardino wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:58 am
It's not about jumping 5 spots; the difference between Bridges and DiVincenzo is enormous. It's about getting the team into a winning state.

You can only suck for so long before you lose Devin Booker, and you can only count on future draft picks making or breaking your franchise while you are terrible.

Yeah, it stings to give up a potentially good pick + a potentially good prospect. That pick and Smith could turn out to be better than Bridges.

But right now we have a few very good young players and a little momentum in public opinion. There is some energy around us, and the media (and hopefully some players) expect us to start competing and winning. If we suck again this year, it's going to cost us a ton in terms of public perception, Booker's and Jackson's willingness to stay, and free agents' willingness to come here.

To me, it's a bigger gamble to take DiVincenzo. There is a lot on the line this season.
I think it is silly to act like Mikal Bridges makes or breaks the Suns season. He's a nice prospect, but he's also a role player when it is all said and done. And the draft was not the only means at the Suns disposal to improve the team. So this "now or never" false narrative and reckless abandon rings hollow for me. Plus, you just drafted a so-called "generational big;" he'll be the one to make or break the season.
Ryan might not be employed when that pick conveys so it was a no brainer for him.

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Aztec Sunsfan
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

ShelC wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:05 am
That pick was meant for higher things
That's what bothers me. We got a real nice player in Bridges, legit one of the top prospects in the draft, but I was hoping that pick could've been used on a vet who could really move this needle this year or next. I do agree with those who say the Heat org is always on top of things in terms of putting together competitive teams so the pick would most likely be in the 10-20 range by 2021, but consider Riles is 73 years old. He may be gone or less involved with the Heat by 2021 and then, who knows what happens with the team?
Who knows!!!

That’s my point exactly, unlike many around here, I never had high hopes on that pick, really unlikely to end up on the Top10, and even the infamous Lakers Pick wasn’t a Top lottery spot after all. You can’t plan under extreme assumptions, equally bad “worthless” as “future top 5”, and I’m pretty sure the FO’s expected value of that pick might not even reach “Lottery”, and it’s the same around the league. Of course they will sell it to us as the Crown’s jewel, until they cashed in, then will take it to the other extreme (i.e. Lakers pick again).

At the end of the day, it’s basically as taking a Short Position on the Heat future performance, you either keep your bet, or get out when the time is right. If you see Mikal as a player really likely better that the one coming to you 3 years from now (and also take notice on this, “my cake today vs my cake tomorrow” carries a cost as well) you cancel your position and get out. And given that McD is against the wall to turn around this thing, his valuation of a cake today is higher that the average fan, and even higher than the average draft junkie. Overall it wasn’t a bad trade to cash in the pick (and really far from Knight trade level), Mikal is likely to be a contributor based on your own opinions and overall view.

Ultimately, the right to use this asset was his, and he exercised it. Time is up, he either finally build something successful Today, or give up the chair. Keeping the pick to allow your successor to use it, it’s a bad move for him and even for the team, as you eventually have to start taking decisions for Today. McD’s moment to do it has come.

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JCSunsfan
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by JCSunsfan »

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:23 pm
O_Gardino wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:58 am
It's not about jumping 5 spots; the difference between Bridges and DiVincenzo is enormous. It's about getting the team into a winning state.

You can only suck for so long before you lose Devin Booker, and you can only count on future draft picks making or breaking your franchise while you are terrible.

Yeah, it stings to give up a potentially good pick + a potentially good prospect. That pick and Smith could turn out to be better than Bridges.

But right now we have a few very good young players and a little momentum in public opinion. There is some energy around us, and the media (and hopefully some players) expect us to start competing and winning. If we suck again this year, it's going to cost us a ton in terms of public perception, Booker's and Jackson's willingness to stay, and free agents' willingness to come here.

To me, it's a bigger gamble to take DiVincenzo. There is a lot on the line this season.
I think it is silly to act like Mikal Bridges makes or breaks the Suns season. He's a nice prospect, but he's also a role player when it is all said and done. And the draft was not the only means at the Suns disposal to improve the team. So this "now or never" false narrative and reckless abandon rings hollow for me. Plus, you just drafted a so-called "generational big;" he'll be the one to make or break the season.
I think you are completely underestimating Bridges. The kid shot 57% from corner threes last year. His shooting was similar to Markkanen from the year before, his D was superior to JJ. And he has the athleticism and length to do the same thing on the next level.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by Mori Chu »

INF, maybe you already posted it in one of the other threads. But do you have an overall take or grade for the Suns 2018 draft as a whole? Is it another "F"? I know you liked Doncic over Ayton, and it sounds like you didn't like the Bridges trade.

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SDC
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by SDC »

good for mcdo to turn 16 into a valuable player. Now you need a point guard to make it back into the playoffs.

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INFORMER
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by INFORMER »

JCSunsfan wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:35 pm
I think you are completely underestimating Bridges. The kid shot 57% from corner threes last year. His shooting was similar to Markkanen from the year before, his D was superior to JJ. And he has the athleticism and length to do the same thing on the next level.
Right: a good 3&D role player. That's what you just described. That definitely has value. Just not what the Suns paid for.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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TOO
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by TOO »

There are varying degrees of role players, if he's Klay Thompson, you absolutely got what you paid for.
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INFORMER
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by INFORMER »

I didn't realize people were thinking he is going to be that good. That explains a lot.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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Indy
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by Indy »

INFORMER wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:28 pm
I didn't realize people were thinking he is going to be that good. That explains a lot.
Nobody thinks he is going to be Klay. Well, at least I hope nobody would put $1000 on that and expect it to pay off.

And even if he is a perfect fit as a 3-D guy, we did over pay. But it would be silly to think that Ryan is going to keep his assets for the next GM that he acquired (in one of his only good trades). He was in the "I better spend it before I lose it" mode. I am fine with it. Not happy, but not pissed. I would say that Ryan did better than I expected in the draft. So now I am just waiting for him to throw too much money at Gordon or someone else we will regret in 2 years.

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TOO
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by TOO »

I'm 100% stoked if he's Otto Porter. Gimme elite defense and elite 3pt shooting and I am more than happy. I have little faith that the Miami pick will be anything of grand significance, that team just doesnt stay bad for long. Now this potential age limit being discussed, there is potentially no more one and dones. So I like the trade, unless Bridges is a bum, which I doubt, I believe we won it handily.
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Superbone
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by Superbone »

Many of you guys overvalue these draft picks. If Bridges becomes the player I think he's going to become for us, it was a fair trade. Plus, it's very hard to know the value of that Miami pick at this point in time. Acting like you do is dubious at best. There is a very good chance that a player of Bridges' caliber will not be available with that pick. Also, we need players now. Eight years of playoff drought are enough. Time to start going in the right direction.
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Indy
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by Indy »

Superbone wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:56 pm
Many of you guys overvalue these draft picks. If Bridges becomes the player I think he's going to become for us, it was a fair trade. Plus, it's very hard to know the value of that Miami pick at this point in time. Acting like you do is dubious at best. There is a very good chance that a player of Bridges' caliber will not be available with that pick. Also, we need players now. Eight years of playoff drought are enough. Time to start going in the right direction.
A) If what has been said turns out to be true about that year being the end of one-and-done, then that draft will be deeper than most drafts with all the top HS and one-and-dones in the same draft. So all things being equal, you would know that pick is better than on in 2018-2020.

B) With the flattened lottery odds, even a well-constructed Miami team in 2020 is just an injury away from being in the lottery. It was a very valuable asset to give away to move up 6 spots to #10.

All that said, I am fine with it. It wasn't a good trade today, but we hope it becomes one by 2021.

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INFORMER
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by INFORMER »

Superbone wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:56 pm
Plus, it's very hard to know the value of that Miami pick at this point in time. Acting like you do is dubious at best.
We don't know. That's the point. But the fact that is unprotected and that it is looking it is going to be a loaded draft and seeing how mediocre that Miami team is right now without any significant high level talent on it, I like the value of the pick just fine, enough so to either hold on to it, or to use it for something more than someone who is going to be playing behind Devin Booker and Josh Jackson.

It is incredible that Ryan and posters here made the same justifications about the Lakers pick, and that proved to be wrong. So wrong. And yet, here we are again doing the same thing.

If the Suns had passed on Jackson and gone with Ntilikina or Lauri Markkannen, then this move would be a little more justified. It would still make me uncomfortable, but I wouldn't hate it.
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INFORMER
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by INFORMER »

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:49 pm
I'm 100% stoked if he's Otto Porter. Gimme elite defense and elite 3pt shooting and I am more than happy.
Yikes, Otto Porter is pretty mediocre and is on an awful contract. You're setting the bar low.
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TOO
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by TOO »

:roll: You live in your world, I'll live in mine. Otto Porter I believe was a top 25 guy in the league in win shares. Elite defender and shooter, but if you think thats mediocre, then I dont know what to you tell you.

Also, his contract has zero to do with this discussion.
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INFORMER
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by INFORMER »

I don't really go off of win shares.

I've honestly never heard anyone describe his defense as elite. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't have the same opinion of Otto Porter. But yeah, I'll go back to living in my world. Thanks.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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ShelC
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by ShelC »

Otto Porter sucks. He's gotten better with his shot but he's a dime a dozen guy and highly overrated. Bridges will be a better pro. More fundamentally sound overall, better winner, will be a better defender and shooter.

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Shabazz
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by Shabazz »

INFORMER wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:28 pm
Superbone wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:56 pm
Plus, it's very hard to know the value of that Miami pick at this point in time. Acting like you do is dubious at best.
We don't know. That's the point. But the fact that is unprotected and that it is looking it is going to be a loaded draft and seeing how mediocre that Miami team is right now without any significant high level talent on it, I like the value of the pick just fine, enough so to either hold on to it, or to use it for something more than someone who is going to be playing behind Devin Booker and Josh Jackson.

It is incredible that Ryan and posters here made the same justifications about the Lakers pick, and that proved to be wrong. So wrong. And yet, here we are again doing the same thing.

If the Suns had passed on Jackson and gone with Ntilikina or Lauri Markkannen, then this move would be a little more justified. It would still make me uncomfortable, but I wouldn't hate it.
For me the issue with the pick (and he Lakers one) was always one of opportunity cost. Like Brett Brown said, that’s a “star hunting” asset, a piece to be used when the next disgruntled star becomes available. If we’re not able to put together a competitive offer the next time one of those guys is out there, that will have been the cost of the trade.

I still don’t quite know if I dislike it though. It’s much better than the Knight trade for me.

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TOO
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Re: Mikal Bridges, Welcome to Phoenix!

Post by TOO »

ShelC wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:53 pm
Otto Porter sucks. He's gotten better with his shot but he's a dime a dozen guy and highly overrated. Bridges will be a better pro. More fundamentally sound overall, better winner, will be a better defender and shooter.
Oh good grief.
👀 Fire Frank Vogel.

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