Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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INFORMER
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by INFORMER »

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:26 pm
If Portland called offering Lillard for Jackson/Chriss/Warren and some picks I'd say yes so fast the phone would explode.
Obviously Lillard is a superior talent, but I just don't believe a Lillard-Booker backcourt can win it all.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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UglyTruth
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by UglyTruth »

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:38 pm
TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:01 pm
For the life of me I can't see why Chriss isn't out there, unless they are shopping him
I don't think there is anything for Chriss to accomplish in the summer league. He needs to just bring it consistently in the regular season, and work on his 3 ball.

Frankly, I'm even regretting Jackson being out there.
Jackson needs it because he needs to improve his floor vision and playmaking. This type of play in unacceptable from a 2nd year player of Jackson's caliber.

https://twitter.com/esidery/status/1015810656770064385


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INFORMER
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by INFORMER »

The Bobster wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:27 pm
2-game totals for Ayton - 48 min, 9/14 FG, 7/9 FT, 25 pts, 17 reb, 2 blk

And people are complaining?
Watch the game. At that point, it was very underwhelming. You don't want the number one pick in the draft consistently disappearing and having little to no impact on the game.

I don't think complaining is warranted, but you also have to be honest about what is going on out there.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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INFORMER
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by INFORMER »

Xylus wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:28 pm
Ayton hitting the open shooter every time
His passing is NBA ready.
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INFORMER
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by INFORMER »

iLLmatic wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:36 pm
Figuring out his shot is a riddle I'm not sure he can solve. He takes bad shots and has a broken jump shot.
Joe Johnson struggled with his shot until the second half of his 3rd season in the league.
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by INFORMER »

TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:15 pm
Around the internet its funny to see people praising Giles but Ayton somehow played poorly.
I don't think it is accurate to say Ayton played "poorly", but Giles was a difference-maker on both ends for nearly all the time he was out there. He was the most impressive player out there.
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

I'm really surprised to see Giles playing so well. If I were the Kings, I'd take him out of SL now. No reason to risk an injury in meaningless games.
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INFORMER
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by INFORMER »

Agreed.
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SDC
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by SDC »

[youtube][/youtube]

this was supposed to be ayton's highlight clip, but i only noticed his lack of effort on defense.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by Mori Chu »

I thought Ayton had a great game. 21 points and a double-double. He seemed a bit passive, but I think a lot of that is that the guards didn't get him the ball. He does need to work on establishing post position; he didn't seem to know how to do that. But he's a great finisher and he's great at passing out of double teams.

Okobo looks very promising. A lot of folks seem to like Harrison, but I didn't see much. Harrison has long arms and seems like a good defender, but I just hate these PGs who aren't elite at either passing or shooting/scoring or both.

I gotta say that my SL MVP for the Suns so far has been Davon Reed. Wow. He's been excellent. I said prior to SL that I didn't know what folks saw in him. Now I get it. Dunno if it can translate into real NBA games, but the guy has played great. Also been impressed with Bridges though he hasn't been quite as awesome as Reed. Both have been sharpshooters which is a very welcome sight on this roster.

I'm the biggest Bender fan, but he just doesn't look good in these games. He's physically awkward, tentative, and he makes tons of dumb mistakes like throwing the ball out of bounds, not knowing when to shoot it or not to shoot it, and being in the wrong place on the floor. I don't want to give up on him yet; he's still one of the youngest guys out on the floor.

Josh Jackson is playing pretty well overall, and I liked his blocks and his energy overall. But I gotta say that to me his horrible jump shot takes away any good will that he earns on the defensive end. His jumper is just hideous. He also doesn't have the best shot selection; I've seen him go for pull-up 3s a couple times per game in SL and they just clang off the rim. For all the talk about how he's working on his shooting, I don't see it yet in the actual games. I don't care about the shooting percentage so much as the form, the arc, and the shot selection. Those should all be things he can learn to control, and then the FG% should follow. I don't see it yet. I'm still worried that he may not be a guy you can have as an NBA starter unless he fixes his shooting.

I do think this SL roster is a microcosm of some things we'll see during the regular season. Specifically the guards being unable to feed Ayton or take advantage of his presence. We really need to get a better starting PG. Brandon Knight is not going to be the guy to feed the big man and get a bunch of assists running our offense. Even if he comes back at 100% of his level before the injury, that just isn't the kind of player he is. We urgently need a better starting PG IMO. We also have so many talented 2/3 swingmen that we ought to trade some of them to get that PG.

It's still a ton of fun seeing the Suns young players on the floor. We may have gone 3-for-3 with our 2018 draft picks: Ayton, Bridges, and Okobo. They all look good out there, among our best players on the roster. That's great to see.

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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by Superbone »

Good stuff, Marty. Jackson needs to learn not to force his offense. His moves will draw 2 or sometimes even 3 defenders and he needs to learn to pass to his open teammates rather than force the issue and get the ball stripped.
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by gosuns »

The Bobster wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:27 pm
2-game totals for Ayton - 48 min, 9/14 FG, 7/9 FT, 25 pts, 17 reb, 2 blk

And people are complaining?
He has played smart and under control, passed well out of double teams. He just isn’t flashy like an Embiid right now, but so stable and solid as a rock. More early Dwight Howard with great caracter and attitude. I like him.

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Xylus
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by Xylus »

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:49 pm
The Bobster wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:27 pm
2-game totals for Ayton - 48 min, 9/14 FG, 7/9 FT, 25 pts, 17 reb, 2 blk

And people are complaining?
Watch the game. At that point, it was very underwhelming. You don't want the number one pick in the draft consistently disappearing and having little to no impact on the game.
I don't think there was any extended stretch where he had little to no impact. Ayton doesn't need to pound it inside every play when his gravitational pull on the defense is so strong. His presence alone forces the opponent to overreact every time the ball comes to him down low. I think we all want to see him punish his defender using his athleticism and post skills, but he's clearly looking to make what he thinks is the smart play. Had our shooters rewarded his passing, this game would have been over in the 1st half.

But I agree with you that the stats don't tell the story. Last night was a quiet 21/12, with many of his points coming in garbage time. He needs to be more aggressive on offense rather than looking for the pass every time. The coaching staff needs to work with him on creating space with his body and establishing position early and often. He has an immediate advantage here given his size, he just needs to learn it. They also need to teach him help defense, because he doesn't seem have to any understanding of it.

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SDC
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by SDC »

early take: ayton is the poor mans version of a young hassan whiteside

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Re: RE: Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by carey »

SDC wrote:early take: ayton is the poor mans version of a young hassan whiteside
Dude.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by INFORMER »

SDC wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:31 am
early take: ayton is the poor mans version of a young hassan whiteside
Young Hassan Whiteside was awful. And even Hassan Whiteside now isn't anything like Ayton. Ayton's passing is more advanced than Whiteside, and he has better scoring skills. Whiteside is a far better rim protector.
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Re: RE: Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by TOO »

carey wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:57 am
SDC wrote:early take: ayton is the poor mans version of a young hassan whiteside
Dude.
:lol:
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by TOO »

I'm really interested to see how much space Booker and Ayton will give each other when they share the court. Knight/Booker/Bridges/Ariza/Ayton should be able to space the floor and allow for some 1 on 1 matchups for both guys.
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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by TOO »

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 11:46 pm
TheOriginalOriginal wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:26 pm
If Portland called offering Lillard for Jackson/Chriss/Warren and some picks I'd say yes so fast the phone would explode.
Obviously Lillard is a superior talent, but I just don't believe a Lillard-Booker backcourt can win it all.
I think it can, just would have to depend on the wings and Ayton doubling down on their defensive duties. It would also allow Booker to pick up some of his own defensive slack because he wouldn't have to be the main guy doing everything offensively. Or at least I'd hope thats how it'd work.
👀 Fire Frank Vogel.

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Re: Game Day (Summer League): Suns (1-0) @ Kings (0-0), Sat 7/7/18

Post by Superbone »

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 766084002/

Here's part of the problem:
“That’s something he’s got to learn,” Jackson added. “How to hold guys off and give us a target. Reach one hand up so we can deliver it to him. When we get it to him, he’s really good in there with it.”

That might require, in addition to better body position, a mindset change from Ayton.

“I let the game come to me,” he said. “I tell my teammates, ‘If you don’t see the pass, don’t throw it. Don’t force it.’ I’m not a guy who will really try to force myself and hunt shots down.”
Ayton doesn't currently understand that he has to do work ahead of time and demand the ball. You do need to "force" yourself. You need to understand that you're bigger and more skilled than most other guys and we want you to dominate.
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