All Things Ayton

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Mori Chu
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Mori Chu »

The sad thing is, we had just about gotten free of our "Suns/Sarver are cheap" reputation. Saver had been a fairly good boy in recent years, ponying up for Booker and generally letting GM James Jones do reasonable things to try to improve our team. But now when it's time to actually lock down that team for the next 4-5 years, here he goes being a cheapskate again. Doesn't he realize that he's setting himself up to be hated by yet another generation of NBA players? Guys who are 23-25 years old don't really remember his cheap ass cheaping out on Joe Johnson or Kurt Thomas or Rajon Rondo or Andre Iguodala or any number of other transactions. But they'll remember this.

What a shitty owner Robert Sarver is. If we never win a title, it'll be because of his stupid ass.

JeremyG
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by JeremyG »

Exactly. Just when we had gotten past the #SarverOut campaign and Sarver threatening to move the team out of AZ, he makes people hate him all over again.

And it's not just another generation of NBA players that will hate him, but another generation of Suns/NBA fans.

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Split T
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Split T »

I’ll wait till 10/19 to draw any conclusions about Sarver
Thad Young please

kiranjitphx2
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by kiranjitphx2 »

Phoenix is clutch!!!


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kiranjitphx2
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by kiranjitphx2 »

We just won against the Trail Blazers!!!


Up by 45


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JeremyG
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by JeremyG »

I am willing to bet that there is no deal done for either Ayton or Bridges before the 19th, if anyone wants to make a bet.

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Split T
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Split T »

What if Bridges and Ayton are both asking for the max? How do we navigate that? In that sense we may need to let it play out and sign them next offseason.
Thad Young please

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AmareIsGod
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by AmareIsGod »

Split T wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:34 pm
What if Bridges and Ayton are both asking for the max? How do we navigate that? In that sense we may need to let it play out and sign them next offseason.
Serious question for most here. Does Bridges deserve a max and Ayton doesn't? I feel Ayton has proven and shown far more consistency than Bridges.
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. You got dudes like Joel Embiid, Anthony Davis, all these 7-footers, doing everything. There's no stopping us. - Ayton

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Superbone
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Superbone »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:17 pm
Split T wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:34 pm
What if Bridges and Ayton are both asking for the max? How do we navigate that? In that sense we may need to let it play out and sign them next offseason.
Serious question for most here. Does Bridges deserve a max and Ayton doesn't? I feel Ayton has proven and shown far more consistency than Bridges.
No, I don't think Bridges deserves a max contract.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing. ACCOMPLISHED! 34 wins in a shortened season! Like it mattered. We rarely see Wormwood anyway!

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Flagrant Fowl »

There is so much nuance with these contracts. It's not as easy as saying "player X" should be paid the same as "player Y" because of their draft year, age, etc.

I'm not going to spend the time going into it deeper unless these guys aren't signed by the deadline.
UOducks4life in a previous life. Valar Morghulis.

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Indy
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Indy »

Bridges doesn't deserve the max at all. But I don't think he has shown less consistency than Ayton.

kiranjitphx2
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by kiranjitphx2 »

Devin booker deserves it


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Split T
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Split T »

AmareIsGod wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:17 pm
Split T wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:34 pm
What if Bridges and Ayton are both asking for the max? How do we navigate that? In that sense we may need to let it play out and sign them next offseason.
Serious question for most here. Does Bridges deserve a max and Ayton doesn't? I feel Ayton has proven and shown far more consistency than Bridges.
I disagree with this quite a bit. Bridges has shown far more consistency than Ayton. Still, no I do not think Bridges deserves a max. At this point I’d say Ayton had a higher ceiling. He has not shown to me he is a max player yet, but he has shown it’s within his possibilities. Basically, Ayton is more important, but Bridges is a better player at the moment. Now if Ayton plays the whole season like he did in the playoffs? Yes that would change things.
Thad Young please

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Mori Chu
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Mori Chu »

Bridges has been more consistent, but Bridges has never played even close to as well in a big situation as Ayton did during this past season's playoff run. If Bridges had ever been as impactful and dominant as Ayton was during that run, it might be different. But Bridges seems to be showing that he is a strong roleplaying SF who plays great defense, is pretty good at 3-point shooting, is unselfish, and is a mediocre/poor but improving ballhandler and playmaker. He's a nice player to have on our team, but you don't max out a guy like that, not even close.

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Split T
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Split T »

Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:34 am
Bridges has been more consistent, but Bridges has never played even close to as well in a big situation as Ayton did during this past season's playoff run. If Bridges had ever been as impactful and dominant as Ayton was during that run, it might be different. But Bridges seems to be showing that he is a strong roleplaying SF who plays great defense, is pretty good at 3-point shooting, is unselfish, and is a mediocre/poor but improving ballhandler and playmaker. He's a nice player to have on our team, but you don't max out a guy like that, not even close.
Ya that was kind of my point. But he is going to get close to the max and I don’t think it’s crazy to think he might feel like he could get even closer after another year, especially a year where he spends a lot more time on ball. If he has a breakout year, he’s getting maxxed next off season…assuming we don’t lock him up now.
Thad Young please

JeremyG
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by JeremyG »

Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:27 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:17 pm
Split T wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:34 pm
What if Bridges and Ayton are both asking for the max? How do we navigate that? In that sense we may need to let it play out and sign them next offseason.
Serious question for most here. Does Bridges deserve a max and Ayton doesn't? I feel Ayton has proven and shown far more consistency than Bridges.
I disagree with this quite a bit. Bridges has shown far more consistency than Ayton. Still, no I do not think Bridges deserves a max. At this point I’d say Ayton had a higher ceiling. He has not shown to me he is a max player yet, but he has shown it’s within his possibilities. Basically, Ayton is more important, but Bridges is a better player at the moment. Now if Ayton plays the whole season like he did in the playoffs? Yes that would change things.
How is Bridges a better player? Can you point to any specific ways that he has shown to be better than Ayton over the course of a season? I mean obviously he's a better 3-point shooter, but to claim that he's a better player overall just blows my mind.

As for consistency, last (regular) season Bridges had 21 games of scoring in single digits (16 games with <8 points, including 0 points a couple times!), compared to 16 single-digit games for Ayton (only 7 games with <8 points).

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Split T
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Split T »

JeremyG wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:13 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:27 am
AmareIsGod wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:17 pm
Split T wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:34 pm
What if Bridges and Ayton are both asking for the max? How do we navigate that? In that sense we may need to let it play out and sign them next offseason.
Serious question for most here. Does Bridges deserve a max and Ayton doesn't? I feel Ayton has proven and shown far more consistency than Bridges.
I disagree with this quite a bit. Bridges has shown far more consistency than Ayton. Still, no I do not think Bridges deserves a max. At this point I’d say Ayton had a higher ceiling. He has not shown to me he is a max player yet, but he has shown it’s within his possibilities. Basically, Ayton is more important, but Bridges is a better player at the moment. Now if Ayton plays the whole season like he did in the playoffs? Yes that would change things.
How is Bridges a better player? Can you point to any specific ways that he has shown to be better than Ayton over the course of a season? I mean obviously he's a better 3-point shooter, but to claim that he's a better player overall just blows my mind.

As for consistency, last (regular) season Bridges had 21 games of scoring in single digits (16 games with <8 points, including 0 points a couple times!), compared to 16 single-digit games for Ayton (only 7 games with <8 points).
Take the playoffs out of your memory…I feel the general consensus last year was that Bridges was our 3rd piece over Ayton.

I don’t really care about scoring. As Shamet says, it’s a we score type team. Advanced stats during the season are pretty back and forth. Ayton takes PER and WS(barely). Bridges takes TS% and BPM. EPM has Ayton at 2.3, slightly ahead of Bridges at 2.2. They were pretty close. Now Ayton was clearly better in the playoffs, I won’t argue that, but my main issue is consistency.

Bridges just does the right thing every time. He plays great defense, he hits open shots, he makes the right pass, the right cut. He’s trustworthy. Now he currently has a cap on what he does for us(though I’d love to see him raise that cap). Ayton has a much higher cap, but the floor is much lower. How many games did he have where he just seemed uninterested or unengaged last year? He puts up numbers because he’s a huge part of the offense and is just huge in general, but when he doesn’t show up, it hurts us a lot.

I hope the playoffs were a turning point for him, but he’s saying the same stuff as he always does, like he wants to not play that way anymore. I just don’t trust him yet. Let’s see what he does this season.
Thad Young please

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ShelC
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by ShelC »

Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:12 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:34 am
Bridges has been more consistent, but Bridges has never played even close to as well in a big situation as Ayton did during this past season's playoff run. If Bridges had ever been as impactful and dominant as Ayton was during that run, it might be different. But Bridges seems to be showing that he is a strong roleplaying SF who plays great defense, is pretty good at 3-point shooting, is unselfish, and is a mediocre/poor but improving ballhandler and playmaker. He's a nice player to have on our team, but you don't max out a guy like that, not even close.
Ya that was kind of my point. But he is going to get close to the max and I don’t think it’s crazy to think he might feel like he could get even closer after another year, especially a year where he spends a lot more time on ball. If he has a breakout year, he’s getting maxxed next off season…assuming we don’t lock him up now.
Bridges would have to turn into Paul George or Jayson Tatum this season to be in the convo for a max contract.

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Indy
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Indy »

ShelC wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:31 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:12 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:34 am
Bridges has been more consistent, but Bridges has never played even close to as well in a big situation as Ayton did during this past season's playoff run. If Bridges had ever been as impactful and dominant as Ayton was during that run, it might be different. But Bridges seems to be showing that he is a strong roleplaying SF who plays great defense, is pretty good at 3-point shooting, is unselfish, and is a mediocre/poor but improving ballhandler and playmaker. He's a nice player to have on our team, but you don't max out a guy like that, not even close.
Ya that was kind of my point. But he is going to get close to the max and I don’t think it’s crazy to think he might feel like he could get even closer after another year, especially a year where he spends a lot more time on ball. If he has a breakout year, he’s getting maxxed next off season…assuming we don’t lock him up now.
Bridges would have to turn into Paul George or Jayson Tatum this season to be in the convo for a max contract.
If he shows more of an on-ball offensive game and gets 18-20 ppg, while keeping the rest of his game, someone would give him a max contract offer in FA.

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Split T
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Re: All Things Ayton

Post by Split T »

ShelC wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:31 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:12 am
Mori Chu wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:34 am
Bridges has been more consistent, but Bridges has never played even close to as well in a big situation as Ayton did during this past season's playoff run. If Bridges had ever been as impactful and dominant as Ayton was during that run, it might be different. But Bridges seems to be showing that he is a strong roleplaying SF who plays great defense, is pretty good at 3-point shooting, is unselfish, and is a mediocre/poor but improving ballhandler and playmaker. He's a nice player to have on our team, but you don't max out a guy like that, not even close.
Ya that was kind of my point. But he is going to get close to the max and I don’t think it’s crazy to think he might feel like he could get even closer after another year, especially a year where he spends a lot more time on ball. If he has a breakout year, he’s getting maxxed next off season…assuming we don’t lock him up now.
Bridges would have to turn into Paul George or Jayson Tatum this season to be in the convo for a max contract.
No he wouldn’t. Brandon Ingram, Gordon Hayward, Pascal Siakim, Nic Batum, Tobías Harris, Khris Middleton, Andrew Wiggins…All of them signed max deals at one time.

If Bridges shows he can handle more off the dribble stuff and puts up something like 18/5/3/1/1 and keeps his 50/40/85 shooting splits, while being an All-nba defender, he’s for sure getting a max deal from someone next summer.
Thad Young please

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