Re: All Things Ayton
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:42 pm
They don’t owe us an explanation. I’m completely fine with them keeping their reasons in house.
They don’t owe us an explanation. I’m completely fine with them keeping their reasons in house.
Would this also apply if they refused to extend Booker? Or does that standard only apply to Ayton?Split T wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:42 pmThey don’t owe us an explanation. I’m completely fine with them keeping their reasons in house.
MightyMoog wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:25 amI’m so relieved Ayton has started playing the way he has. Now you don’t worry as much giving him the max. As he’s looking very capable of becoming an All Star. He’s already the 3rd best center in the west, and is knocking on Gobert’s spot.
specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:02 pmWHO IS THIS GUY ON OUR TEAM AND WHAT DID HE DO WITH DEANDRE AYton!!! Holy shit. What a way to steal a game from Scott Foster. Sign this guy to the max.
Cap wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:43 amWhy Ayton was the right No. 1 pick: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/316 ... oenix-suns
ShelC wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:35 amAlso, here's a very good article from David Kevin. [...] He thinks the best route (in terms of cap use) would be to have Paul opt in to the 44mil, then give him a 2 yr ext for 50-60 mil so it ends up 100mil or so over 3 years, rather than a 3yr deal this offseason for the same amount. This would allow us to re-sign Payne using his Bird Rights to give him something like 30mil over 3.
Then it's a max deal for DA, something around 4yrs 90-100mil for Mikal.
Hmmm...I wonder what changed during an offseason.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:22 amThat sounds about right to me, Shel. [...]
Speaking of Ayton, he's proved he's worth a max level contract.
James Jones knows better than us?JeremyG wrote:I thought it might be interesting to take a look back at what everyone thought about this topic before free agency began:
MightyMoog wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:25 amI’m so relieved Ayton has started playing the way he has. Now you don’t worry as much giving him the max. As he’s looking very capable of becoming an All Star. He’s already the 3rd best center in the west, and is knocking on Gobert’s spot.specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:02 pmWHO IS THIS GUY ON OUR TEAM AND WHAT DID HE DO WITH DEANDRE AYton!!! Holy shit. What a way to steal a game from Scott Foster. Sign this guy to the max.Cap wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:43 amWhy Ayton was the right No. 1 pick: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/316 ... oenix-sunsShelC wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:35 amAlso, here's a very good article from David Kevin. [...] He thinks the best route (in terms of cap use) would be to have Paul opt in to the 44mil, then give him a 2 yr ext for 50-60 mil so it ends up 100mil or so over 3 years, rather than a 3yr deal this offseason for the same amount. This would allow us to re-sign Payne using his Bird Rights to give him something like 30mil over 3.
Then it's a max deal for DA, something around 4yrs 90-100mil for Mikal.Hmmm...I wonder what changed during an offseason.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:22 amThat sounds about right to me, Shel. [...]
Speaking of Ayton, he's proved he's worth a max level contract.
You are getting it wrong.
Simply, we cooled off. That's why teams are not allowed to negotiate out of the proper periods, to avoid overreacting, because... You can as well collect an entire set of posting in the opposite direction every time the Kid was dragging his feet. You are nit picking poster's feelings in the middle of a playoffs run, many of them during games.JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:16 pmI thought it might be interesting to take a look back at what everyone thought about this topic before free agency began:
MightyMoog wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:25 amI’m so relieved Ayton has started playing the way he has. Now you don’t worry as much giving him the max. As he’s looking very capable of becoming an All Star. He’s already the 3rd best center in the west, and is knocking on Gobert’s spot.specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:02 pmWHO IS THIS GUY ON OUR TEAM AND WHAT DID HE DO WITH DEANDRE AYton!!! Holy shit. What a way to steal a game from Scott Foster. Sign this guy to the max.Cap wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:43 amWhy Ayton was the right No. 1 pick: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/316 ... oenix-sunsShelC wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:35 amAlso, here's a very good article from David Kevin. [...] He thinks the best route (in terms of cap use) would be to have Paul opt in to the 44mil, then give him a 2 yr ext for 50-60 mil so it ends up 100mil or so over 3 years, rather than a 3yr deal this offseason for the same amount. This would allow us to re-sign Payne using his Bird Rights to give him something like 30mil over 3.
Then it's a max deal for DA, something around 4yrs 90-100mil for Mikal.Hmmm...I wonder what changed during an offseason.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:22 amThat sounds about right to me, Shel. [...]
Speaking of Ayton, he's proved he's worth a max level contract.
Ding ding dingAztec Sunsfan wrote:Simply, we cooled off. That's why teams are not allowed to negotiate out of the proper periods, to avoid overreacting, because... You can as well collect an entire set of posting in the opposite direction every time the Kid was dragging his feet. You are nit picking poster's feelings in the middle of a playoffs run, many of them during games.JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:16 pmI thought it might be interesting to take a look back at what everyone thought about this topic before free agency began:
MightyMoog wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:25 amI’m so relieved Ayton has started playing the way he has. Now you don’t worry as much giving him the max. As he’s looking very capable of becoming an All Star. He’s already the 3rd best center in the west, and is knocking on Gobert’s spot.specialsauce wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:02 pmWHO IS THIS GUY ON OUR TEAM AND WHAT DID HE DO WITH DEANDRE AYton!!! Holy shit. What a way to steal a game from Scott Foster. Sign this guy to the max.Cap wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:43 amWhy Ayton was the right No. 1 pick: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/316 ... oenix-sunsShelC wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:35 amAlso, here's a very good article from David Kevin. [...] He thinks the best route (in terms of cap use) would be to have Paul opt in to the 44mil, then give him a 2 yr ext for 50-60 mil so it ends up 100mil or so over 3 years, rather than a 3yr deal this offseason for the same amount. This would allow us to re-sign Payne using his Bird Rights to give him something like 30mil over 3.
Then it's a max deal for DA, something around 4yrs 90-100mil for Mikal.Hmmm...I wonder what changed during an offseason.Flagrant Fowl wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:22 amThat sounds about right to me, Shel. [...]
Speaking of Ayton, he's proved he's worth a max level contract.
You stick around here long enough and your original username still works for another player, AytonIsGod!
Pointed out his growth in the post season, whats the issue here?JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:53 pmNonsense. Ayton was arguably our most valuable player in the postseason (CP3 said that himself at one point). Without him, there is no way we would have gotten to the Finals.Oatmeal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:04 amIf they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.
My point was that a big man/center can still have tremendous value in this league, even without being "an outlier like Giannis" or being the team's top scorer.Oatmeal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:09 pmPointed out his growth in the post season, whats the issue here?JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:53 pmNonsense. Ayton was arguably our most valuable player in the postseason (CP3 said that himself at one point). Without him, there is no way we would have gotten to the Finals.Oatmeal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:04 amIf they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.
Name one. He doesn't have the aggression or skill of Giannis. He doesn't have the aggression or shooting of Embiid. He doesn't have the vision and passing of Jokic. There isn't a top big man in the league in the last 10 years that is as limited as Ayton.JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:50 pmMy point was that a big man/center can still have tremendous value in this league, even without being "an outlier like Giannis" or being the team's top scorer.Oatmeal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:09 pmPointed out his growth in the post season, whats the issue here?JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:53 pmNonsense. Ayton was arguably our most valuable player in the postseason (CP3 said that himself at one point). Without him, there is no way we would have gotten to the Finals.Oatmeal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:04 amIf they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.
I’d be a little more confused about the other two scenarios, but ya it would still apply. I think revealing your decision making process is a mistake and shows your hand.JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:49 pmWould this also apply if they refused to extend Booker? Or does that standard only apply to Ayton?Split T wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:42 pmThey don’t owe us an explanation. I’m completely fine with them keeping their reasons in house.
What if Chris Paul had left in free agency, because the Suns did not make him an offer, and James Jones just said, "We had a multitude of reasons."
They don't owe their fanbase an explanation? The fanbase that, to a large degree, pays the players' salaries?
Sure, but I do not think maxing out the guy we have is worth it. You end up like the Jazz being stuck with Goober at C, that team isnt going anywhere in the long term. We could have kept Holmes and still probably gotten to the finals IMO. Bigs can be had for less than the max and i think Jones and Co know that, the perimeter game (shooting/passing/switching) is still where the game is won and lost. Ayton feels like a luxury. He too often disappears for long stretches, like last night for example. I cannot see how maxing him is a smart business move.JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:50 pmMy point was that a big man/center can still have tremendous value in this league, even without being "an outlier like Giannis" or being the team's top scorer.Oatmeal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:09 pmPointed out his growth in the post season, whats the issue here?JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:53 pmNonsense. Ayton was arguably our most valuable player in the postseason (CP3 said that himself at one point). Without him, there is no way we would have gotten to the Finals.Oatmeal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:04 amIf they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.
Rudy Gobert is making more than the standard max and is more limited offensively than Ayton. The Jazz consider him to be extremely valuable and paid him the money to prove it. Plus Ayton keeps adding to his game and has obvious offensive potential.Indy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:35 pmName one. He doesn't have the aggression or skill of Giannis. He doesn't have the aggression or shooting of Embiid. He doesn't have the vision and passing of Jokic. There isn't a top big man in the league in the last 10 years that is as limited as Ayton.JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:50 pmMy point was that a big man/center can still have tremendous value in this league, even without being "an outlier like Giannis" or being the team's top scorer.Oatmeal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:09 pmPointed out his growth in the post season, whats the issue here?JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:53 pmNonsense. Ayton was arguably our most valuable player in the postseason (CP3 said that himself at one point). Without him, there is no way we would have gotten to the Finals.Oatmeal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:04 amIf they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.
I do not believe for one second that we would have made the Finals with Holmes instead of Ayton.Oatmeal wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:00 amSure, but I do not think maxing out the guy we have is worth it. You end up like the Jazz being stuck with Goober at C, that team isnt going anywhere in the long term. We could have kept Holmes and still probably gotten to the finals IMO. Bigs can be had for less than the max and i think Jones and Co know that, the perimeter game (shooting/passing/switching) is still where the game is won and lost. Ayton feels like a luxury. He too often disappears for long stretches, like last night for example. I cannot see how maxing him is a smart business move.JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:50 pmMy point was that a big man/center can still have tremendous value in this league, even without being "an outlier like Giannis" or being the team's top scorer.Oatmeal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:09 pmPointed out his growth in the post season, whats the issue here?JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:53 pmNonsense. Ayton was arguably our most valuable player in the postseason (CP3 said that himself at one point). Without him, there is no way we would have gotten to the Finals.Oatmeal wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:04 amIf they hadn't re-upped Bridges and Shamet, I'd have been pretty upset about the Ayton thing just because it looks bad from the outside. Jones sees the value in perimeter play, shooting and ball movement are king (unless you have an outlier like Giannis). Ayton for all of his post season growth has still played maybe 30 games that show he'd be worth a max deal. Smart business here from Jones and co. Even if it basically admits they blew it taking him first overall.
Yes, if that's the truth then he should say it. Maybe it would help motivate Ayton, if that's their goal.Split T wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:51 pmI’d be a little more confused about the other two scenarios, but ya it would still apply. I think revealing your decision making process is a mistake and shows your hand.JeremyG wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:49 pmWould this also apply if they refused to extend Booker? Or does that standard only apply to Ayton?Split T wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:42 pmThey don’t owe us an explanation. I’m completely fine with them keeping their reasons in house.
What if Chris Paul had left in free agency, because the Suns did not make him an offer, and James Jones just said, "We had a multitude of reasons."
They don't owe their fanbase an explanation? The fanbase that, to a large degree, pays the players' salaries?
Let’s say they’ve seen things or heard things from Ayton that scared them away from offering the max. Would you want James Jones to say in a press conference or on the radio that they didn’t want to give Ayton a max because they don’t have faith in him as a player? Or to say Ayton has had an inconsistent career here in Phoenix, his play in the postseason was what we want from him, but we wanted to wait and see if he could replicate that for a whole season before committing a max contract to him.
I don’t think you’d want James Jones saying either of those things publicly. That would be much worse…letting the media call Sarver cheap and that he doesn’t want to commit max money is an easier pill to swallow.