Suns Trade Dudley; Acquire Richaun Holmes

[The Bobster]

Tyson Chandler spent his first 5 seasons with the Bulls.

[Split T]

not the Tom thibideau bulls though

[Mori Chu]

As usual I'm late to the party... recently logged into .net to check up on fantasy and stayed for the chatter. I realize this thread has been inactive for a while but may not have the time to read the whole 100+ page thread before adding my 2 cents.

I agree with Inf's post that the team should be better for reasons other than signing Ariza. Regarding the Ariza signing itself, I had very mixed feelings. On the one hand I'm a little concerned that he's going to eat into the minutes of all the young guys who sorely need the on-court time to develop; on the other hand it is just a one year deal so other than minutes logjam there's no long term damage, and if he is a locker room presence as some in the media have claimed and can instill defensive minded focus into the young players, then I'm all for it. But I did also read that he was part of the raid party that went into the "secret tunnel" last year in LA, so I'm not sure how much veteran presence we are getting there. All in all I'm optimistically hopeful that Ariza can help set the defensive tone on the team.

In terms of him being an elite role player, perhaps he isn't a 40%+ three point shooter or an all NBA first team defender, but he is elite at playing a role, as in, he doesn't complain about his role like Shawn used to do, in that regard I do think he is elite.

Wondering what you guys think about the move now that we got Ryan Anderson in the mix...

I know that a good point guard is essential to the growth of other young players, but I also don't want to pick up a point guard just so we can say we have a starting caliber point guard. Of all the guys we've been linked to, I'm not terribly interested in LIllard -- he costs a lot, can lead us into the post season, but look where that got Portland; not sure what Delon Wright or Patrick Beverley can do in terms of setting up a team offense, love that they are pesky defenders but don't think they do much if we want leadership and player development; Kemba Walker is a pure scorer who isn't really know for defense or passing, plus he's a half year rental at this point; and I'm mildly interested in Scary Terry and Tyus Jones. Of the two, Rozier is also a low efficiency scorer more known for his defense than passing, plus we'd probably get taken advantage of by Ainge again, so maybe we can somehow take advantage of Minnesota's strange dynamics and get Jones. Too bad we don't have any ex-Bulls on the team. Maybe we can swing a three way trade, Chandler to NY, Noah to Wolves, and Jones and some dead salary to the Suns...

Good to see you, pickle! Don't be a stranger.

Reading your list of veteran PGs, it's hard to get too excited about any of them. They all have flaws and could cost us dearly to acquire them. Maybe McDo is biding his time because the right deal hasn't emerged yet.

[pickle]

Thanks Mori. I will try to be a little more active. Though I still haven't started on that 100 pager thread.

I guess my point of that list of PGs is that, I'm only interested in Ty Jones right now and maybe Rozier, of all the people that we've been linked to. I don't really like any of the other guys. Also I'm always struggling between letting the young PGs learn the ropes and destroying the other young players' confidence and ability to recognize a good play on the court in the process. Presumably between Booker and Jackson, and to an extent Bender and Ayton, we have plus passers at all the other four positions besides the 1, so we should still get decent ball movement if Kokoskov's system is as good as advertised and he can actually get to the players...

Also, I'm quite disappointed in what Bender showed in summer camp but I'm still not completely giving up hope yet.

[In2ition]

Thanks Mori. I will try to be a little more active. Though I still haven't started on that 100 pager thread.

I guess my point of that list of PGs is that, I'm only interested in Ty Jones right now and maybe Rozier, of all the people that we've been linked to. I don't really like any of the other guys. Also I'm always struggling between letting the young PGs learn the ropes and destroying the other young players' confidence and ability to recognize a good play on the court in the process. Presumably between Booker and Jackson, and to an extent Bender and Ayton, we have plus passers at all the other four positions besides the 1, so we should still get decent ball movement if Kokoskov's system is as good as advertised and he can actually get to the players...

Also, I'm quite disappointed in what Bender showed in summer camp but I'm still not completely giving up hope yet.

I get what you mean by destroying confidence, but at this point in the Suns timeline I would rather they get mentally tough players that aren't going to get their confidence destroyed by not getting playing time because they feel entitled to it and instead know that they need to work, work, and work some more to earn those minutes.

[AmareIsGod]

Holy crap. I totally forgot we traded for this guy. I'm AMPED! This thread floated back to the top of the list and I read it and was pleasantly surprised again.

[bajanguy008]

Holy crap. I totally forgot we traded for this guy. I'm AMPED! This thread floated back to the top of the list and I read it and was pleasantly surprised again.

Yea I'm looking forward to him also. I think many not familiar with him, he's obviously not an All Star or anything but he plays how Chriss would every once in a while "that rim protector and dynamic finisher off pick n rolls"
I just like his motor and rather him get 15mins than Tyson

[pickle]

I get what you mean by destroying confidence, but at this point in the Suns timeline I would rather they get mentally tough players that aren't going to get their confidence destroyed by not getting playing time because they feel entitled to it and instead know that they need to work, work, and work some more to earn those minutes.

I meant destroying their confidence more in the sense that we don't run proper plays and shit happens and people learn to be okay with being bad. I don't mean that we should force feed minutes to the young players who don't earn them properly.

But that logic is a bit convoluted.

All in all I'm torn between paying a premium for a marginal floor general (as there isn't a Jason Kidd available to rescue us this time) or letting the young kids figure it out by themselves without a steady hand at the helm.

What I saw from Jackson and Bender during summer league scares me a lot.

[ShelC]

Holy crap. I totally forgot we traded for this guy. I'm AMPED! This thread floated back to the top of the list and I read it and was pleasantly surprised again.

Yea I'm looking forward to him also. I think many not familiar with him, he's obviously not an All Star or anything but he plays how Chriss would every once in a while "that rim protector and dynamic finisher off pick n rolls"
I just like his motor and rather him get 15mins than Tyson

Agreed. I don't want to get too excited but he plays with a lot of energy and a lot of bounce. 4 year college guy, even if it was at a smaller school, conference defensive player of the year, broke out in 16-17 putting up 10-5-1 in 20mpg. The question will be whether Igor can find a role/time for him with Ayton, Anderson, Chandler, Bender at the 4/5. He's not the most skilled guy (has shown he can hit 3s), but his defense, hustle and above the rim play could give us a boost off the bench.

[In2ition]

I get what you mean by destroying confidence, but at this point in the Suns timeline I would rather they get mentally tough players that aren't going to get their confidence destroyed by not getting playing time because they feel entitled to it and instead know that they need to work, work, and work some more to earn those minutes.

I meant destroying their confidence more in the sense that we don't run proper plays and s*** happens and people learn to be okay with being bad. I don't mean that we should force feed minutes to the young players who don't earn them properly.

But that logic is a bit convoluted.

All in all I'm torn between paying a premium for a marginal floor general (as there isn't a Jason Kidd available to rescue us this time) or letting the young kids figure it out by themselves without a steady hand at the helm.

What I saw from Jackson and Bender during summer league scares me a lot.

I hope that both were taken as projects by Igor to address those issues. Part of Jackson's problem this summer may have stemmed from playing a role on the team that he wasn't used to or expected to this year as the #1 option and he tended to force things. I hope for the best for both of them and hope that Igor can be the whisperer to unlock their supposed potential and the time between the summer league and training camp has been fruitful. Idk, I guess we'll see.

[O_Gardino]

Igor flatly stated in an interview that the issue with Josh this summer was conditioning. He was winded, so he just didn't see the plays developing. It wasn't an intentional choice of his to go one on one all the time. He just had tunnel vision and wasn't thinking the game the way he should.

[ShelC]

Kind of troubling that young guys like Chriss and Jackson have been out of shape during the summer. I could see taking a month off after a season, especially your rookie season, but that's mid April to mid May. Get back in the gym and work for 2 months so you can crush SL.

[In2ition]

Igor flatly stated in an interview that the issue with Josh this summer was conditioning. He was winded, so he just didn't see the plays developing. It wasn't an intentional choice of his to go one on one all the time. He just had tunnel vision and wasn't thinking the game the way he should.

Interesting. I didn't hear this, but it makes more sense. Lack of conditioning could cause some bad decisions. We know he was working on his shooting form, so conditioning probably wasn't as high on his radar at the time.

[Cap]

We know he was working on his shooting form, so conditioning probably wasn't as high on his radar at the time.

There’s time enough in the day for both.

[Superbone]

Igor flatly stated in an interview that the issue with Josh this summer was conditioning. He was winded, so he just didn't see the plays developing. It wasn't an intentional choice of his to go one on one all the time. He just had tunnel vision and wasn't thinking the game the way he should.

I don't know. Josh mentioned wanting to dominate before SL started. I think he was trying too hard and not letting the game come to him.

[In2ition]

We know he was working on his shooting form, so conditioning probably wasn't as high on his radar at the time.

There’s time enough in the day for both.

Of course, but if he's concentrating on one thing, knows he doesn't have an ounce of fat on him, he may have figured he was in good enough shape.

[Shabazz]

Igor flatly stated in an interview that the issue with Josh this summer was conditioning. He was winded, so he just didn't see the plays developing. It wasn't an intentional choice of his to go one on one all the time. He just had tunnel vision and wasn't thinking the game the way he should.

I don't know. Josh mentioned wanting to dominate before SL started. I think he was trying too hard and not letting the game come to him.

I think that's what it was too. The flag for me is that other sophomores who wanted the same thing actually did look "too good to be there" while Jackson just thought that.