Suns Trade Dudley; Acquire Richaun Holmes

[INFORMER]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

[UglyTruth]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Better question, is having that extra $2 million in cap space worth not having Ariza?

[Mori Chu]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Hey, when you can lock up a 34-year old role player who stunk in the playoffs, make him one of your highest paid players, and play him out of position, benching one of your young forwards in the process, you gotta do it.

[Split T]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Another fair question. I think there's a pretty good chance Ariza doesn't sign without 15 million. At least not right away. If he doesn't get enough interest elsewhere, I think he'd eventually sign for 12/13 million, but that was more of a risk.

I know you disagree with the Ariza signing, and that makes it easier to disagree with the Dudley trade, because you're looking at all the moves as connected. Imagine for a second you agreed on the Ariza signing... Is Richaun Holmes for a top 35 protected future 2nd a good deal?

[AmareIsGod]

Let's see how Ariza plays out and what he provides the team before calling the acquisition a dud. .net is great at overreacting before the players ever hit the court together.

[Superbone]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Hey, when you can lock up a 34-year old role player who stunk in the playoffs, make him one of your highest paid players, and play him out of position, benching one of your young forwards in the process, you gotta do it.

[Superbone]

Let's see how Ariza plays out and what he provides the team before calling the acquisition a dud. .net is great at overreacting before the players ever hit the court together.

Ya think?

[Indy]

Let's see how Ariza plays out and what he provides the team before calling the acquisition a dud. .net is great at overreacting before the players ever hit the court together.

This is amazing coming from SpiveyIsGod.

[Indy]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Hey, when you can lock up a 34-year old role player who stunk in the playoffs, make him one of your highest paid players, and play him out of position, benching one of your young forwards in the process, you gotta do it.

I get the eye-roll at the pessimism, but is any of the statements he said incorrect?

34 year old role player--Check
Stunk in the playoffs--Check
Highest paid player--Check
Play him out of position (based on what we have heard about him as the PF)--Check minus (he did play plenty of time there a couple years ago)
Less time for one of our other 4s--Check (but this might be a good thing)

[Split T]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Hey, when you can lock up a 34-year old role player who stunk in the playoffs, make him one of your highest paid players, and play him out of position, benching one of your young forwards in the process, you gotta do it.

I get the eye-roll at the pessimism, but is any of the statements he said incorrect?

34 year old role player--Check
Stunk in the playoffs--Check
Highest paid player--Check
Play him out of position (based on what we have heard about him as the PF)--Check minus (he did play plenty of time there a couple years ago)
Less time for one of our other 4s--Check (but this might be a good thing)

He's actually 33.

Still, I think the eye roll is because he's focusing only on the perceived negatives and ignoring all positives Ariza brings. I could easily say

Elite role player with championship pedigree
Supplies defense and 3 pt shooting
Requires no plays run for him
Great mentor for other wings on roster
On 1 year deal that maintains our cap space next year.

Dudley was supposed to be the veteran mentor that could teach our guys how to play, but he's not playable on the court anymore. Ariza is the perfect mentor for Bridges this year, then we can let Ariza walk and have Bridges take over next year.

[Mori Chu]

I don't actually hate the Ariza signing. I dislike it, but I don't hate it. Since it is a 1-year deal, the damage is minimal. But I don't think it helps us very much, and I would rather have given those minutes to Bender and Warren, and I would rather have saved that money in case a good PG came available during the season where we could trade for him and take on more salary. So I dislike it mostly for the opportunity cost.

I also think Ariza is past his prime and isn't actually much use to a team this young and this bad. Who exactly is he going to mentor and teach? Bender? Warren? Josh Jackson? They're all very different types of players. Jackson isn't meant to be an Ariza-like forward; he's more of a ball-handler, slasher, scorer. Warren is not a 3-and-D guy like Ariza; he's more of a midrange and garbage scorer who doesn't play good defense. I don't think Warren could be molded to be like Ariza even if he wanted to. Bender is kinda sorta in the Ariza 3-and-D zone, but Bender is much more of a 4/5 than a 3/4 like Ariza is. I don't think a 7-foot player like Bender should really be taking advice from a career SF who moonlights at PF out of position. If I were wanting a mentor for Bender, I would want a guy like maybe Kevin Love.

So as I say, I don't hate the Ariza signing. But I dislike it and don't think it will help us very much.

[ShelC]

I'd have given the 15mil to Tony Parker, easily.

[AmareIsGod]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Hey, when you can lock up a 34-year old role player who stunk in the playoffs, make him one of your highest paid players, and play him out of position, benching one of your young forwards in the process, you gotta do it.

I get the eye-roll at the pessimism, but is any of the statements he said incorrect?

34 year old role player--Check
Stunk in the playoffs--Check
Highest paid player--Check
Play him out of position (based on what we have heard about him as the PF)--Check minus (he did play plenty of time there a couple years ago)
Less time for one of our other 4s--Check (but this might be a good thing)

Play him out of position (based on what we have heard about him as the PF)--Check minus (he did play plenty of time there a couple years ago)
- I call the above an assumption. Nobody has any clue how he's planned to be used. Nobody has seen Igor's offensive sets and plays. As we keep moving towards a positionless league, in many ways, it really makes me laugh when anyone assumes someone is going to be played out of position.

[Split T]

I'd have given the 15mil to Tony Parker, easily.

Gross

[Split T]

I don't actually hate the Ariza signing. I dislike it, but I don't hate it. Since it is a 1-year deal, the damage is minimal. But I don't think it helps us very much, and I would rather have given those minutes to Bender and Warren, and I would rather have saved that money in case a good PG came available during the season where we could trade for him and take on more salary. So I dislike it mostly for the opportunity cost.

I also think Ariza is past his prime and isn't actually much use to a team this young and this bad. Who exactly is he going to mentor and teach? Bender? Warren? Josh Jackson? They're all very different types of players. Jackson isn't meant to be an Ariza-like forward; he's more of a ball-handler, slasher, scorer. Warren is not a 3-and-D guy like Ariza; he's more of a midrange and garbage scorer who doesn't play good defense. I don't think Warren could be molded to be like Ariza even if he wanted to. Bender is kinda sorta in the Ariza 3-and-D zone, but Bender is much more of a 4/5 than a 3/4 like Ariza is. I don't think a 7-foot player like Bender should really be taking advice from a career SF who moonlights at PF out of position. If I were wanting a mentor for Bender, I would want a guy like maybe Kevin Love.

That's fair... If we had kept the cap space, we could have maybe used it later, but we knew they weren't going to do that. We want to win, Booker wants to win, they were always using that cap space... Ariza creates a bit of a logjam, but he's definitely useful. Maybe a PG would have made more sense, but there wasn't really one available.


As for the mentor issues...I don't think the young guys need to be an exact replica of ariza for him to mentor them...and it turns out we do have a guy that's a pretty good replica in Bridges.

[ShelC]

I'd have given the 15mil to Tony Parker, easily.

Gross

1) Fills a position of need
2) More applicable leadership from aforementioned position of need
3) Mentor to a young French PG we just drafted (along with the other 19-20 year olds on the roster)
4) Wouldn't hinder development of the other youngsters at the SF/PF positions

[Split T]

I'd have given the 15mil to Tony Parker, easily.

Gross

1) Fills a position of need
2) More applicable leadership from aforementioned position of need
3) Mentor to a young French PG we just drafted (along with the other 19-20 year olds on the roster)
4) Wouldn't hinder development of the other youngsters at the SF/PF positions

1. I'd rather play Knight
2. How is his leadership more applicable?
3. Valid
4. Fair, but I don't see how Ariza will hinder development. He'll limit minutes, but Parker would limit minutes for Okobo/Harrison as well.

I just think Parker is done. Ariza is a better basketball player at this point, IMO. He's also much more versatile as a player, can defend 2-4 and he shoots. Parker can't defend multiple positions and isn't great at his 1 position. He's also not a good shooter. I think we have enough ball handlers, which is what he really offers.

[ShelC]

Knight's an unknown and wasn't exactly stellar his last go-round. And he's never been a winning player either. I'm hoping he can work out nonetheless.

Parker as a PG on the floor would be more applicable in terms of leadership than Ariza for the simple fact that he'd be running the offense. Ariza's a 3-D guy and is reliant on others setting him up. Parker has the ball in the hands, can get guys in their spots, make the calls, calm things down when needed, and show the team how to respond when it's winning time.

In terms of minutes...Ariza is probably playing at least 30mpg. You have Jackson, Warren, Bridges, Bender and Chriss needing minutes between the SF/PF spots. So someone's getting cut out of the mix unless we go real small.

I don't care about defending multiple positions. Parker's a PG. He guards PGs. Guarding multiple positions falls on Jackson, Warren, Bridges and even Bender and Chriss.

If he doesn't have anything left, that's a different story. I think he was being limited by Pop. Wouldn't be surprised if he plays a more integral role in Charlotte.

[Mori Chu]

As for the mentor issues...I don't think the young guys need to be an exact replica of ariza for him to mentor them...and it turns out we do have a guy that's a pretty good replica in Bridges.

I agree that Bridges is the best match for Ariza in terms of overall skillset. My best case scenario for Ariza's year here is that he rubs off a bit on the young guys, shows them how to work hard, hustle to get open for a shot, play stifling defense, leading quietly by example. Maybe helps with the overall vibe in the locker room and effort level. I just really don't want to see young guys ride the bench while a guy who likely doesn't have a long-term future here takes all the PF minutes.

[Split T]

Knight's an unknown and wasn't exactly stellar his last go-round. And he's never been a winning player either. I'm hoping he can work out nonetheless.

Parker as a PG on the floor would be more applicable in terms of leadership than Ariza for the simple fact that he'd be running the offense. Ariza's a 3-D guy and is reliant on others setting him up. Parker has the ball in the hands, can get guys in their spots, make the calls, calm things down when needed, and show the team how to respond when it's winning time.

In terms of minutes...Ariza is probably playing at least 30mpg. You have Jackson, Warren, Bridges, Bender and Chriss needing minutes between the SF/PF spots. So someone's getting cut out of the mix unless we go real small.

I don't care about defending multiple positions. Parker's a PG. He guards PGs. Guarding multiple positions falls on Jackson, Warren, Bridges and even Bender and Chriss.

If he doesn't have anything left, that's a different story. I think he was being limited by Pop. Wouldn't be surprised if he plays a more integral role in Charlotte.

We'll see I guess. Parker was pretty bad last year though...I think his useful days are in the past.