Suns Trade Dudley; Acquire Richaun Holmes

[UglyTruth]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Not sure. But if all they really wanted was a 33 year old 3 & D player then why did they even trade away PJ Tucker in the first place?

He’s making half the salary that Ariza is making next season.

[AmareIsGod]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Not sure. But if all they really wanted was a 33 year old 3 & D player then why did they even trade away PJ Tucker in the first place?

He’s making half the salary that Ariza is making next season.

Because it's the upcoming 2018 - 2019 season, FA options were thin, it's a 1 year deal, we have a different coaching staff and different roster.

Should I continue? If we want to go back in time and have the same aqusition in 2017, etc., this deal probably doesn't make the most sense. With an abundant FA market next season, I'm not sure why the panic and disappointment. What else should we have spent the money on? If he can impact our roster this season while he's here by instilling defense in our young roster, and by all accounts he rips into players that don't play defense, what's the harm?

And for all of the continued moaning and groaning, not a single person griping has provided alternative options that would be better signings, assuming those players anyone might propose would want to come here in the first place.

[Split T]

If you're trying to forecast how many 3s Trevor Ariza is going to hit, you need to think about the players around him. Part of why Ariza got so many good looks in Houston is because he had two excellent guards on the floor running the offense in Chris Paul and James Harden. The Suns don't have a single player on the roster who is good at distributing the ball or running an offense. I don't think Ariza is going to get nearly as many good looks from 3 this year as he got in the past, so I suspect his percentage and efficiency will go way down.

Ariza is a player that has been very fortunate in terms of playing with playmakers...he’s played with the likes of Kyle Lowry, Chris Paul (in New Orleans too), John Wall, and James Harden to name a few.

Going from that to Brandon Knight must be quite terrifying for him.

I don't really think Ariza is someone who benefits greatly from elite playmakers. He's a spot up shooter, just about anyone can make those passes. Knight and Booker are plenty capable as playmakers. Still, he's going to be more effected by players drawing attention from their scoring ability. Booker does that, Ayton might, Warren might, and the AASE version of Knight can too.

Also...Ariza played with the off the bench, backing up Aaron Brooks, version of Lowry. Not the raptors Lowry. He also played with Jarret Jack and the aforementioned Aaron Brooks.

[Mori Chu]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Not sure. But if all they really wanted was a 33 year old 3 & D player then why did they even trade away PJ Tucker in the first place?

He’s making half the salary that Ariza is making next season.

Because it's the upcoming 2018 - 2019 season, FA options were thin, it's a 1 year deal, we have a different coaching staff and different roster.

Should I continue? If we want to go back in time and have the same aqusition in 2017, etc., this deal probably doesn't make the most sense. With an abundant FA market next season, I'm not sure why the panic and disappointment. What else should we have spent the money on? If he can impact our roster this season while he's here by instilling defense in our young roster, and by all accounts he rips into players that don't play defense, what's the harm?

And for all of the continued moaning and groaning, not a single person griping has provided alternative options that would be better signings, assuming those players anyone might propose would want to come here in the first place.

I provided my option that I thought would be better: just don't sign Ariza, and keep the cap space. Give the minutes to young guys like Bender, Chriss, and Warren at the 4. Keep the cap flexibility to acquire a player(s) during the season to address needs once we know what we have, and/or to help facilitate a trade and acquire an asset/pick.

[Superbone]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Not sure. But if all they really wanted was a 33 year old 3 & D player then why did they even trade away PJ Tucker in the first place?

He’s making half the salary that Ariza is making next season.

Because it's the upcoming 2018 - 2019 season, FA options were thin, it's a 1 year deal, we have a different coaching staff and different roster.

Should I continue? If we want to go back in time and have the same aqusition in 2017, etc., this deal probably doesn't make the most sense. With an abundant FA market next season, I'm not sure why the panic and disappointment. What else should we have spent the money on? If he can impact our roster this season while he's here by instilling defense in our young roster, and by all accounts he rips into players that don't play defense, what's the harm?

And for all of the continued moaning and groaning, not a single person griping has provided alternative options that would be better signings, assuming those players anyone might propose would want to come here in the first place.

I provided my option that I thought would be better: just don't sign Ariza, and keep the cap space. Give the minutes to young guys like Bender, Chriss, and Warren at the 4. Keep the cap flexibility to acquire a player(s) during the season to address needs once we know what we have, and/or to help facilitate a trade and acquire an asset/pick.

You know. Continue the mediocrity.

[In2ition]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Not sure. But if all they really wanted was a 33 year old 3 & D player then why did they even trade away PJ Tucker in the first place?

He’s making half the salary that Ariza is making next season.

Because it's the upcoming 2018 - 2019 season, FA options were thin, it's a 1 year deal, we have a different coaching staff and different roster.

Should I continue? If we want to go back in time and have the same aqusition in 2017, etc., this deal probably doesn't make the most sense. With an abundant FA market next season, I'm not sure why the panic and disappointment. What else should we have spent the money on? If he can impact our roster this season while he's here by instilling defense in our young roster, and by all accounts he rips into players that don't play defense, what's the harm?

And for all of the continued moaning and groaning, not a single person griping has provided alternative options that would be better signings, assuming those players anyone might propose would want to come here in the first place.

I provided my option that I thought would be better: just don't sign Ariza, and keep the cap space. Give the minutes to young guys like Bender, Chriss, and Warren at the 4. Keep the cap flexibility to acquire a player(s) during the season to address needs once we know what we have, and/or to help facilitate a trade and acquire an asset/pick.

You know. Continue the mediocrity.

I'm of the opinion that the Suns have to start trying to win now. They got to stop trying to lose, otherwise this whole team and front office is going to be changed. Although the Ariza signing came out of left field, I'm ok with it as it provides more of what wins in the NBA, while not being a long term albatross.

[UglyTruth]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Not sure. But if all they really wanted was a 33 year old 3 & D player then why did they even trade away PJ Tucker in the first place?

He’s making half the salary that Ariza is making next season.

Because it's the upcoming 2018 - 2019 season, FA options were thin, it's a 1 year deal, we have a different coaching staff and different roster.

Should I continue? If we want to go back in time and have the same aqusition in 2017, etc., this deal probably doesn't make the most sense. With an abundant FA market next season, I'm not sure why the panic and disappointment. What else should we have spent the money on? If he can impact our roster this season while he's here by instilling defense in our young roster, and by all accounts he rips into players that don't play defense, what's the harm?

And for all of the continued moaning and groaning, not a single person griping has provided alternative options that would be better signings, assuming those players anyone might propose would want to come here in the first place.

I provided my option that I thought would be better: just don't sign Ariza, and keep the cap space. Give the minutes to young guys like Bender, Chriss, and Warren at the 4. Keep the cap flexibility to acquire a player(s) during the season to address needs once we know what we have, and/or to help facilitate a trade and acquire an asset/pick.

You know. Continue the mediocrity.

So signing Ariza has taken the Suns out of mediocrity?

[UglyTruth]

Or don't spend all of your cap space on Trevor Ariza.

Does Ariza turn the Suns down if they offer him $13 million instead of $15 million?

Not sure. But if all they really wanted was a 33 year old 3 & D player then why did they even trade away PJ Tucker in the first place?

He’s making half the salary that Ariza is making next season.

Because it's the upcoming 2018 - 2019 season, FA options were thin, it's a 1 year deal, we have a different coaching staff and different roster.

Should I continue? If we want to go back in time and have the same aqusition in 2017, etc., this deal probably doesn't make the most sense. With an abundant FA market next season, I'm not sure why the panic and disappointment. What else should we have spent the money on? If he can impact our roster this season while he's here by instilling defense in our young roster, and by all accounts he rips into players that don't play defense, what's the harm?

And for all of the continued moaning and groaning, not a single person griping has provided alternative options that would be better signings, assuming those players anyone might propose would want to come here in the first place.

So many people are harping on this team without using context. Do you realize that nearly every team in the league next season is gonna have a crazy amount of cap space?

For all the cap space that the Suns are supposedly gonna have, their not even top 10 among all teams in terms of available cap space next summer. Not to mention there are teams like Philly which are much more desirable FA destinations with much more cap space as well.

Next summer is gonna be a repeat of the 2016 summer. Aka the summer in which players like Mozgov, Deng, Marino etc all got ridiculously overpaid contracts.

Having cap space next summer with a GM on the hot seat is dangerous. The Suns can end up with the next of the Mozgov/Deng type deals.

[Split T]

I don't understand what your point is... Don't even bother with free agency because we'll screw it up anyways? Sure, it's possible. It's always possible for any team, but you sound convinced we're gauranteed to do something stupid. Philly and LA can't sign everyone. And yes, lots of teams have cap space, there are also lots of good players available. No one is expecting Kyrie Irving or Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard or Klay Thompson, but those next tier guys are possible.

[INFORMER]

Is Richaun Holmes for a top 35 protected future 2nd a good deal?

Good question. My personal preference is not to trade for Holmes. I don't really value you him enough to give up anything for him. But he has some upside, so there is a chance it may prove to be a worthwhile acquisition.

[INFORMER]

Let's see how Ariza plays out and what he provides the team before calling the acquisition a dud. .net is great at overreacting before the players ever hit the court together.

It's not an overreaction. It's just a reaction. An opinion. It is what a message board is for. A move is made, a game is played, and we react. .net is great for people being sensitive about anything negative.

[INFORMER]

he's focusing only on the perceived negatives and ignoring all positives Ariza brings. I could easily say

Elite role player with championship pedigree
Supplies defense and 3 pt shooting
Requires no plays run for him
Great mentor for other wings on roster
On 1 year deal that maintains our cap space next year.

Ariza isn't elite. He is a solid 3-point shooter and a good defender. I don't think he does either at an elite level. Citing he "requires no plays run for him" seems a little like spin. Ariza's game is limited to catching and shooting 3s. So you don't run plays for him because he is couldn't do anything with those plays.

The championship pedigree is also a bit shallow. He was on a team that won a championship. I don't think the means he has "pedigree." No one is clamoring to acquire JR Smith or Tristan Thompson for their "championship pedigree."

[INFORMER]

Parker was pretty bad last year though...I think his useful days are in the past.

I think even at this point in his career, Parker runs this team better than any point guard that is on the roster. And I think Parker actually has "championship pedigree"...he could actually really help Okobo along.

Still, I'm pouring all of our cap space into acquiring him. I don't think there was a single free agent this offseason that was worth all of our cap space.

[Superbone]

Not sure. But if all they really wanted was a 33 year old 3 & D player then why did they even trade away PJ Tucker in the first place?

He’s making half the salary that Ariza is making next season.

Because it's the upcoming 2018 - 2019 season, FA options were thin, it's a 1 year deal, we have a different coaching staff and different roster.

Should I continue? If we want to go back in time and have the same aqusition in 2017, etc., this deal probably doesn't make the most sense. With an abundant FA market next season, I'm not sure why the panic and disappointment. What else should we have spent the money on? If he can impact our roster this season while he's here by instilling defense in our young roster, and by all accounts he rips into players that don't play defense, what's the harm?

And for all of the continued moaning and groaning, not a single person griping has provided alternative options that would be better signings, assuming those players anyone might propose would want to come here in the first place.

I provided my option that I thought would be better: just don't sign Ariza, and keep the cap space. Give the minutes to young guys like Bender, Chriss, and Warren at the 4. Keep the cap flexibility to acquire a player(s) during the season to address needs once we know what we have, and/or to help facilitate a trade and acquire an asset/pick.

You know. Continue the mediocrity.

So signing Ariza has taken the Suns out of mediocrity?

Over playing Chriss and Bender? Big time.

[INFORMER]

I think it might be good for the young guys to earn their minutes. Chriss and Bender had gauranteed minutes last year, regardless how they played. Now they have to play well to stay on the court...that's not a bad thing. If they're not good enough to warrant minutes, then good riddance, we can move on.

This is kind of where I'm at, Split. As much as I have enjoyed Bender Island I may be converting it to a timeshare soon.

Yup, time to win. Booker deserves a better shot at it. Chriss and Bender got minutes they didn't deserve. I like the idea of guys toiling on the bench and working on their game in practice and getting spot minutes for now and then real minutes when they deserve them.

Guys have to play. A player doesn't get better in practice. Joe Johnson was a perfect example of this.

However, the issue with Chriss and Bender isn't that they need to "earn their minutes"; they're not good and we should be moving on from at least one of them.

And I don't think Ariza is the solution to keeping them on the bench. Ariza's skillset eats into Warren's, Jackson's, and Bridges development more than it provides a reasonable alternative to Chriss/Bender.

[Split T]

he's focusing only on the perceived negatives and ignoring all positives Ariza brings. I could easily say

Elite role player with championship pedigree
Supplies defense and 3 pt shooting
Requires no plays run for him
Great mentor for other wings on roster
On 1 year deal that maintains our cap space next year.

Ariza isn't elite. He is a solid 3-point shooter and a good defender. I don't think he does either at an elite level. Citing he "requires no plays run for him" seems a little like spin. Ariza's game is limited to catching and shooting 3s. So you don't run plays for him because he is couldn't do anything with those plays.

The championship pedigree is also a bit shallow. He was on a team that won a championship. I don't think the means he has "pedigree." No one is clamoring to acquire JR Smith or Tristan Thompson for their "championship pedigree."

I was exaggerating to make a point. I was trying to focus only on the best case scenario to counteract all the worst case scenario posts.

I think Ariza is a solid player, who makes us better. We'll see if he has a lasting impact on our youth or if he just makes us a little more competitive this year and adds a couple wins.

[INFORMER]

Would be worse than M***o E**e.

The Suns went to the playoffs with Mario Elie as a starter.

[Split T]

Parker was pretty bad last year though...I think his useful days are in the past.

I think even at this point in his career, Parker runs this team better than any point guard that is on the roster. And I think Parker actually has "championship pedigree"...he could actually really help Okobo along.

Still, I'm pouring all of our cap space into acquiring him. I don't think there was a single free agent this offseason that was worth all of our cap space.

I can see the benefit to Okobo and the championship pedigree, but I don't think he's good enough at basketball anymore.

[INFORMER]

If you're trying to forecast how many 3s Trevor Ariza is going to hit, you need to think about the players around him. Part of why Ariza got so many good looks in Houston is because he had two excellent guards on the floor running the offense in Chris Paul and James Harden.

I think it had more to do with the system than the playmakers. D'Antoni and Morey structure things to emphasize getting and taking a lot of 3s.

[INFORMER]

I provided my option that I thought would be better: just don't sign Ariza, and keep the cap space. Give the minutes to young guys like Bender, Chriss, and Warren at the 4. Keep the cap flexibility to acquire a player(s) during the season to address needs once we know what we have, and/or to help facilitate a trade and acquire an asset/pick.

You know. Continue the mediocrity.

Well let's get one thing straight: the Suns have been abysmal; mediocrity would be improvement.

Moreover, people need to stop heralding Ariza as the ultimate win-now move. The Suns should be better because:

1. They just drafted a "generational talent"
2. They got rid of their joke of a coach that so many here were giddy over, and it looks like his replacement is actually a legitimate coach
3. They won't be randomly benching their good players and starting a whole bunch of G-Leaguers

None of those reasons have anything to do with Trevor Ariza. And all of those reasons should be enough to be drastic improvement from last season. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the Suns should have stopped at those three changes; I just don't want to pretend like spending $15 million on a role player that plays the same position as 80% of our freaking roster is the only way this team was going to get serious about winning.