Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

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pickle
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by pickle »

INFORMER wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:20 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:51 am
The media made it seem like we were taken advantage of, but I think we took advantage or Morey's desperation to get rid of Anderson. Knight's knee clean-up (which the Suns knew about at the time of the trade) and McDonogh's "we see things that the public doesn't" comment reinforce that.
I really like getting Melton, but Anderson was pretty much one of the most untradable players in the league. Probably only Joakim Noah had less value. We can say he is better than Knight, but that's because Anderson wasn't a Sun last year.
Generally speaking I do agree that Anderson is no longer playable if your goal is to be relevant in the post season, but that's not where the Suns are at. I'm not sure if Knight can serve a purpose in that setting, but that's still irrelevant to the Suns as a team. I was always a Knight apologizer when he did play, but I do think that, even though he's younger, he's more or less set in his ways in terms of on court style, so he's probably never going to develop much of a plus passing vision or court awareness. He does have a smaller deal than Anderson and that sucked, but I doubt that their direct impacts on the court for the Suns would've been that much different. There may be some off court intangibles where Anderson can contribute more, and for that privilege we are paying the additional salary, and we got Melton to make up the difference.

What bugged me more was that, while Chriss had almost 0 value to the Suns by this point, I imagine multiple teams would've given up some asset to try and rehabilitate him, two years removed from the 8th overall pick and still possessing fairly impressive athleticism. Would the Nets, Hawks, Mavs, or Hornets not have put up a high second rounder for him?

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ShelC
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by ShelC »

In terms of Chriss, we kind of got that valuable 2nd rounder in Melton. By all accounts he was a legit prospect and was a standout in SL.

My concern with Anderson is that if he couldn't get time under MikeD of all people, he really might not playable.

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Split T
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

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This isn't the same Mike D, he got pulled because he couldn't defend anyone. His offense is fine, he'll space the floor for Booker/Ayton, but he still won't defend anyone. Teams don't take advantage as much in the regular season, but we could see teams isolate him onto guards/wings and play him off the floor for us as well.

He played 29 and 26 minutes a night in his two seasons in Houston. He didn't get pulled out of the rotation until the playoffs when teams game planned him off the court. I'd be ecstatic if we had to bench him in the playoffs like Houston did.

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pickle
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by pickle »

ShelC wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:45 am
In terms of Chriss, we kind of got that valuable 2nd rounder in Melton. By all accounts he was a legit prospect and was a standout in SL.

My concern with Anderson is that if he couldn't get time under MikeD of all people, he really might not playable.
I think Knight - Anderson and second rounder is a fair deal, due to the monies involved. I think Chriss should've fetched another additional asset. I know the differences are minor and generally second rounders don't amount to much, but I'm a little sick and tired of us routinely coming out on the short end of trades.

I didn't log on much during the summer, but I was really pissed off by the Mikal trade. I love him as a prospect and he was maybe the third ranked rookie for me, so I was thrilled that we got him, but I'm very angry that we gave up the unconditional first rounder for him. At least we could've put a protection like worst of the two first rounders in 2021, for instance.

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pickle
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by pickle »

Split T wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:31 am
This isn't the same Mike D, he got pulled because he couldn't defend anyone. His offense is fine, he'll space the floor for Booker/Ayton, but he still won't defend anyone. Teams don't take advantage as much in the regular season, but we could see teams isolate him onto guards/wings and play him off the floor for us as well.

He played 29 and 26 minutes a night in his two seasons in Houston. He didn't get pulled out of the rotation until the playoffs when teams game planned him off the court. I'd be ecstatic if we had to bench him in the playoffs like Houston did.
I completely agree with this take. I remember someone saying that his 3 point shooting is not that good due to percentages, but the fact is he routinely pulls up from 3-4 feet behind the 3 point line, and everyone respects him as a shooter and guards him up close. He definitely will help on the court on the offensive side of things, and I still feel like he's a net positive in the locker room, so I'm not down on him.

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In2ition
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

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It was a good trade and I felt the Suns got the better end of the deal. Anderson will be better than Knight and Chriss combined for this team. Melton becomes a bonus.
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ShelC
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by ShelC »

Not sure if it was posted here but Knight has an infection in his knee from the surgery. Really dodged a bullet there.

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pickle
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by pickle »

In2ition wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:45 am
It was a good trade and I felt the Suns got the better end of the deal. Anderson will be better than Knight and Chriss combined for this team. Melton becomes a bonus.
I generally agree with this as well, but I'm still upset with the trade because I feel like we could've gotten more. The perspective from outside the Suns camp is that Chriss definitely still has value. Even though I'm not an NBA insider, I don't think I'm over-extrapolating in saying this. Which means we could've gotten more.

Before this deal, consensus was that the Rockets had to throw in a first rounder to move Anderson. I'd say Anderson plus Melon for Knight was a fair deal. Chriss could've and should've gotten us something extra.

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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

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ShelC wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:00 am
Not sure if it was posted here but Knight has an infection in his knee from the surgery. Really dodged a bullet there.
Wow. Absolutely right that we got lucky on this one. I didn't like the trade, but right now I think it was the right move. We got two guys who can probably get some minutes, and we got rid of a broken asset in Knight.

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In2ition
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by In2ition »

pickle wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:24 am
In2ition wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:45 am
It was a good trade and I felt the Suns got the better end of the deal. Anderson will be better than Knight and Chriss combined for this team. Melton becomes a bonus.
I generally agree with this as well, but I'm still upset with the trade because I feel like we could've gotten more. The perspective from outside the Suns camp is that Chriss definitely still has value. Even though I'm not an NBA insider, I don't think I'm over-extrapolating in saying this. Which means we could've gotten more.

Before this deal, consensus was that the Rockets had to throw in a first rounder to move Anderson. I'd say Anderson plus Melon for Knight was a fair deal. Chriss could've and should've gotten us something extra.
You may be right, but I'm not sure. Knight's contract was just as unmovable, imo. Although Simmons believes that it was easily movable. If Chriss was around, I'm pretty sure that he would make a stink that he wasn't getting minutes. He's a bit of a pouty dude. I'm not going to over-analyze this trade, but Melton and Anderson fit around Booker and Ayton 3x better than Knight and Chriss. This might be one of those trades that both teams won.
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ShelC
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

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Remember when Knight signed the max deal and McD and some others were like, "Just wait. After the new CBA and contract numbers Knight's deal will be a bargain!". If only.

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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by O_Gardino »

ShelC wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:45 am
In terms of Chriss, we kind of got that valuable 2nd rounder in Melton. By all accounts he was a legit prospect and was a standout in SL.

My concern with Anderson is that if he couldn't get time under MikeD of all people, he really might not playable.
He played the 7th most minutes total for Houston last season, and he was averaging over 28mpg until he got injured late in the season. He wasn't right in the post season and got scored on every single possession.

I expect him to be playable in the regular season, but I also hope Bender surpasses him as the season goes on.
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by O_Gardino »

I think you are overvaluing both Knight and Chriss. They both stink and everyone knows it. We swapped bad contracts, and we got Melton for taking on some extra salary. It's a bonus for both teams that the bad players they brought on might be a good fir for the new team.
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

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ShelC wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:45 am
My concern with Anderson is that if he couldn't get time under MikeD of all people, he really might not playable.
Huh? He averaged almost 28 minutes a game in Houston.
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by Aztec Sunsfan »

O_Gardino wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:41 am
I think you are overvaluing both Knight and Chriss. They both stink and everyone knows it. We swapped bad contracts, and we got Melton for taking on some extra salary. It's a bonus for both teams that the bad players they brought on might be a good fir for the new team.
THIS.

I never saw that billed “athleticism” from Chriss, he actually looked really heavy most of the time, except on that highlight block he managed to get every now and then. He was carrying a lot on his hips, kind of an old, fat Shawn Kemp, except we never got slim Kemp.

He can be salvageable in the right conditions, like the Morrii, but it wasn’t going to happen here, where he already was empowered to slack and pout. Like the Morri. And those two are kind of the current ceiling for Chriss, so I’m not shedding a tear for him, neither for an hypothetical 2nd rounder, it was way better to get rid of him NOW, rather than holding onto him for a minor asset. His departure before training camp is the asset we gain out of this. We are in enough troubles figuring out a rotation as we are constructed, so having on top an entitled brat with star delusions pouting openly for his minutes or role could have been the proverbial straw.

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ShelC
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by ShelC »

I was speaking more about the playoffs. Don't recall an injury tho, that may have been why he fell out of the rotation.

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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

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ShelC wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:11 am
I was speaking more about the playoffs. Don't recall an injury tho, that may have been why he fell out of the rotation.
Playoffs?! I'd love to worry about the playoffs.
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

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Superbone wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:28 am
ShelC wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:11 am
I was speaking more about the playoffs. Don't recall an injury tho, that may have been why he fell out of the rotation.
Playoffs?! I'd love to worry about the playoffs.
We all know that McD drops his rotation to 7 players in the playoffs. And given his treatment of Kurt Thomas here in the playoffs, defense is not his biggest concern. He likes to go small and fast in the playoffs.

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Split T
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by Split T »

Mike D isn't the same coach. Houston was actually a really good defensive team. They benched Anderson because he hurt them defensively.

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pickle
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Re: Suns Trade Knight and Chriss for Anderson and Melton

Post by pickle »

Aztec Sunsfan wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:17 am
O_Gardino wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:41 am
I think you are overvaluing both Knight and Chriss. They both stink and everyone knows it. We swapped bad contracts, and we got Melton for taking on some extra salary. It's a bonus for both teams that the bad players they brought on might be a good fir for the new team.
THIS.

I never saw that billed “athleticism” from Chriss, he actually looked really heavy most of the time, except on that highlight block he managed to get every now and then. He was carrying a lot on his hips, kind of an old, fat Shawn Kemp, except we never got slim Kemp.

He can be salvageable in the right conditions, like the Morrii, but it wasn’t going to happen here, where he already was empowered to slack and pout. Like the Morri. And those two are kind of the current ceiling for Chriss, so I’m not shedding a tear for him, neither for an hypothetical 2nd rounder, it was way better to get rid of him NOW, rather than holding onto him for a minor asset. His departure before training camp is the asset we gain out of this. We are in enough troubles figuring out a rotation as we are constructed, so having on top an entitled brat with star delusions pouting openly for his minutes or role could have been the proverbial straw.
This was never a discussion about whether Chriss should've gone, but whether we could've gotten more. Knight may be a bad contract, and whatever Simmons says may or may not be true but it does represent part of the truth, which is that the 5.6 million dollar difference in their salaries makes it easier to move Knight than Anderson. If some team took on Anderson alone, then Houston needs to send at least one first rounder and maybe more. Since we gave them Knight, I feel like Melton, a second rounder, was fair compensation. Multiple other teams have taken on about 10-12 mil in contract in exchange for a lottery protected first, so taking on an addition 6 mil for a second rounder seems reasonable.

In terms of Chriss, I'm not arguing whether he's good or bad. The point is, this league is full of teams that are willing to take a chance on players that other teams have given up on, and some writers have coined the term "redraft" for this. Obviously I don't work in the front office and don't know what happened, whether the Suns tried to flip Chriss straight up or not, but it's a little hard for me to believe that if we just wanted a future second that we couldn't have moved Chriss separately from this Houston deal.

But it's all speculation so it's a moot point. What I'm saying in the end is that, this trade was frustrating for me since we could've and should've gotten more.

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