Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

[Cap]

The team absolutely did play bad defense, but Ayton was not the problem.

The guards let a man by on almost every possession, and Ayton rotated on many or most of those possessions. When he did rotate, there was absolutely no help from Anderson or Warren, and there's an easy bucket for Powell or Jordan. There were certainly times when he did not rotate and just let the play happen. He's not going to cover every man on the court himself. You've got to look at those plays in context. The 1's, 2's, and 4's blew 80% of their covers. Ayton blew 15% of his rotations, IMO.

According to the advanced stats, which I know Indy likes quite a bit, Ayton was far and away our best defender. Best Drtg, Dbpm, and the only guy on the team to get any D win shares.

I do generally like advanced stats better than raw numbers. Not sure advanced stats on a single game is meaningful, though. Our best DWS player, as you said, was Ayton at 0.1 DWS. Because no team has played more than a single game, nobody in the league has a DWS over 0.1 (about 60 guys), almost everyone at 0.0 (200 guys) and only 6 guys at -0.1. Turns out 3/6 guys below zero played against us last night.

Guess that’s gonna happen when you allow opponents to “average” 121 ppg against you.

[n4th4n]

Y’all are either trippin or didn’t watch the preseason. He looked great defensively in the preseason. I’m going to give him more than his first game ever in the league before I label him as having a low motor or not having defensive awareness. Maybe the game was just moving a little faster than normal for him because of the nerves of the first game with the crowd into it? Damn chill for a second

I think he looks great defensively in certain areas but was consistently bad at defending the pick and roll throughout the preseason. I am not concerned about his motor at all though. I agree that the game was moving a little faster than normal for him, and that he will adapt. I also don't think he has ever been coached up on defending pick and rolls before so he is going to improve a lot this year.

[n4th4n]

The team absolutely did play bad defense, but Ayton was not the problem.

The guards let a man by on almost every possession, and Ayton rotated on many or most of those possessions. When he did rotate, there was absolutely no help from Anderson or Warren, and there's an easy bucket for Powell or Jordan. There were certainly times when he did not rotate and just let the play happen. He's not going to cover every man on the court himself. You've got to look at those plays in context. The 1's, 2's, and 4's blew 80% of their covers. Ayton blew 15% of his rotations, IMO.

According to the advanced stats, which I know Indy likes quite a bit, Ayton was far and away our best defender. Best Drtg, Dbpm, and the only guy on the team to get any D win shares.

I do generally like advanced stats better than raw numbers. Not sure advanced stats on a single game is meaningful, though. Our best DWS player, as you said, was Ayton at 0.1 DWS. Because no team has played more than a single game, nobody in the league has a DWS over 0.1 (about 60 guys), almost everyone at 0.0 (200 guys) and only 6 guys at -0.1. Turns out 3/6 guys below zero played against us last night.

What site do you guys use to see view these advanced stats?

[ShelC]

The play that was in the tweet was the kind of thing I'm talking about. He didn't jump to help, he was guarding DAJ who was standing out of bounds, and then got boxed out by DAJ because he got caught watching. And that wasn't the only play I saw like that. I think Smith drove and missed the layup on a different play and Ayton was flatfooted watching while someone else grabbed the offensive rebound for the putback. I'm not attacking Ayton or calling him a bust, but stuff like that needs to be pointed out and he needs to play all the way thru the possession. Get on him about it now and don't let him get away with it so it doesn't become a habit going forward.

[JeremyG]

The play that was in the tweet was the kind of thing I'm talking about. He didn't jump to help, he was guarding DAJ who was standing out of bounds, and then got boxed out by DAJ because he got caught watching. And that wasn't the only play I saw like that. I think Smith drove and missed the layup on a different play and Ayton was flatfooted watching while someone else grabbed the offensive rebound for the putback. I'm not attacking Ayton or calling him a bust, but stuff like that needs to be pointed out and he needs to play all the way thru the possession. Get on him about it now and don't let him get away with it so it doesn't become a habit going forward.

I would sure hope nobody is calling him a bust LOL. He could continue to average 18/10 the rest of his career with mediocre defensive skills and still not be a bust.

[O_Gardino]

The team absolutely did play bad defense, but Ayton was not the problem.

The guards let a man by on almost every possession, and Ayton rotated on many or most of those possessions. When he did rotate, there was absolutely no help from Anderson or Warren, and there's an easy bucket for Powell or Jordan. There were certainly times when he did not rotate and just let the play happen. He's not going to cover every man on the court himself. You've got to look at those plays in context. The 1's, 2's, and 4's blew 80% of their covers. Ayton blew 15% of his rotations, IMO.

According to the advanced stats, which I know Indy likes quite a bit, Ayton was far and away our best defender. Best Drtg, Dbpm, and the only guy on the team to get any D win shares.

I do generally like advanced stats better than raw numbers. Not sure advanced stats on a single game is meaningful, though. Our best DWS player, as you said, was Ayton at 0.1 DWS. Because no team has played more than a single game, nobody in the league has a DWS over 0.1 (about 60 guys), almost everyone at 0.0 (200 guys) and only 6 guys at -0.1. Turns out 3/6 guys below zero played against us last night.

What site do you guys use to see view these advanced stats?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/te ... /2019.html

[UglyTruth]

Booker was fantastic and showed he's well worth the money with his ability to put the team on his back as needed. Ariza was on fire and Jackson looked good on catch and shoots even though he looked mediocre handling the ball.

Ayton was good offensively and didn't rush anything. But he still has long ways to go defensively. It's understandable since he's so young and obviously first game in the league. But this has to be taken care of as he can't be caught simply watching instead of playing.

https://twitter.com/NateDuncanNBA/status/1052767376167424000

Get that crap out of here. This happens with every player for a few plays in a game. Game "gurus" are going to microexamine Ayton's defense to try to justify humping Doncic for the last year.

What “micro examination” are you talking about? I’m now confident you missed the game because if you watched it, this would be very evident as there was more than just these handful of plays where looked completely lost.

The problem for those of us who watched him in college is that he had these same problems then too. Google Ayton vs Buffalo and you see this same stuff.

He had a great offensive game, there’s no denying that. However, we all want him to be a great two way player eventually so that’s why it’s important for him to improve defensively. He’s a rookie though and it’s his 1st game so he has time. Nobody said the world is ending because of it.

A guy like Towns is a perfect example of what I don’t want Ayton to end up like aka all offense and zero defense. That kinda stuff leads to your work ethic being questioned like Towns knows all about. Not to mention unplayable in the playoffs.

Ayton’s younger and has all the tools to improve. It’s reassuring that Kokoskov saw Ayton’s mistakes defensively as well and discussed it a bit in the post game presser.

[Superbone]

The play that was in the tweet was the kind of thing I'm talking about. He didn't jump to help, he was guarding DAJ who was standing out of bounds, and then got boxed out by DAJ because he got caught watching. And that wasn't the only play I saw like that. I think Smith drove and missed the layup on a different play and Ayton was flatfooted watching while someone else grabbed the offensive rebound for the putback. I'm not attacking Ayton or calling him a bust, but stuff like that needs to be pointed out and he needs to play all the way thru the possession. Get on him about it now and don't let him get away with it so it doesn't become a habit going forward.

I would sure hope nobody is calling him a bust LOL. He could continue to average 18/10 the rest of his career with mediocre defensive skills and still not be a bust.

This was game one, folks. Does anybody really believe that Kokoskov isn’t pointing this stuff out to Ayton during film review sessions.

It kind of cracks me up about our new toy. Some are very defensive of any criticism. The guy is still learning the game. He is not a finished product. He can get a double double in his sleep. I mean he was 4 assists away from a triple double in his first NBA game. When he starts putting it all together, watch out!

[O_Gardino]

The play that was in the tweet was the kind of thing I'm talking about. He didn't jump to help, he was guarding DAJ who was standing out of bounds, and then got boxed out by DAJ because he got caught watching. And that wasn't the only play I saw like that. I think Smith drove and missed the layup on a different play and Ayton was flatfooted watching while someone else grabbed the offensive rebound for the putback. I'm not attacking Ayton or calling him a bust, but stuff like that needs to be pointed out and he needs to play all the way thru the possession. Get on him about it now and don't let him get away with it so it doesn't become a habit going forward.

It's true that there were several plays he botched. Why point those out and not the bad defense of so many other Suns? Media people just like the narrative that Ayton is a bad defender, and they want to sell that story. There's no money in posing clips of Anderson missing assignments.

Luckily, we can count on the true fans here ate phx-suns.hate to point out every specific flaw even after a great game. For the betterment of the team and players.

[bajanguy008]

Just finished watching over the game and Igor's demeanor is like one of my favourite things.
I noticed it over and over, Suns go on a run and the place is rocking. Mavs call time out but no expression on his face just meets Canaan halfway to the bench and is explaining something
Camera caught him doing the same thing with Josh and Ayton which fits with what we've heard about how detailed he is and that's he's hands on and always teaching

As for Book, I was laughing cuz I remembered all the vids with him playing against KD this summer and KD said Book was one who was always ready to play 1 on 1 after practice. I'm sure after working on getting his shot off against KD that he probably felt like nobody was close to bothering his shot last night

[In2ition]

Just finished watching over the game and Igor's demeanor is like one of my favourite things.
I noticed it over and over, Suns go on a run and the place is rocking. Mavs call time out but no expression on his face just meets Canaan halfway to the bench and is explaining something
Camera caught him doing the same thing with Josh and Ayton which fits with what we've heard about how detailed he is and that's he's hands on and always teaching

As for Book, I was laughing cuz I remembered all the vids with him playing against KD this summer and KD said Book was one who was always ready to play 1 on 1 after practice. I'm sure after working on getting his shot off against KD that he probably felt like nobody was close to bothering his shot last night

I was really hoping that Booker would say something after asked about how well he shot in the 4th quarter. I was hoping for "I should shoot that way, especially when no one was within 10 feet of me and I was wide open the whole 4th."

[O_Gardino]

[youtube][/youtube]

[Split T]

In regards to Deandre's D, I noticed a few plays he didn't come over to help when I thought he should have. All happened later in the game. My thoughts: Maybe he was tired and not as focused as he needed to be. Or maybe he was purposefully staying home on DeAndre. Early Ayton was defending the ball handler and Jordan got a few easy dunks.

[In2ition]

There was quite a few defensive lapses from both Booker and Ayton. You could blame fatigue for some of those. Booker admitted to feeling sluggish to start the game. I'm going to take it as something that Igor can work on in the film room and there is a lot of room for growth. If Booker and Ayton played well the entire game on defense, the Suns might have won this going away before the 4th, and then we wouldn't have gotten to see the theatrics of Booker, which was highly entertaining.

[Superbone]

https://twitter.com/DeandreAyton/status/1052989491978223617

[O_Gardino]

4 players in history have had a career debut with at least 18/10/6

http://bkref.com/tiny/gN4iK

Deandre is the first since Big O in 1960.

[Indy]

The play that was in the tweet was the kind of thing I'm talking about. He didn't jump to help, he was guarding DAJ who was standing out of bounds, and then got boxed out by DAJ because he got caught watching. And that wasn't the only play I saw like that. I think Smith drove and missed the layup on a different play and Ayton was flatfooted watching while someone else grabbed the offensive rebound for the putback. I'm not attacking Ayton or calling him a bust, but stuff like that needs to be pointed out and he needs to play all the way thru the possession. Get on him about it now and don't let him get away with it so it doesn't become a habit going forward.

It's true that there were several plays he botched. Why point those out and not the bad defense of so many other Suns? Media people just like the narrative that Ayton is a bad defender, and they want to sell that story. There's no money in posing clips of Anderson missing assignments.

Luckily, we can count on the true fans here ate phx-suns.hate to point out every specific flaw even after a great game. For the betterment of the team and players.

Because that was really the ONLY question about Ayton coming out of college, and being the #1 pick in the draft. It isn't about "media people" selling a story. It was THE question people wanted to see answered. Nobody cares about how bad Ryan Anderson is defensively. Everyone accepts it. And honestly, the same for Booker. The news was about the newest #1 pick, and reporting on a game shouldn't be a love fest. It should be about what went well and what didn't.

[Hermen]

4 players in history have had a career debut with at least 18/10/6

http://bkref.com/tiny/gN4iK

Deandre is the first since Big O in 1960.

Only 5 centers (by bkref classification) in history played 36 or more minutes in their debut and didn't get more than 1 block.

Don't get me wrong, Ayton had a very good first game and I'm not trying to pick on you, I know pointing out such facts is fairly common. I just don't see the point in it. It seems too easy to filter out games/players/whatever using combinations of stats.

[Indy]

4 players in history have had a career debut with at least 18/10/6

http://bkref.com/tiny/gN4iK

Deandre is the first since Big O in 1960.

Only 5 centers (by bkref classification) in history played 36 or more minutes in their debut and didn't get more than 1 block.

Don't get me wrong, Ayton had a very good first game and I'm not trying to pick on you, I know pointing out such facts is fairly common. I just don't see the point in it. It seems too easy to filter out games/players/whatever using combinations of stats.

He had 2 blocks, and the 3rd was questionable. Not sure why he was only credited with 1.

But your point is very valid.

[Cap]

4 players in history have had a career debut with at least 18/10/6

http://bkref.com/tiny/gN4iK

Deandre is the first since Big O in 1960.

Only 5 centers (by bkref classification) in history played 36 or more minutes in their debut and didn't get more than 1 block.

Don't get me wrong, Ayton had a very good first game and I'm not trying to pick on you, I know pointing out such facts is fairly common. I just don't see the point in it. It seems too easy to filter out games/players/whatever using combinations of stats.

He had 2 blocks, and the 3rd was questionable. Not sure why he was only credited with 1.

But your point is very valid.

Devin Booker in elite company: http://bkref.com/tiny/wvHGr