Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

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O_Gardino
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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by O_Gardino »

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:03 am
...
ShelC wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:44 am
Regarding Jackson, I think we need to slow down and really use this season as a barometer. He's playing a role now that's best suited for him, as a complementary player and not a #1 or even #2 guy. Let him learn to pick his spots playing off Booker and Ayton rather than forcing offense or trying to play PG and set everyone else up. His jumper needs work and I think he shot 2, maybe 3 airballs in the 1st half on shots that shouldn't have been airballs. Not sure what he did differently in the 2nd half but he finished with 18pts and three 3s, so we know he can find the basket.
I 100% agree. JJ is really a smaller version of Marion, to put it in Suns terms. He can do a little bit of everything and sometimes you'll look at the box score and wonder how the hell he did that. But, just like Marion, you can't put him in a role that asks him to regularly create for himself or his teammates. I think he's a little better than Marion at doing that, but it still needs to come in a way that's fluid with the offensive motion, not a 'give it to him on the wing and let him go' kind a way.
...
JJ is 100% a guy who can get the ball on the wing and create. He's inexperienced and needs to learn to play with pace. Having good teammates will help, but he needs to think of himself as one of the big 3 on this team and grow into someone who can break down a defense and create scoring. I agree that he will do better with a smaller role than he had last season, but we shouldn't be grooming him to just be an off-the-ball guy. He just need to recognize when to attack.
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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by bajanguy008 »

https://twitter.com/FOXSPORTSAZ/status/1052789375900180480

SUNS Fan from the Land of Sun, Sea and Sand ;)

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by bajanguy008 »

Such an awesome stat this is - 35 Assists on 44 FGs

https://twitter.com/esidery/status/1052805243619037184

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by Xylus »

Anyone know the last time the Suns racked up 35 assists in a game?

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by O_Gardino »

Xylus wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:08 am
Anyone know the last time the Suns racked up 35 assists in a game?
It was a crushing victory against Dallas to close the regular season last year. Suns legend Alec Peters exploded for 36 points on 8 bombs from deep, unstoppable backcourt duo Harrison and Ulis combined for 18 assists, and stalwart big man Dragan "The Dragon Bender" Bender dominated the paint with 13 rebounds and a game high 2 blocks. That's double the blocks of the entire Mavs team, but you know nobody can block Peters when he gets hot from outside. Fan favorite SF Alex Len had a typical all around game with 18/5/6, and highlight dunker Danuel House was unstoppable a the rim, shooting 7-12 with 8 rebounds. Future Orlando Magic GM Jared Dudley stuffed the stat sheet registering values in over 11 statistical categories.

That game's Setting Sun was Davon Reed, who somehow managed to finish with 2 points, 2 fouls, and a +/- of -9 in a game the Suns won by 27. That's right, the team was +36 without him. That would be the last regular season game he played as a Sun.


The last time we had 35 in a game that mattered was 2011. Steve Nash and Grant Hill combined for 24 assists feeding Channing Frye and Jared Dudley.

I find it most impressive that we were able to get back to 35 without Dudley, who is a real catalyst for ball movement.
Last edited by O_Gardino on Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Split T
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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by Split T »

So back to back games with 35 assists?

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by Xylus »

O_Gardino wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:27 am
Xylus wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:08 am
Anyone know the last time the Suns racked up 35 assists in a game?
It was a crushing victory against Dallas to close the regular season last year. Suns legend Alec Peters exploded for 36 points on 8 bombs from deep, unstoppable backcourt duo Harrison and Ulis combined for 18 assists, and stalwart big man Dragan "The Dragon Bender" Bender dominated the paint with 13 rebounds and a game high 2 blocks. That's double the blocks of the entire Mavs team, but you know nobody can block Peters when he gets hot from outside. Fan favorite SF Alex Len had a typical all around game with 18/5/6, and highlight dunker Danuel House was unstoppable a the rim, shooting 7-12 with 8 rebounds. Future Orlando Magic GM Jared Dudley stuffed the stat sheet registering values in over 11 statistical categories.

That game's Setting Sun was Davon Reed, who somehow managed to finish with 2 points, 2 fouls, and a +/- of -9 in a game the Suns won by 27. That's right, the team was +36 without him. That would be the last regular season game he played as a Sun.


The last tie we had 35 in a game that mattered was 2011. Steve Nash and Grant Hill combined for 24 assists feeding Channing Frye and Jared Dudley.

I find it most impressive that we were able to get back to 35 without Dudley, who is a real catalyst for ball movement.
This is just wonderful

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by Cap »

O_Gardino wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:27 am
Xylus wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:08 am
Anyone know the last time the Suns racked up 35 assists in a game?
It was a crushing victory against Dallas to close the regular season last year.
I think we did it again against Dallas in summer league, with largely the same rosters.

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by O_Gardino »

Cap wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:34 am
O_Gardino wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:27 am
Xylus wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:08 am
Anyone know the last time the Suns racked up 35 assists in a game?
It was a crushing victory against Dallas to close the regular season last year.
I think we did it again against Dallas in summer league, with largely the same rosters.
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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by JCSunsfan »

UglyTruth wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:20 am
Booker was fantastic and showed he's well worth the money with his ability to put the team on his back as needed. Ariza was on fire and Jackson looked good on catch and shoots even though he looked mediocre handling the ball.

Ayton was good offensively and didn't rush anything. But he still has long ways to go defensively. It's understandable since he's so young and obviously first game in the league. But this has to be taken care of as he can't be caught simply watching instead of playing.

https://twitter.com/NateDuncanNBA/status/1052767376167424000

Get that crap out of here. This happens with every player for a few plays in a game. Game "gurus" are going to microexamine Ayton's defense to try to justify humping Doncic for the last year.

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by O_Gardino »

JCSunsfan wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:49 am
UglyTruth wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:20 am
Booker was fantastic and showed he's well worth the money with his ability to put the team on his back as needed. Ariza was on fire and Jackson looked good on catch and shoots even though he looked mediocre handling the ball.

Ayton was good offensively and didn't rush anything. But he still has long ways to go defensively. It's understandable since he's so young and obviously first game in the league. But this has to be taken care of as he can't be caught simply watching instead of playing.

https://twitter.com/NateDuncanNBA/status/1052767376167424000

Get that crap out of here. This happens with every player for a few plays in a game. Game "gurus" are going to microexamine Ayton's defense to try to justify humping Doncic for the last year.
Thank you.

Ayton has great defensive recognition for a rookie his age and size and for the amount of switching etc we ask him to do. He can and will get better, but it's just cheap to pick specific moments like this.
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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by Mori Chu »

I didn't think Ayton played poorly on defense. I saw a few plays where he missed a guy or was in the wrong place, but I didn't think he seemed like a bad defender overall.

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by n4th4n »

O_Gardino wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:20 am
JCSunsfan wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:49 am
UglyTruth wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:20 am
Booker was fantastic and showed he's well worth the money with his ability to put the team on his back as needed. Ariza was on fire and Jackson looked good on catch and shoots even though he looked mediocre handling the ball.

Ayton was good offensively and didn't rush anything. But he still has long ways to go defensively. It's understandable since he's so young and obviously first game in the league. But this has to be taken care of as he can't be caught simply watching instead of playing.

https://twitter.com/NateDuncanNBA/status/1052767376167424000

Get that crap out of here. This happens with every player for a few plays in a game. Game "gurus" are going to microexamine Ayton's defense to try to justify humping Doncic for the last year.
Thank you.

Ayton has great defensive recognition for a rookie his age and size and for the amount of switching etc we ask him to do. He can and will get better, but it's just cheap to pick specific moments like this.
I mean, really guys? I loved Ayton's performance, but this was really really bad. And there were 4-5 plays in the game just like this. There is no microexamineing going on here. Ayton's defensive awareness when it comes to rotations is downright terrible. I don't think he has ever been coached up defensively, or even held accountable on that side of the court, so he is going to get better. But we should be realistic on where he is right now. He's bad. But he will get better.

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by ShelC »

Yea I was a little disappointed in his defense but moreso his effort and motor. He just seemed very nonchalant out there but I also think the guard penetration made things difficult on him as he would have to help only to have his man get points off the dump off pass. Still, I thought his motor left a lot to be desired. This isn't "hate" just a critique and something I hope he gets better at. It's the NBA where the game is faster, so he'll have to adjust to that for sure.

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by specialsauce »

Y’all are either trippin or didn’t watch the preseason. He looked great defensively in the preseason. I’m going to give him more than his first game ever in the league before I label him as having a low motor or not having defensive awareness. Maybe the game was just moving a little faster than normal for him because of the nerves of the first game with the crowd into it? Damn chill for a second

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by Indy »

Have to say "like" to UT, nathan and shel. We were awful defensively, with our two best players, Ayton and Booker, being bad and awful, respectively. Good thing they were dominant on the other side of the ball, and we were playing a likely bottom 5 team in the league.

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by Indy »

specialsauce wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:34 am
Y’all are either trippin or didn’t watch the preseason. He looked great defensively in the preseason. I’m going to give him more than his first game ever in the league before I label him as having a low motor or not having defensive awareness. Maybe the game was just moving a little faster than normal for him because of the nerves of the first game with the crowd into it? Damn chill for a second
Nobody is saying the world is ending. Just that we still are really bad on defense, and our premiere players might be some of the worst offenders.

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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by O_Gardino »

The team absolutely did play bad defense, but Ayton was not the problem.

The guards let a man by on almost every possession, and Ayton rotated on many or most of those possessions. When he did rotate, there was absolutely no help from Anderson or Warren, and there's an easy bucket for Powell or Jordan. There were certainly times when he did not rotate and just let the play happen. He's not going to cover every man on the court himself. You've got to look at those plays in context. The 1's, 2's, and 4's blew 80% of their covers. Ayton blew 15% of his rotations, IMO.

According to the advanced stats, which I know Indy likes quite a bit, Ayton was far and away our best defender. Best Drtg, Dbpm, and the only guy on the team to get any D win shares.
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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by Cap »

O_Gardino wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:25 pm
The team absolutely did play bad defense, but Ayton was not the problem.

The guards let a man by on almost every possession, and Ayton rotated on many or most of those possessions. When he did rotate, there was absolutely no help from Anderson or Warren, and there's an easy bucket for Powell or Jordan. There were certainly times when he did not rotate and just let the play happen. He's not going to cover every man on the court himself. You've got to look at those plays in context. The 1's, 2's, and 4's blew 80% of their covers. Ayton blew 15% of his rotations, IMO.

According to the advanced stats, which I know Indy likes quite a bit, Ayton was far and away our best defender. Best Drtg, Dbpm, and the only guy on the team to get any D win shares.
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Re: Game Day (Home Opener): Mavericks (0-0) @ Suns (0-0), Wed 10/17/18

Post by Indy »

O_Gardino wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:25 pm
The team absolutely did play bad defense, but Ayton was not the problem.

The guards let a man by on almost every possession, and Ayton rotated on many or most of those possessions. When he did rotate, there was absolutely no help from Anderson or Warren, and there's an easy bucket for Powell or Jordan. There were certainly times when he did not rotate and just let the play happen. He's not going to cover every man on the court himself. You've got to look at those plays in context. The 1's, 2's, and 4's blew 80% of their covers. Ayton blew 15% of his rotations, IMO.

According to the advanced stats, which I know Indy likes quite a bit, Ayton was far and away our best defender. Best Drtg, Dbpm, and the only guy on the team to get any D win shares.
I do generally like advanced stats better than raw numbers. Not sure advanced stats on a single game is meaningful, though. Our best DWS player, as you said, was Ayton at 0.1 DWS. Because no team has played more than a single game, nobody in the league has a DWS over 0.1 (about 60 guys), almost everyone at 0.0 (200 guys) and only 6 guys at -0.1. Turns out 3/6 guys below zero played against us last night.

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