Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

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JCSunsfan
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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by JCSunsfan »

In2ition wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:52 pm
Yay, Suns with the win, Booker hits back to back big shots, while still only about 80%. Ayton played some good defense tonight. Bridges is going to start soon enough. At least the Suns have 3 core players right now. I hope TJ feels better soon. The bench got outplayed badly.
I think the best solution eventually is Mikal starting. TJ as the sixth man, and Ariza as the pf.

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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by JCSunsfan »

Indy wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:38 am
Great to see a win! It has been nearly 3 weeks!

1) Bridges is so fun to watch, on both ends of the floor.
2) Nobody on our team played more minutes in the 1st quarter than Ryan Anderson--why?
3) WTF are we doing with Ayton? Get him the damn ball and make sure it isn't 23 feet from the hoop
4) Ariza is not a bad player when he can hit shots...
5) JJ was a net -32 +/-? Holy s***.
6) 76% of our made baskets were assisted. That is great.
7) How do you win a game with 24 TOs? I guess you hope the two stars on the other team go 5/29.
8) We should never have a game where 7 guys have a higher usage rate than Ayton (especially Holmes or JJ)

I know this really screws our bench unit, but we should be running a starting lineup of:

Canaan
Booker
Bridges
TJ
Ayton

Bench has JJ, Ariza, Crawford (depending on who brings it) as your 2/3 guys , Okobo at the 1, and Holmes at 5.
Bridges is fun to watch especially for people who are basketball knowledgeable. He does so many little things that most people miss.

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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by virtual9mm »

I watched the first and fourth quarters of the game, and I saw an awful lot to like.

(1) The game was close because of the turnovers. What happens when the Suns get to know each other better, and get more familiar with the offense? I saw some signs of this late in the game already.

(2) Speaking of which, I was concerned that Igor was starting to lose the team last week. I'm not so worried now, because I am seeing Igor impose his will upon the team and making them buy into his offense. Indeed, I am starting to wonder if Igor will end up being the Suns' Popovich. Call me crazy but I think he's weathered the storm.

(3) I don't think that Ayton was lost at all. Someone figured out that he's not ready to overpower Marc Gasol quite yet. Why not use his mobility in a Kevin Garnett-type role? He couldn't get it going offensively, but he certainly played an important role controlling the middle of the floor on defense. It was no accident that the likes of Conley shot so poorly. When you've got a big, mobile dude with long arms loitering around the free throw line, you're going to hurry everything even if you get past that octopus.

(4) Bridges really does look like Majerle to me. Same kind of player, perhaps the third leg of a Big 3?

(5) Okobo looks promising. Not as lost as a young Dragic but needs to get stronger to make sure he can finish around the rim. He's not going to be a starter this year but next year? Perhaps.

(6) I very much prefer a active, young, big man being a bull in a china shop rather than an over-the-hill player that can't play anymore. Holmes did a good job as backup C and he's earning that role.

(7) Booker is Booker.

Call me crazy, but I suspect that the Suns are going to look better and better by small increments over the season, and I wonder if they'll run off a fairly impressive winning streak after picking up another win or two during the rough early going. I'm not sure if they'll make the playoffs, but I think it's possible.

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In2ition
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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by In2ition »

JCSunsfan wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:15 am
In2ition wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:52 pm
Yay, Suns with the win, Booker hits back to back big shots, while still only about 80%. Ayton played some good defense tonight. Bridges is going to start soon enough. At least the Suns have 3 core players right now. I hope TJ feels better soon. The bench got outplayed badly.
I think the best solution eventually is Mikal starting. TJ as the sixth man, and Ariza as the pf.
Agreed.
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Superbone
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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by Superbone »

ShelC wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:03 am
4 shots for Ayton is totally unacceptable. That falls on the coach. I don't care about Gasol or the gameplan. Right now, we drafted a generational big just to have him setting screens 25 ft from the basket. 4 shots. We're running offense for our perimeter players who just happen to be Canaan, Ariza, Anderson, Okobo, Jackson. We're not the Warriors or the Celtics. No reason to be running essentially a 4-round offense with those guys on the perimeter. Run that with Holmes in the game. Otherwise, Ayton needs to be fed in the post every time down, play inside-out and let him pass out to shooters who are best in catch and shoot situations rather than forcing them to create. 4 shots.
Sure, some of that is on the coach but not all of it. Ayton needs to learn to be a little more selfish and aggressive offensively. He passes out of the post too much. He needs to be looking to score more often like the example I gave above where he should have powered through the dunk rather than passing back out. He's such a good shooter that he needs to be looking at the rim more too for mid-range jumpers. He finally looked at one late last night and nailed it.
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Suns_Dave
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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by Suns_Dave »

Keep in mind that a couple early season losses can mean the difference between 2nd or 3rd seed and non-playoff purgatory, especially in the wild west.

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ShelC
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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by ShelC »

I hear ya, but I don't know how he can be more aggressive when his job is to run around setting screens at the top of the key and handing the ball off 95% of the time. Those are the sets. He got 4 shots last night and it wasn't like he was posting up 30 times and was passing to the perimeter. One time he ran to the block, sealed Gasol and Ariza knew enough to whip a pass down to him. Of course, no one called out the help coming from the weakside and he was stripped (I think that was the same play). But that was the first time I've seen him get thrown the ball in the post off a break.

PnRs aren't working because we don't have a great PnR guard and we're not posting him up. That has to change.

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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by Xylus »

Watching the highlights, it's clear how much Booker will benefit from Ayton's presence. He got a lot of open looks from mid-range as a result of Ayton's screens. Hopefully Mikal will continue to feast on the attention those two draw. How do you block Mikal's shot when his release point is so high? Durant-esque.

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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by Cap »

O_Gardino wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:35 am
Anderson and Ariza continue to be the best 2 rebounders on the team outside the center position.
JJ, meanwhile... ugh.

Code: Select all

                                                                                                                                         
Rk                    Age G  MP  PER  TS% 3PAr   FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS DWS   WS   WS/48  OBPM DBPM   BPM VORP
1      Tyson Chandler  36 7  89 11.8 .653 .000 1.500  9.0 42.3 25.4  9.7  1.1  0.9 26.0  13.2  0.1 0.1  0.2    .082  -4.1  1.0  -3.2  0.0
2      Richaun Holmes  25 8  50 11.7 .539 .000  .625 18.2 28.3 23.2 11.4  1.0  3.4 32.9  13.3  0.0 0.0  0.0    .041  -3.7  2.1  -1.5  0.0
3       Dragan Bender  21 4  14  5.2 .500 .250  .000 16.3 25.2 20.7  0.0  0.0  0.0 33.3  18.7  0.0 0.0  0.0  -0.125  -9.7 -7.2 -16.8 -0.1
4       Deandre Ayton  20 9 289 21.9 .651 .000  .240  9.1 29.7 19.2 19.0  1.2  2.3 12.6  19.1  0.8 0.2  1.0    .164   2.2  2.0   4.2  0.5
5       Ryan Anderson  30 9 200  7.0 .456 .528  .264  6.8 13.5 10.1  9.4  0.5  0.0 11.9  14.7 -0.1 0.0  0.0  -0.012  -2.5 -1.9  -4.4 -0.1
6        Trevor Ariza  33 9 301  9.9 .509 .598  .218  2.3 16.8  9.4 16.6  1.3  0.3 15.1  16.3  0.0 0.1  0.1    .013  -1.3 -0.6  -1.9  0.0
7         T.J. Warren  25 8 197 17.4 .590 .274  .200  4.6 12.5  8.5 11.2  1.0  2.1 10.4  25.6  0.2 0.1  0.3    .069   0.6 -2.2  -1.6  0.0
8       Isaiah Canaan  27 8 216  9.3 .589 .508  .164  1.6 11.4  6.4 16.4  0.9  0.0 18.7  16.3  0.1 0.0  0.1    .017  -1.0 -2.1  -3.2 -0.1
9        Troy Daniels  27 4  37  9.3 .453 .733  .067  3.1  9.5  6.3 16.7  5.2  0.0 16.3  21.8 -0.1 0.0  0.0  -0.029  -1.5 -0.1  -1.6  0.0
10       Devin Booker  22 6 208 18.6 .605 .426  .407  1.1 11.3  6.1 35.8  0.9  0.4 18.5  32.8  0.2 0.0  0.3    .058   3.7 -3.5   0.2  0.1
11         Elie Okobo  21 7 118  8.3 .517 .442  .233  1.9 10.0  5.9 22.6  0.4  0.0 16.0  20.9  0.0 0.0  0.0  -0.008  -2.1 -3.9  -6.0 -0.1
12      Mikal Bridges  22 9 155 14.2 .639 .522  .239  1.5  9.9  5.6  8.1  3.4  0.5 12.1  16.3  0.2 0.1  0.3    .092   0.9 -0.3   0.5  0.1
13       Josh Jackson  21 9 186  2.1 .462 .314  .186  0.0 10.8  5.3 16.3  1.3  2.3 27.7  24.6 -0.8 0.1 -0.7  -0.182  -8.6 -1.2  -9.8 -0.4
14   DeAnthony Melton  20 2  22 -0.2 .292 .500  .000  0.0 10.7  5.3  7.0  6.6  3.8 14.3  27.8 -0.2 0.0 -0.1  -0.248 -10.7  2.1  -8.6  0.0
15     Jamal Crawford  38 8  76 10.4 .547 .609  .435  0.0  6.2  3.0 17.5  1.3  0.0 12.7  18.0  0.1 0.0  0.1    .040  -1.3 -4.2  -5.4 -0.1
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/5/2018.

Yup, that’s a 0.0 ORB%. Nine games into the season, he has yet to grab a single offensive rebound, and averaging less than 2 on the other end of the floor.

Here’s players 6-8 and above who have played at least 60 minutes this season, sorted by TRB%. Of 144 players who qualify, JJ is fourth-worst. http://bkref.com/tiny/9UNse

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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by djy2j »

Alot more hustle and desire tonight. Glad to finally get a win.

The good:
-Bridges is legit. You have to find minutes for this kid. He was coached well in college and knows how to win. It shows.
-Holmes brings the energy we needed from Chandler off the bench. He may not be as skilled but he hustles and that's what you have to have off the bench.
- More energy tonight overall.

The bad:

-24 turnovers. Sheesh. We make some terrible passes. Alot coming from driving and then trying to pass it while in the air. You learn not to do that shit in H.S. Not sure these guys do it so much. There's alot of poor fundamentals on this roster.

- I watched alot of the movement on offense. We have this play where 3 guys end up at the top of the key about 3 feet apart from each other and it's a disaster. It happened multiple times in the first half.

-Ryan Anderson. Good God. The only thing this guy is good at is shooting and when he's not hitting he's unplayable. He's not hitting.

-Canaan at PG. This team needs a PG that can run an offense so badly right now. IC isn't that guy. He's got a scoring mentality and we need someone with a playmaking mentality else this team can't really evolve.

I feel like point Book is ok for close games in the 4th but not a whole game.
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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by Superbone »

Xylus wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:35 am
Watching the highlights, it's clear how much Booker will benefit from Ayton's presence. He got a lot of open looks from mid-range as a result of Ayton's screens. Hopefully Mikal will continue to feast on the attention those two draw. How do you block Mikal's shot when his release point is so high? Durant-esque.
And Booker is still figuring out how to best play off of Ayton. Right now he forces too many passes to Ayton. He will learn when to pass and when to shoot in time. It's a subtle nuance that you have to read in real-time. I have no doubt that he'll get there.
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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by gosuns »

Booker is an incredible closer. Unreal. The Grizzlies must be kicking themselves for not finishing us off.

Kevin Ray said Coach Igor simplified the offense allready. That might be contaproductive. If the Offense is simple it gets predictable. This causes even more turnovers. How many times the Grizzlies where allready waiting for our players anticipating where the Ball would go. We are supposedly leading the league in passes, that is nice.

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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by gosuns »

Superbone wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:10 am
Xylus wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:47 pm
Those are some true fans at the arena tonight
Yeah, got to give it up for them. As sparse as it looked, they made a lot of noise. I watched the fourth quarter a second time. This time from the Grizzlies broadcast.
Great Idea. I must try that too. :lol:

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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by gosuns »

Democritus wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:40 pm
Democritus wrote:
Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:57 pm
I will send positive energy to the universe today. Let see how it pans out.
Thank you, universe.
Best Regards,
Democritus, your most loyal servant.
You’re a little out there dude. But if it gets us wins carry on please. :lol:

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Superbone
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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by Superbone »

gosuns wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:50 pm
Superbone wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:10 am
Xylus wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:47 pm
Those are some true fans at the arena tonight
Yeah, got to give it up for them. As sparse as it looked, they made a lot of noise. I watched the fourth quarter a second time. This time from the Grizzlies broadcast.
Great Idea. I must try that too. :lol:
I usually get both broadcasts on League Pass. I always record both. Then if something interesting happens or it's just a great game, I can hear it from the other perspective.
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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by O_Gardino »

In2ition wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:26 am
JCSunsfan wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:15 am
In2ition wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:52 pm
Yay, Suns with the win, Booker hits back to back big shots, while still only about 80%. Ayton played some good defense tonight. Bridges is going to start soon enough. At least the Suns have 3 core players right now. I hope TJ feels better soon. The bench got outplayed badly.
I think the best solution eventually is Mikal starting. TJ as the sixth man, and Ariza as the pf.
Agreed.
I love Mikal, but just be prepared. He's a rook and will have some off nights.
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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by O_Gardino »

virtual9mm wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:19 am
I watched the first and fourth quarters of the game, and I saw an awful lot to like.

(1) The game was close because of the turnovers. What happens when the Suns get to know each other better, and get more familiar with the offense? I saw some signs of this late in the game already.

(2) Speaking of which, I was concerned that Igor was starting to lose the team last week. I'm not so worried now, because I am seeing Igor impose his will upon the team and making them buy into his offense. Indeed, I am starting to wonder if Igor will end up being the Suns' Popovich. Call me crazy but I think he's weathered the storm.

(3) I don't think that Ayton was lost at all. Someone figured out that he's not ready to overpower Marc Gasol quite yet. Why not use his mobility in a Kevin Garnett-type role? He couldn't get it going offensively, but he certainly played an important role controlling the middle of the floor on defense. It was no accident that the likes of Conley shot so poorly. When you've got a big, mobile dude with long arms loitering around the free throw line, you're going to hurry everything even if you get past that octopus.

(4) Bridges really does look like Majerle to me. Same kind of player, perhaps the third leg of a Big 3?

(5) Okobo looks promising. Not as lost as a young Dragic but needs to get stronger to make sure he can finish around the rim. He's not going to be a starter this year but next year? Perhaps.

(6) I very much prefer a active, young, big man being a bull in a china shop rather than an over-the-hill player that can't play anymore. Holmes did a good job as backup C and he's earning that role.

(7) Booker is Booker.

Call me crazy, but I suspect that the Suns are going to look better and better by small increments over the season, and I wonder if they'll run off a fairly impressive winning streak after picking up another win or two during the rough early going. I'm not sure if they'll make the playoffs, but I think it's possible.
RE Igor, I don't know about the Pop comp, but I am less worried about him losing the team than I was after game #4. The effort and focus seems to get better with each game, instead of deteriorating.
The league needs heroes, villains... and clowns. -- Aztec Sunsfan

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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by O_Gardino »

Cap wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:49 am
O_Gardino wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:35 am
Anderson and Ariza continue to be the best 2 rebounders on the team outside the center position.
JJ, meanwhile... ugh.

Code: Select all

                                                                                                                                         
Rk                    Age G  MP  PER  TS% 3PAr   FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS DWS   WS   WS/48  OBPM DBPM   BPM VORP
1      Tyson Chandler  36 7  89 11.8 .653 .000 1.500  9.0 42.3 25.4  9.7  1.1  0.9 26.0  13.2  0.1 0.1  0.2    .082  -4.1  1.0  -3.2  0.0
2      Richaun Holmes  25 8  50 11.7 .539 .000  .625 18.2 28.3 23.2 11.4  1.0  3.4 32.9  13.3  0.0 0.0  0.0    .041  -3.7  2.1  -1.5  0.0
3       Dragan Bender  21 4  14  5.2 .500 .250  .000 16.3 25.2 20.7  0.0  0.0  0.0 33.3  18.7  0.0 0.0  0.0  -0.125  -9.7 -7.2 -16.8 -0.1
4       Deandre Ayton  20 9 289 21.9 .651 .000  .240  9.1 29.7 19.2 19.0  1.2  2.3 12.6  19.1  0.8 0.2  1.0    .164   2.2  2.0   4.2  0.5
5       Ryan Anderson  30 9 200  7.0 .456 .528  .264  6.8 13.5 10.1  9.4  0.5  0.0 11.9  14.7 -0.1 0.0  0.0  -0.012  -2.5 -1.9  -4.4 -0.1
6        Trevor Ariza  33 9 301  9.9 .509 .598  .218  2.3 16.8  9.4 16.6  1.3  0.3 15.1  16.3  0.0 0.1  0.1    .013  -1.3 -0.6  -1.9  0.0
7         T.J. Warren  25 8 197 17.4 .590 .274  .200  4.6 12.5  8.5 11.2  1.0  2.1 10.4  25.6  0.2 0.1  0.3    .069   0.6 -2.2  -1.6  0.0
8       Isaiah Canaan  27 8 216  9.3 .589 .508  .164  1.6 11.4  6.4 16.4  0.9  0.0 18.7  16.3  0.1 0.0  0.1    .017  -1.0 -2.1  -3.2 -0.1
9        Troy Daniels  27 4  37  9.3 .453 .733  .067  3.1  9.5  6.3 16.7  5.2  0.0 16.3  21.8 -0.1 0.0  0.0  -0.029  -1.5 -0.1  -1.6  0.0
10       Devin Booker  22 6 208 18.6 .605 .426  .407  1.1 11.3  6.1 35.8  0.9  0.4 18.5  32.8  0.2 0.0  0.3    .058   3.7 -3.5   0.2  0.1
11         Elie Okobo  21 7 118  8.3 .517 .442  .233  1.9 10.0  5.9 22.6  0.4  0.0 16.0  20.9  0.0 0.0  0.0  -0.008  -2.1 -3.9  -6.0 -0.1
12      Mikal Bridges  22 9 155 14.2 .639 .522  .239  1.5  9.9  5.6  8.1  3.4  0.5 12.1  16.3  0.2 0.1  0.3    .092   0.9 -0.3   0.5  0.1
13       Josh Jackson  21 9 186  2.1 .462 .314  .186  0.0 10.8  5.3 16.3  1.3  2.3 27.7  24.6 -0.8 0.1 -0.7  -0.182  -8.6 -1.2  -9.8 -0.4
14   DeAnthony Melton  20 2  22 -0.2 .292 .500  .000  0.0 10.7  5.3  7.0  6.6  3.8 14.3  27.8 -0.2 0.0 -0.1  -0.248 -10.7  2.1  -8.6  0.0
15     Jamal Crawford  38 8  76 10.4 .547 .609  .435  0.0  6.2  3.0 17.5  1.3  0.0 12.7  18.0  0.1 0.0  0.1    .040  -1.3 -4.2  -5.4 -0.1
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/5/2018.

Yup, that’s a 0.0 ORB%. Nine games into the season, he has yet to grab a single offensive rebound, and averaging less than 2 on the other end of the floor.

Here’s players 6-8 and above who have played at least 60 minutes this season, sorted by TRB%. Of 144 players who qualify, JJ is fourth-worst. http://bkref.com/tiny/9UNse
JJ and Warren have both been inexcusably bad.
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Nodack
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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by Nodack »

Superbone wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:53 pm
gosuns wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:50 pm
Superbone wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:10 am
Xylus wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:47 pm
Those are some true fans at the arena tonight
Yeah, got to give it up for them. As sparse as it looked, they made a lot of noise. I watched the fourth quarter a second time. This time from the Grizzlies broadcast.
Great Idea. I must try that too. :lol:
I usually get both broadcasts on League Pass. I always record both. Then if something interesting happens or it's just a great game, I can hear it from the other perspective.
I really appreciate Eddie Johnson. He has a players perspective and compliments good play from either team instead of being a homer.

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Re: Game Day: Grizzlies (5-2) @ Suns (1-7), Sun 11/4/18

Post by azsportsfan »

Nodack wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:30 pm
Superbone wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:53 pm
gosuns wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:50 pm
Superbone wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:10 am
Xylus wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:47 pm
Those are some true fans at the arena tonight
Yeah, got to give it up for them. As sparse as it looked, they made a lot of noise. I watched the fourth quarter a second time. This time from the Grizzlies broadcast.
Great Idea. I must try that too. :lol:
I usually get both broadcasts on League Pass. I always record both. Then if something interesting happens or it's just a great game, I can hear it from the other perspective.
I really appreciate Eddie Johnson. He has a players perspective and compliments good play from either team instead of being a homer.
So true. I watch the Jazz games because I live in the market and I enjoy watching basketball. I really dislike the Jazz though. And the TV/radio guys take the cake for homerism. The Jazz never do anything wrong, the refs missed the call, a Mitchell layup is the greatest shot ever seen by man, etc. Now they are struggling because they were the clutchiest, grabbiest, elbowiest, moving-screeniest team in the league and little of that is allowed this season with the new emphasis on movement. But no fan thinks this because they were told their team never did anything wrong. Every other team/fan knew the Jazz were "dirty".

Anyways, I like that EJ calls out the Suns for doing things wrong. We have a good broadcast even though I can't stand our last couple of play-by-lay guys..

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