Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

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Cap
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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by Cap »

Less than Anderson? How?

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by Indy »

I think he meant less than Ariza

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Split T
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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by Split T »

Right. I'd play Ariza and Warren at the 4... Maybe even Holmes. Really the guys I'd give minutes to, in order: Booker, Ayton, Warren, Bridges, Ariza, Holmes. Canaan and Okobo get minutes because we have no other option at PG. Honestly, I might call up George King and see if he could handle a few minutes at the 4. I'd do that before playing Bender.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by In2ition »

On a nice note, Crawford made the first bounce pass off a PnR roll by Ayton that I've seen all year. It was nice and Ayton had to duck as he almost hit his head on the rim as he drove and crammed it through with 2 hands.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by Indy »

Split T wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:34 am
Right. I'd play Ariza and Warren at the 4... Maybe even Holmes. Really the guys I'd give minutes to, in order: Booker, Ayton, Warren, Bridges, Ariza, Holmes. Canaan and Okobo get minutes because we have no other option at PG. Honestly, I might call up George King and see if he could handle a few minutes at the 4. I'd do that before playing Bender.
I agree that you play TJ, Booker, Ayton and Bridges as many minutes as they can take. Surprisingly, that 4-man lineup doesn't crack our top 20 used... that is the frustrating thing about Igor so far.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by Mori Chu »

I think this team gave up on Dragan Bender too soon. Yes, he looked horrendous in summer league. But I just don't see how you can't work with the guy and try to get him through it. He is a pretty decent defender and he was working on his 3-point shot. I think he was the kind of player who could have really helped us at the PF spot next to Ayton and our other core guys. I find it frustrating that we have given minutes to other guys like Ryan Anderson who don't contribute anything. Even if Bender stinks, he won't stink any worse than the guys we have been playing.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

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Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:54 pm
I think this team gave up on Dragan Bender too soon. Yes, he looked horrendous in summer league. But I just don't see how you can't work with the guy and try to get him through it. He is a pretty decent defender and he was working on his 3-point shot. I think he was the kind of player who could have really helped us at the PF spot next to Ayton and our other core guys. I find it frustrating that we have given minutes to other guys like Ryan Anderson who don't contribute anything. Even if Bender stinks, he won't stink any worse than the guys we have been playing.
I assume we made Anderson promises about opportunities to get him to drop his $$ for next year. Not a good reason, but there is something else there. It isn't like anyone watches him play and thinks he is helping. But there probably is the hope that he turns it into what he was doing for Houston the first half of last year where he was shooting pretty good and still had a net +/- above zero.

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Shabazz
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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by Shabazz »

Last year vs OKC, Bender had a game where went for 20-6-4-3-1 on 7-9 shooting and 6-8 from 3. This year he's been DNP-CD twice.

On the flipside, he averaged 1.5 points in the other 2 games he played against OKC last year in 35 mpg. Yeesh.

He did average 13 and 10 in our last 5 games last year on .533 shooting (.467 from 3). I think he's worth throwing out there for a few non-garbage-time minutes to see what we have. In theory he'd be a very solid fit next to Ayton. Preseason is a different animal. Ayton was actually defending with passion in the preseason.

IMO, when you're 2-11, you have a responsibility as a coach to try everything. Bender is the only player on the team that hasn't played a single non-garbage-time minute.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by In2ition »

Shabazz wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:23 pm
Last year vs OKC, Bender had a game where went for 20-6-4-3-1 on 7-9 shooting and 6-8 from 3. This year he's been DNP-CD twice.

On the flipside, he averaged 1.5 points in the other 2 games he played against OKC last year in 35 mpg. Yeesh.

He did average 13 and 10 in our last 5 games last year on .533 shooting (.467 from 3). I think he's worth throwing out there for a few non-garbage-time minutes to see what we have. In theory he'd be a very solid fit next to Ayton. Preseason is a different animal. Ayton was actually defending with passion in the preseason.

IMO, when you're 2-11, you have a responsibility as a coach to try everything. Bender is the only player on the team that hasn't played a single non-garbage-time minute.
Igor's under pressure to turn this thing around and he's already pretty much cut Jackson's and Anderson's minutes. Next on his list is to get Bridges in earlier and play him more. Then he has to figure out this pg problem. I agree that he should try playing Bender more, but he must be really playing like crap in practice to not get any time except as the human white flag.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by O_Gardino »

Split T wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:19 am
O_Gardino wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:14 am
Split T wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:09 am
He looked worse this summer than he's ever looked. I'd be fine if he played, because we suck anyways and Anderson also sucks, but I don't care if he doesn't play. I'd just give those minutes to our wings. Let Warren/Ariza play the 4.
Literally every veteran on this team except Warren looks worse than ever, and our star rook looks unmotivated. Igor should be digging through the bench like a homeless guy in a dumpster behind Panera.
Sure, go ahead and play him. He's just not going to do anything
Just like coach, eh?
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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by O_Gardino »

In2ition wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:39 pm
Shabazz wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:23 pm
Last year vs OKC, Bender had a game where went for 20-6-4-3-1 on 7-9 shooting and 6-8 from 3. This year he's been DNP-CD twice.

On the flipside, he averaged 1.5 points in the other 2 games he played against OKC last year in 35 mpg. Yeesh.

He did average 13 and 10 in our last 5 games last year on .533 shooting (.467 from 3). I think he's worth throwing out there for a few non-garbage-time minutes to see what we have. In theory he'd be a very solid fit next to Ayton. Preseason is a different animal. Ayton was actually defending with passion in the preseason.

IMO, when you're 2-11, you have a responsibility as a coach to try everything. Bender is the only player on the team that hasn't played a single non-garbage-time minute.
Igor's under pressure to turn this thing around and he's already pretty much cut Jackson's and Anderson's minutes. Next on his list is to get Bridges in earlier and play him more. Then he has to figure out this pg problem. I agree that he should try playing Bender more, but he must be really playing like crap in practice to not get any time except as the human white flag.
Kokoskov's rotations and substitution patters have been bad enough that I don't trust him to see who is ready to play and who isn't.
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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by Split T »

What more do you think Igor could be doing? Maybe he gave Anderson too much time to get going, but I'm not gonna be overly critical about him getting 7 games or so to see if his shot would start falling. Maybe it took him too long to realize Bridges needed to play, but he's playing now.

We're 12 games into the season and Anderson and Jackson, our two worst players so far, have been replaced by Warren and Bridges in the rotation. I'd still like to see Bridges get more minutes, but I don't really have any other complaints. We just don't have good players.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by Shabazz »

Split T wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:20 pm
What more do you think Igor could be doing? Maybe he gave Anderson too much time to get going, but I'm not gonna be overly critical about him getting 7 games or so to see if his shot would start falling. Maybe it took him too long to realize Bridges needed to play, but he's playing now.

We're 12 games into the season and Anderson and Jackson, our two worst players so far, have been replaced by Warren and Bridges in the rotation. I'd still like to see Bridges get more minutes, but I don't really have any other complaints. We just don't have good players.
The team seems to come out flat every game and they've shown very little resiliency when things start to go south. The "veteran leaders" have been coasting since game 2.

Strategy and rotations aside, it seems like the right motivational buttons are not getting pushed.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by Split T »

Shabazz wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:29 pm
Split T wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:20 pm
What more do you think Igor could be doing? Maybe he gave Anderson too much time to get going, but I'm not gonna be overly critical about him getting 7 games or so to see if his shot would start falling. Maybe it took him too long to realize Bridges needed to play, but he's playing now.

We're 12 games into the season and Anderson and Jackson, our two worst players so far, have been replaced by Warren and Bridges in the rotation. I'd still like to see Bridges get more minutes, but I don't really have any other complaints. We just don't have good players.
The team seems to come out flat every game and they've shown very little resiliency when things start to go south. The "veteran leaders" have been coasting since game 2.

Strategy and rotations aside, it seems like the right motivational buttons are not getting pushed.
I think that's fair. We definitely have issues, I just don't think minute distributions are at the top

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Mori Chu
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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by Mori Chu »

I don't get all the Igor hate. I think he's doing a decent job with a weak team. He has them passing the ball a decent amount; a lot of our baskets are assisted, and a decent number of times we have a lot of guys with 2-3 assists each. The ball doesn't seem to stick as much as it did in the past. And in general he has responded and changed things that didn't work, like Jackson and Ryno. I don't agree with 100% of what he's doing, but I think he is generally running things pretty well and responding to what he is seeing on the floor.

I do think he is severely hampered by the lack of a PG to run the offense and just in general by the lack of talent on the team. And I also think that he is a bit overmatched when it comes to teaching them how to play defense; I wish we would bring in a defensive specialist to assist him. But I don't think Igor is the biggest problem at all.

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Re: Game Day: Suns (2-9) @ Pelicans (5-6), Sat 11/10/18

Post by INFORMER »

Superbone wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:29 pm
Man, Randle would have been a great target to go after. He's just the kind of PF we need next to Ayton. Maybe his effort and will would have rubbed off on Ayton.
Just draft Zion; he basically does everything Randle does.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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