Game Day: Suns (4-18) @ Lakers (13-9), Sun 12/2/18

[Cap]

Have a feeling Booker is going to be on the shelf for awhile. Talking Stick Resort arena is going to have plenty more empty seats for quite some time. Dark times in the valley.

Yes, sad times indeed. I hope for our sake that we've hit rock bottom.

We’re like the Colorado River. When we hit rock bottom, we keep going and make the Grand Canyon.

[Drewsprocket]

What does James Jones do for a living? Can you imagine what a waste our front office people are doing five days per week? Nothing they do is relevant unless it has to do with upgrading the PG position right now. I feel bad for Igor with this sh*t sammich. He’s coaching such an imbalanced roster and wonky expectations between established players who want to win and players who want to develop.

[Nodack]

I think we hit rock bottom last year. I think this year is better. I don’t care what the record says. Losing to the Lakers and having Booker and Ayton injured is a tough pill to swallow I know but on a positive note I do see an improving Suns team.

Last year I considered Booker to be a Suns starter on the Suns playoff team of the future. Everybody else was a question mark IMO. One player worthy. Warren was gettng close. Everybody else was a NO or a question mark as in the young guys that haven’t proven themselves. Scary.

This year Is different. We have Booker of course. Warren improved his 3pt. shooting and imo sealed a spot. We picked up Ayton in the draft and he went right to starting as a rookie and has more than held his own. Some people forget that this is his rookie season and expect him to be a dominant finished product. We waited how many years for Len and Len was never this good after many years. We picked up Bridges and he got mixed reviews but has earned a starting spot already on the team. We went from having one sure thing starter of the future to having 3-4. That’s an improvement.

With Warren out Jackson has gotten more burn. He has been a disappointment to most including me. Out of control and making silly mistakes not to mention streaky shooting. When Booker went out last year near the end Jackson went on a mini tear and my hopes were raised. This year it seems like he regressed but, once again Booker goes out and Jackson starts playing better with more minutes. Jackson is on the bubble but, his stock is on a slight uptick.

It was nice to see Bender get a little time. I am with you guys that would rather give the minutes to Bender than Anderson. I remember the Suns playing against Anderson and him lighting us ip like a Christmas tree in the past. I guess that was just in the past... Bender has been a big disappointment. He is gun shy on offense but, at least he plays some defense and is young. I would rather him pass up shots and play D than have Anderson miss everything and be Swiss cheese on defense.

[carey]

It was nice to see Bender get a little time. I am with you guys that would rather give the minutes to Bender than Anderson. I remember the Suns playing against Anderson and him lighting us ip like a Christmas tree in the past. I guess that was just in the past... Bender has been a big disappointment. He is gun shy on offense but, at least he plays some defense and is young. I would rather him pass up shots and play D than have Anderson miss everything and be Swiss cheese on defense.

Yeah, man. He just turned 21 two weeks ago. He's so young. I'm really disappointed that he's getting DNP after DNP so we can watch Jackson stink up the joint as bad or worse than Bender. Oh, well. People wonder why I don't want to trade for Ntilikina. It's because our player development sucks and that's putting it mildly.

[Mori Chu]

I think we hit rock bottom last year. I think this year is better. I don’t care what the record says. Losing to the Lakers and having Booker and Ayton injured is a tough pill to swallow I know but on a positive note I do see an improving Suns team.

Last year I considered Booker to be a Suns starter on the Suns playoff team of the future. Everybody else was a question mark IMO. One player worthy. Warren was gettng close. Everybody else was a NO or a question mark as in the young guys that haven’t proven themselves. Scary.

This year Is different. We have Booker of course. Warren improved his 3pt. shooting and imo sealed a spot. We picked up Ayton in the draft and he went right to starting as a rookie and has more than held his own. Some people forget that this is his rookie season and expect him to be a dominant finished product. We waited how many years for Len and Len was never this good after many years. We picked up Bridges and he got mixed reviews but has earned a starting spot already on the team. We went from having one sure thing starter of the future to having 3-4. That’s an improvement.

With Warren out Jackson has gotten more burn. He has been a disappointment to most including me. Out of control and making silly mistakes not to mention streaky shooting. When Booker went out last year near the end Jackson went on a mini tear and my hopes were raised. This year it seems like he regressed but, once again Booker goes out and Jackson starts playing better with more minutes. Jackson is on the bubble but, his stock is on a slight uptick.

It was nice to see Bender get a little time. I am with you guys that would rather give the minutes to Bender than Anderson. I remember the Suns playing against Anderson and him lighting us ip like a Christmas tree in the past. I guess that was just in the past... Bender has been a big disappointment. He is gun shy on offense but, at least he plays some defense and is young. I would rather him pass up shots and play D than have Anderson miss everything and be Swiss cheese on defense.

I agree with this assessment. This isn't rock bottom; that was last year. We at least have SOME pieces now beyond Booker. Just not enough to get wins. Maybe one more high draft pick and offseason trade/signing will get us where we want to go.

[Nodack]

A real PG will help a lot. We may have to wait until next season for that unfortunately.

[Shabazz]

Ryan Anderson should not see time any more. The Lakers usage of Luol Deng, who was benched shortly after signing a huge deal (once they realized he sucks), can be used as an example for vets not being grandfathered into guaranteed PT. We certainly don't owe Anderson more than the Lakers owed Deng.

[Superbone]

I was happy to see Bender finally hit a 3 this season.

[LazarusLong]

Anybody find it troubling that our max-contract, franchise cornerstone is injury prone?
He's missed 32 of the last 105 games, with more DNPs to come with his current hamstring problems.

By way of comparison, Dick Van Arsdale missed eight games in his first three years with the Suns.
He was about the same size, often was assigned to guard the other team's best players.
He averaged about 40 minutes a game and more than 21 ppg over that time.

[AmareIsGod]

Anybody find it troubling that our max-contract, franchise cornerstone is injury prone?
He's missed 32 of the last 105 games, with more DNPs to come with his current hamstring problems.

By way of comparison, Dick Van Arsdale missed eight games in his first three years with the Suns.
He was about the same size, often was assigned to guard the other team's best players.
He averaged about 40 minutes a game and more than 21 ppg over that time.

What was Dicky V's usage %? Minutes aren't a fair indicator.

Devin Booker is 12th in the NBA this season at 31% (https://stats.nba.com/players/usage/?so ... PCT&dir=-1).

And to be fair, in 2015, the NBA was composed of 74.4% black players, 23.3% white players (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ ... in_the_NBA). I'd be curious what the percentage was in 1968 when Van Arsdale played.

I know that a lot of the old school around here like to look at guys of 50 years ago and compare but I'd argue players were significantly less athletic and the game was very different.

Also, in 1968, his first season, we went 16 and 166 (.195 %) and then 39-43 (.476) and 48-34 (.585). We are currently 4-19 (.174) and were 21-61 (.256) and 24-58 (.293) over the last 2 seasons. I think everyone knows that a lot of "star" athletes are unable to play through smaller injuries when the team is terrible. This isn't unique to Booker.

Things aren't apples to apples. 2018 is very different from 1968.

[virtual9mm]

Anybody find it troubling that our max-contract, franchise cornerstone is injury prone?
He's missed 32 of the last 105 games, with more DNPs to come with his current hamstring problems.

By way of comparison, Dick Van Arsdale missed eight games in his first three years with the Suns.
He was about the same size, often was assigned to guard the other team's best players.
He averaged about 40 minutes a game and more than 21 ppg over that time.

What was Dicky V's usage %? Minutes aren't a fair indicator.

Devin Booker is 12th in the NBA this season at 31% (https://stats.nba.com/players/usage/?so ... PCT&dir=-1).

And to be fair, in 2015, the NBA was composed of 74.4% black players, 23.3% white players (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ ... in_the_NBA). I'd be curious what the percentage was in 1968 when Van Arsdale played.

I know that a lot of the old school around here like to look at guys of 50 years ago and compare but I'd argue players were significantly less athletic and the game was very different.

Also, in 1968, his first season, we went 16 and 166 (.195 %) and then 39-43 (.476) and 48-34 (.585). We are currently 4-19 (.174) and were 21-61 (.256) and 24-58 (.293) over the last 2 seasons. I think everyone knows that a lot of "star" athletes are unable to play through smaller injuries when the team is terrible. This isn't unique to Booker.

Things aren't apples to apples. 2018 is very different from 1968.

This is why I don't like Point Booker.

I hate how this season, which started so promisingly, has been derailed by a bunch of factors ranging from injury to youth to veteran angst. I still suspect that they'll get things together. I am hating how Igor seems to be a fantastic system coach that can't seem to adjust his system to circumstances.

I think that they'll need to grab Dragic on the 15th to give Kokoskov the floor leader he has been lacking, and see how this works out.

[AmareIsGod]

Anybody find it troubling that our max-contract, franchise cornerstone is injury prone?
He's missed 32 of the last 105 games, with more DNPs to come with his current hamstring problems.

By way of comparison, Dick Van Arsdale missed eight games in his first three years with the Suns.
He was about the same size, often was assigned to guard the other team's best players.
He averaged about 40 minutes a game and more than 21 ppg over that time.

What was Dicky V's usage %? Minutes aren't a fair indicator.

Devin Booker is 12th in the NBA this season at 31% (https://stats.nba.com/players/usage/?so ... PCT&dir=-1).

And to be fair, in 2015, the NBA was composed of 74.4% black players, 23.3% white players (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ ... in_the_NBA). I'd be curious what the percentage was in 1968 when Van Arsdale played.

I know that a lot of the old school around here like to look at guys of 50 years ago and compare but I'd argue players were significantly less athletic and the game was very different.

Also, in 1968, his first season, we went 16 and 166 (.195 %) and then 39-43 (.476) and 48-34 (.585). We are currently 4-19 (.174) and were 21-61 (.256) and 24-58 (.293) over the last 2 seasons. I think everyone knows that a lot of "star" athletes are unable to play through smaller injuries when the team is terrible. This isn't unique to Booker.

Things aren't apples to apples. 2018 is very different from 1968.

This is why I don't like Point Booker.

I hate how this season, which started so promisingly, has been derailed by a bunch of factors ranging from injury to youth to veteran angst. I still suspect that they'll get things together. I am hating how Igor seems to be a fantastic system coach that can't seem to adjust his system to circumstances.

I think that they'll need to grab Dragic on the 15th to give Kokoskov the floor leader he has been lacking, and see how this works out.

Agree. We've been running Point Book into the ground with our inability to run a serviceable point guard on the floor and on our roster. Our incompetent joke of ownership and GM's that will be fleeced due to our clear NEED for a PG has put us in a bind. I feel for Igor and the rest of the guys having to play with such an incomplete team.

[Superbone]

Anybody find it troubling that our max-contract, franchise cornerstone is injury prone?
He's missed 32 of the last 105 games, with more DNPs to come with his current hamstring problems.

By way of comparison, Dick Van Arsdale missed eight games in his first three years with the Suns.
He was about the same size, often was assigned to guard the other team's best players.
He averaged about 40 minutes a game and more than 21 ppg over that time.

What was Dicky V's usage %? Minutes aren't a fair indicator.

Devin Booker is 12th in the NBA this season at 31% (https://stats.nba.com/players/usage/?so ... PCT&dir=-1).

And to be fair, in 2015, the NBA was composed of 74.4% black players, 23.3% white players (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ ... in_the_NBA). I'd be curious what the percentage was in 1968 when Van Arsdale played.

I know that a lot of the old school around here like to look at guys of 50 years ago and compare but I'd argue players were significantly less athletic and the game was very different.

Also, in 1968, his first season, we went 16 and 166 (.195 %) and then 39-43 (.476) and 48-34 (.585). We are currently 4-19 (.174) and were 21-61 (.256) and 24-58 (.293) over the last 2 seasons. I think everyone knows that a lot of "star" athletes are unable to play through smaller injuries when the team is terrible. This isn't unique to Booker.

Things aren't apples to apples. 2018 is very different from 1968.

This is why I don't like Point Booker.

I hate how this season, which started so promisingly, has been derailed by a bunch of factors ranging from injury to youth to veteran angst. I still suspect that they'll get things together. I am hating how Igor seems to be a fantastic system coach that can't seem to adjust his system to circumstances.

I think that they'll need to grab Dragic on the 15th to give Kokoskov the floor leader he has been lacking, and see how this works out.

Agree. We've been running Point Book into the ground with our inability to run a serviceable point guard on the floor and on our roster. Our incompetent joke of ownership and GM's that will be fleeced due to our clear NEED for a PG has put us in a bind. I feel for Igor and the rest of the guys having to play with such an incomplete team.

>derailed by a bunch of factors ranging from injury to youth to veteran angst
...to roster construction.

Kokoskov was the one saying before the season that his system revolved around his players. Maybe part of it is growing pains but the roster as constructed just isn't cutting it either. Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to put all of our marbles in one bag in signing yet another SF and neglecting the PG position and any size at PF. A lot of factors have come into play to leave us with a big steaming pile of sh...
Shaving cream, be nice and clean
Shave everyday and you'll always look keen.

[LazarusLong]

Anybody find it troubling that our max-contract, franchise cornerstone is injury prone?
He's missed 32 of the last 105 games, with more DNPs to come with his current hamstring problems.

By way of comparison, Dick Van Arsdale missed eight games in his first three years with the Suns.
He was about the same size, often was assigned to guard the other team's best players.
He averaged about 40 minutes a game and more than 21 ppg over that time.

What was Dicky V's usage %? Minutes aren't a fair indicator.

Devin Booker is 12th in the NBA this season at 31% (https://stats.nba.com/players/usage/?so ... PCT&dir=-1).

And to be fair, in 2015, the NBA was composed of 74.4% black players, 23.3% white players (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_ ... in_the_NBA). I'd be curious what the percentage was in 1968 when Van Arsdale played.

I know that a lot of the old school around here like to look at guys of 50 years ago and compare but I'd argue players were significantly less athletic and the game was very different.

Also, in 1968, his first season, we went 16 and 166 (.195 %) and then 39-43 (.476) and 48-34 (.585). We are currently 4-19 (.174) and were 21-61 (.256) and 24-58 (.293) over the last 2 seasons. I think everyone knows that a lot of "star" athletes are unable to play through smaller injuries when the team is terrible. This isn't unique to Booker.

Things aren't apples to apples. 2018 is very different from 1968.

Yes, things are different.
The game now is more finesse.

Then, there were two refs and the game was much more physical.
Van Arsdale also drove to the basket much more than Booker, and took much more of a beating.

Shoes now have better design, equipment is better and the training staff is more advanced.
Still, Booker seems injury prone and that's not good for the franchise's max player.
Hamstring injuries can be avoided with proper stretching and preparation.
I just wonder if Booker will hold up for the long haul.

[INFORMER]

It's because our player development sucks and that's putting it mildly.

If that's true, then we really are doomed.

[INFORMER]

Ryan Anderson should not see time any more. The Lakers usage of Luol Deng, who was benched shortly after signing a huge deal (once they realized he sucks), can be used as an example for vets not being grandfathered into guaranteed PT. We certainly don't owe Anderson more than the Lakers owed Deng.

Bender was atrocious in summer league and didn't do much in preseason. And yet, you're right. It's time to move Bender ahead of him.

[Shabazz]

Ryan Anderson should not see time any more. The Lakers usage of Luol Deng, who was benched shortly after signing a huge deal (once they realized he sucks), can be used as an example for vets not being grandfathered into guaranteed PT. We certainly don't owe Anderson more than the Lakers owed Deng.

Bender was atrocious in summer league and didn't do much in preseason. And yet, you're right. It's time to move Bender ahead of him.

Yup. Time to move Bender all the way to the 12th man in a 9 man rotation.

[The Bobster]

Ryan Anderson should not see time any more. The Lakers usage of Luol Deng, who was benched shortly after signing a huge deal (once they realized he sucks), can be used as an example for vets not being grandfathered into guaranteed PT. We certainly don't owe Anderson more than the Lakers owed Deng.

Bender was atrocious in summer league and didn't do much in preseason. And yet, you're right. It's time to move Bender ahead of him.

Yup. Time to move Bender all the way to the 12th man in a 9 man rotation.

This organization makes us set the bar pretty low.