Phx-Suns.Net

“It would definitely be a lot better if we were more stable,” Jackson told me of his play less than two weeks ago. “I don’t think any other player in my class has gone through as much change within their team as I have. Since the moment I came into the league, it’s just been all about changes and adjustments, new coach after my second game of the season, like, c’mon now, really? That doesn’t happen.”

carey wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:47 pm

Anyone besides Drew read this s**t yet? I'd have Josh Jackson's head on a platter.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/12/1 ... -struggles

“It would definitely be a lot better if we were more stable,” Jackson told me of his play less than two weeks ago. “I don’t think any other player in my class has gone through as much change within their team as I have. Since the moment I came into the league, it’s just been all about changes and adjustments, new coach after my second game of the season, like, c’mon now, really? That doesn’t happen.”

That's why you're playing like crap? O.k. dude.

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:42 pm

I think that can honestly be part of it. I will be the first to admit I was not a fan of the pick originally (I was really high on Isaac), but I think it would be silly to discount an unstable (to be kind) organization that has no leadership, no direction, and a murky (at best) future. Like it or not, we keep doing this to ourselves. We haven't developed a single good prospect in nearly 10 years--you could argue that we helped Booker develop, but I wouldn't.

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:21 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:42 pm

I think that can honestly be part of it. I will be the first to admit I was not a fan of the pick originally (I was really high on Isaac), but I think it would be silly to discount an unstable (to be kind) organization that has no leadership, no direction, and a murky (at best) future. Like it or not, we keep doing this to ourselves. We haven't developed a single good prospect in nearly 10 years--you could argue that we helped Booker develop, but I wouldn't.

I don't think that's fair. We developed Booker. He has gotten better and better in his years in the league. We developed TJ Warren. We developed Alex Len, who is currently starting for another team. We developed Markieff Morris. We developed Robin Lopez. There are probably others I'm forgetting.

Year	Round	Pick	Player
2007	1	24	Rudy Fernández
2007	1	29	Alando Tucker
2007	2	59	D. J. Strawberry
2008	1	15	Robin Lopez
2008	2	48	Malik Hairston
2009	1	14	Earl Clark
2009	2	48	Taylor Griffin
2009	2	57	Emir Preldžič
2010	2	46	Gani Lawal
2010	2	60	Dwayne Collins
2011	1	13	Markieff Morris
2012	1	13	Kendall Marshall
2013	1	5	Alex Len
2013	1	30	Nemanja Nedović
2013	2	57	Alex Oriakhi
2014	1	14	T. J. Warren
2014	1	18	Tyler Ennis
2014	1	27	Bogdan Bogdanović
2014	2	50	Alec Brown
2015	1	13	Devin Booker
2015	2	44	Andrew Harrison
2016	1	4	Dragan Bender
2016	1	13	Georgios Papagiannis
2016	1	28	Skal Labissière
2016	2	34	Tyler Ulis
2017	1	4	Josh Jackson
2017	2	32	Davon Reed
2017	2	54	Alec Peters

Indy wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:55 am

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:21 pm

Indy wrote: ↑

Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:42 pm

I think that can honestly be part of it. I will be the first to admit I was not a fan of the pick originally (I was really high on Isaac), but I think it would be silly to discount an unstable (to be kind) organization that has no leadership, no direction, and a murky (at best) future. Like it or not, we keep doing this to ourselves. We haven't developed a single good prospect in nearly 10 years--you could argue that we helped Booker develop, but I wouldn't.

I don't think that's fair. We developed Booker. He has gotten better and better in his years in the league. We developed TJ Warren. We developed Alex Len, who is currently starting for another team. We developed M******f M****s. We developed Robin Lopez. There are probably others I'm forgetting.

I think you are way off base. You remember that TJ led the ACC in scoring and FG% in college? And that Alex Len is a starting Center on a team just as bad as we are, but can't stay on the court for 20 minutes a night? When you say Lopez, do you mean we developed him for his career after leaving here? Show me a player that we drafted ahead of where they were projected, and it worked. Or a player that we took where he was expected to go, and he is out-performing those taken around him. Or where we took a flyer on a guy late in the draft and he exceeded expectations here.

I know that a lot of that is on the player, but we don't have a track record of this happening.

Here is our draft record since the colangeli left
* This doesn't include guys like Chriss since we technically drafted Papa John and then traded for Chriss
* This doesn't include 2018 because it is too soon (although it looks good for Bridges and Ayton so far)

Code: Select all

Year	Round	Pick	Player
2007	1	24	Rudy Fernández
2007	1	29	Alando Tucker
2007	2	59	D. J. Strawberry
2008	1	15	Robin Lopez
2008	2	48	Malik Hairston
2009	1	14	Earl Clark
2009	2	48	Taylor Griffin
2009	2	57	Emir Preldžič
2010	2	46	Gani Lawal
2010	2	60	Dwayne Collins
2011	1	13	M******f M****s
2012	1	13	Kendall Marshall
2013	1	5	Alex Len
2013	1	30	Nemanja Nedović
2013	2	57	Alex Oriakhi
2014	1	14	T. J. Warren
2014	1	18	Tyler Ennis
2014	1	27	Bogdan Bogdanović
2014	2	50	Alec Brown
2015	1	13	Devin Booker
2015	2	44	Andrew Harrison
2016	1	4	Dragan Bender
2016	1	13	Georgios Papagiannis
2016	1	28	Skal Labissière
2016	2	34	Tyler Ulis
2017	1	4	Josh Jackson
2017	2	32	Davon Reed
2017	2	54	Alec Peters

Of these 28 picks, I think only 3 turned into at least average NBA players for us. Morris, TJ and Booker. And all 3 were lottery selections. We drafted 10 times in the lottery, and only 3 turned into NBA players for us.

So maybe we are just bad at evaluating talent. Or maybe we are bad at developing talent. Or maybe we have a poorly run organization that doesn't let either of those things happen well. Either way, you can't place 100% of the blame on the player.

Split T wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:23 pm

Len is averaging 1 point more a game, but his fg% is down significantly (56% to 49%) his rebounds are down, assists are down, and turnovers are up. He still sucks

carey wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:12 pm

Okobo has been reassigned to the NAZ.

JeremyG wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:22 pm

Incredible stat: 3 of the top 7 rookies in assists per game are Suns players.

Shabazz wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:30 am

In Phoenix, Sarver's management has been infamous for years, and the results have only gotten worse in recent seasons. The Suns have had 12 first round picks in the past six drafts and only three of those players figure to be a long-term starter anywhere in the NBA (Ayton, Booker, and possibly T.J. Warren). The team is on its third coach in three years, the Suns fired GM Ryan McDonough in September, and there's no clear path to building any kind of sustainable success going forward.

In each of the past two drafts, the Suns appeared to decide on their lottery pick several weeks in advance. It's too early to worry about Ayton, but midway through year two, early returns on Josh Jackson are not particularly promising. In drafting those two players—with Sarver rumored to have heavily influenced the Ayton choice—the Suns passed on Jaren Jackson, Jr. and Luka Doncic, not to mention reportedly turning down a Kyrie Irving trade in 2017 and a chance to draft De'Aaron Fox to play next to Booker. The Fox situation was particularly Suns-y. The team never gave serious consideration to Fox because Eric Bledsoe was in place as the starter next to Booker. Six months after the draft, Bledsoe demanded a trade with his "I don't want to be here" tweet. Twelve months after trading Bledsoe, the Suns still don't have a starting point guard.