Game Day: Clippers (16-9) @ Suns (4-22), Mon 12/10/18

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Clippers (16-9) @ Suns (4-22), Mon 12/10/18

Post by Indy »

specialsauce wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:19 am
Indy wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:28 am
specialsauce wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:11 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:23 am
That game was fun.

Did anyone else think we were going to blow it as soon as Igor took out Holmes and put Ayton back in?

Holmes played the first half of the 4th and we were a +11, Ayton comes in for 3 minutes and we go -9. Holmes comes back and plays them even until he fouls out. Ayton come back and puts up a -4 in his time. Ouch.
I thought we would too. So I focused on him the whole time. He was engaged and I thought he made solid rotations and closeouts. The numbers state otherwise but I don’t think he was the direct cause for the collapse.
4th Q
12:00 to 5:14 w/o Ayton: Suns +11
5:14 to 2:38 w/Ayton: Suns -9 (2:36 of game time lost us -9 points!)
2:38 to 0:00 w/o Ayton: Suns 0

OT
5:00 to 3:17 w/o Ayton: Suns 0
3:17 to 0:00 w Ayton: Suns -4

Nobody else on the court was negative in the 4th or OT if Ayton was out of the game.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/bo ... 00PHO.html
Yeah I mean I know the numbers don’t look good, but i think they’re misleading. Didn’t match what I saw
Fair enough. I guess all of our individual eye tests are subjective enough to see a wide range of things. Watching real-time I was pretty bothered by his lack of anything compared to the first half. I think the contrast between what Holmes was doing out there and what Ayton was doing out there really bothered me.

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Clippers (16-9) @ Suns (4-22), Mon 12/10/18

Post by specialsauce »

Indy wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:48 am
specialsauce wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:19 am
Indy wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:28 am
specialsauce wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:11 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:23 am
That game was fun.

Did anyone else think we were going to blow it as soon as Igor took out Holmes and put Ayton back in?

Holmes played the first half of the 4th and we were a +11, Ayton comes in for 3 minutes and we go -9. Holmes comes back and plays them even until he fouls out. Ayton come back and puts up a -4 in his time. Ouch.
I thought we would too. So I focused on him the whole time. He was engaged and I thought he made solid rotations and closeouts. The numbers state otherwise but I don’t think he was the direct cause for the collapse.
4th Q
12:00 to 5:14 w/o Ayton: Suns +11
5:14 to 2:38 w/Ayton: Suns -9 (2:36 of game time lost us -9 points!)
2:38 to 0:00 w/o Ayton: Suns 0

OT
5:00 to 3:17 w/o Ayton: Suns 0
3:17 to 0:00 w Ayton: Suns -4

Nobody else on the court was negative in the 4th or OT if Ayton was out of the game.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/bo ... 00PHO.html
Yeah I mean I know the numbers don’t look good, but i think they’re misleading. Didn’t match what I saw
Fair enough. I guess all of our individual eye tests are subjective enough to see a wide range of things. Watching real-time I was pretty bothered by his lack of anything compared to the first half. I think the contrast between what Holmes was doing out there and what Ayton was doing out there really bothered me.
Outside of Russell Westbrook, which star players are known for their all out hustle 100% of the time?

Honest question. Just seems like those players are typically role players. Not excusing Aytons effort and not supporting it, just an honest observation. Typically I notice those players getting 20 mpg to go all out

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Indy
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Re: Game Day: Clippers (16-9) @ Suns (4-22), Mon 12/10/18

Post by Indy »

Holmes played 25 minutes that night, and Ayton 28. I agree that really only Westbrook is a great player that also plays all out, all the time. I wouldn't expect it from Ayton all game, but I would hope that when you sit most of the 2nd half, you bring it in OT. He had 10 boards just 1 minute into the 2nd half, and got one after the game was out of hand with 15 seconds left in OT. That means he grabbed a total of 1 board during the rest of 3rd/4th/OT.

I hope it is related to conditioning, and not effort.

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Clippers (16-9) @ Suns (4-22), Mon 12/10/18

Post by specialsauce »

I don't know man watching the game we saw it differently. In OT I saw Ayton setting a high pick and Melton and company jacking shots before he could even roll into the paint. He would then roll while the ball was up and try to fight for the rebound over 2 Clippers but they had the inside position so he would end up either tipping it or losing out. It's hard to get rebounds when you're constantly asked to set a screen 30 feet from the hoop and your teammates immediately launch a shot.

I thought our offense got completely away from running any sets in the 4th and OT and that is why we sputtered and lost the game. A lot of standing around and ISO ball. The few times we got the ball down low to Ayton he made the right play.

Now the Spurs game is a different story. I didn't see most of the game but heard we went right back to dog shit.

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Mori Chu
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Re: Game Day: Clippers (16-9) @ Suns (4-22), Mon 12/10/18

Post by Mori Chu »

+/- is a mostly garbage stat when used with individual players. It doesn't factor in who the guy was playing against, who he was playing with, a bunch of other things. I don't think Ayton's +/- numbers tell the real story of his play.

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In2ition
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Re: Game Day: Clippers (16-9) @ Suns (4-22), Mon 12/10/18

Post by In2ition »

Indy wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:28 am
specialsauce wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:11 pm
Indy wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:23 am
That game was fun.

Did anyone else think we were going to blow it as soon as Igor took out Holmes and put Ayton back in?

Holmes played the first half of the 4th and we were a +11, Ayton comes in for 3 minutes and we go -9. Holmes comes back and plays them even until he fouls out. Ayton come back and puts up a -4 in his time. Ouch.
I thought we would too. So I focused on him the whole time. He was engaged and I thought he made solid rotations and closeouts. The numbers state otherwise but I don’t think he was the direct cause for the collapse.
4th Q
12:00 to 5:14 w/o Ayton: Suns +11
5:14 to 2:38 w/Ayton: Suns -9 (2:36 of game time lost us -9 points!)
2:38 to 0:00 w/o Ayton: Suns 0

OT
5:00 to 3:17 w/o Ayton: Suns 0
3:17 to 0:00 w Ayton: Suns -4

Nobody else on the court was negative in the 4th or OT if Ayton was out of the game.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/bo ... 00PHO.html
Those seem like typical numbers from a rookie to me.
"When we all think alike, nobody is thinking" - Walter Lippmann
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them." ~ Frederick Douglass

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