Game Day: Suns (11-46) @ Kings (29-26), Sun 2/10/19

[specialsauce]

Yeah, we looked horrible but I don’t think we’re as far away as you’re all saying. We have some good pieces but we need the rest of them. PG and PF. You add good players in FA at those positions and this team looks a lot better. Coaching is the other question. We need somebody to light a fire under their asses.

Our good pieces are severely overrated.

Maybe the analytics weren't wrong about Booker.

True. Maybe the eyes are just catching up to the computers

[djy2j]

Lousy effort. I’m not worried about the coach anymore. This team will absolutely get him fired at the end of the season. This team won’t eclipse 15 wins and you can’t keep the coach of a team who Loses that much.

There is no improvement from the team nor the coach. Booker is eventually going to get decked by a teammate for barking at him because he is indeed a hypocrite.

The most annoying thing about Ayton is he seems ok with other players just destroying him on the court. Just the Tin Man out there. No real emotion.

I was too irate about the Tyler Johnson trade to realize Troy Daniels was still on the team. Why? What for?

On to the next loss.

[In2ition]

It's odd that Bender had the best +/- for this game at +0. He played really well with Ayton last game and they seemed to click in the high low game. On top of that, we didn't get crushed on the boards with the size out there. Ok, so silly outlandish thought on my part, but why don't they play Bender with Ayton more together?

[The Bobster]

It's odd that Bender had the best +/- for this game at +0. He played really well with Ayton last game and they seemed to click in the high low game. On top of that, we didn't get crushed on the boards with the size out there. Ok, so silly outlandish thought on my part, but why don't they play Bender with Ayton more together?

Because they're to busy trying to decide which of their skinny SFs they want to play against PFs.

[JeremyG]

If we lose our next game, we will tie the longest losing streak in franchise history at 15 games.

[ShelC]

Igor obviously wasn't seeing what he wanted out of Bender to give him minutes. I don't know if Bender's shown more in practice or if Igor's just desperate for size in the frontcourt or looking for depth with TJ out. But we need a PF next to Ayton and Igor won't play Holmes there. We tried Anderson, Ariza, Jackson, Acy and now it's onto Bender. If he could just knock down some 3s he wouldn't be as awful.

Last night's boxscore is important to look at in terms of future minutes. We went 9 deep (Crawford played 4 minutes as a 10th guy) starting Johnson, Booker, Bridges, Jackson and Ayton. All those guys played 30+ minutes which is fine. Off the bench, Okobo saw 18 minutes, Holmes and Bender saw 15 minutes each. Oubre saw 20 minutes. Granted it wasn't his best game but this is what needs to be considered in the offseason with Oubre's potential extension - we don't have enough minutes for our SFs if we're intent on playing an actual PG (Johnson/Okobo/Melton) and a legit PF who will see 30+ minutes. And that's not including TJ's 28+ minutes. We gotta shake things out.

[Vladimir_Taltos]

Booker needs to flip back to SF mode...if we're trying Tyler, do it. Give him point and try it! Appears to me like the Kings backcourt D is what got us last night, which better direction in the floor...PG...might help. And I am worried about the coaching now...was just concerned...now worried. We need a proven commodity here.

[Cap]

Booker needs to flip back to SF mode...if we're trying Tyler, do it. Give him point and try it! Appears to me like the Kings backcourt D is what got us last night, which better direction in the floor...PG...might help. And I am worried about the coaching now...was just concerned...now worried. We need a proven commodity here.

The proven commodity that we need is Jerry Colangelo.

[The Bobster]

Booker needs to flip back to SF mode...if we're trying Tyler, do it. Give him point and try it! Appears to me like the Kings backcourt D is what got us last night, which better direction in the floor...PG...might help. And I am worried about the coaching now...was just concerned...now worried. We need a proven commodity here.

The proven commodity that we need is Jerry Colangelo.

Sadly, that ship has sailed.

I don't see Sarver ever swallowing his pride and asking Colangelo for advice.

[MightyMoog]

What got us, and what gets us every game is that we can't shoot. Any game we shoot it a little better we somehow are in the game. I don't get why they don't just practice shooting. We need to Karate Kid this thing.

[Indy]

Igor obviously wasn't seeing what he wanted out of Bender to give him minutes. I don't know if Bender's shown more in practice or if Igor's just desperate for size in the frontcourt or looking for depth with TJ out. But we need a PF next to Ayton and Igor won't play Holmes there. We tried Anderson, Ariza, Jackson, Acy and now it's onto Bender. If he could just knock down some 3s he wouldn't be as awful.

Last night's boxscore is important to look at in terms of future minutes. We went 9 deep (Crawford played 4 minutes as a 10th guy) starting Johnson, Booker, Bridges, Jackson and Ayton. All those guys played 30+ minutes which is fine. Off the bench, Okobo saw 18 minutes, Holmes and Bender saw 15 minutes each. Oubre saw 20 minutes. Granted it wasn't his best game but this is what needs to be considered in the offseason with Oubre's potential extension - we don't have enough minutes for our SFs if we're intent on playing an actual PG (Johnson/Okobo/Melton) and a legit PF who will see 30+ minutes. And that's not including TJ's 28+ minutes. We gotta shake things out.

The biggest two problems with playing both of them there is:
1) Neither can hit a 3
2) That is our entire front court rotation--who do you bring in when either has to sit for a breather or for foul trouble?

[The Bobster]

These are all symptoms of the bigger problem - they need better players, and coaching, and player development, and player acquisition, and upper management, and above everything else, ownership.

This team is nowhere near being competitive, and it's not going to be fix by signing a couple of veterans because the Suns haven't been a destination franchise since 7 seconds of less ended. (Sorry James Jones, but you're kidding yourself if you think a couple of productive veterans are just going to fall in your lap over the summer - we're going to end up with horseshit free agents like Ariza if we go that route).

This team is spinning its wheels because they don't know how to draft and develop players. They've had ample opportunity, and have failed time and time again.

[gosuns]

It's odd that Bender had the best +/- for this game at +0. He played really well with Ayton last game and they seemed to click in the high low game. On top of that, we didn't get crushed on the boards with the size out there. Ok, so silly outlandish thought on my part, but why don't they play Bender with Ayton more together?

Because they're to busy trying to decide which of their skinny SFs they want to play against PFs.

I have been advocating playing Bender and Ayton together since the start of the season. We got absolutely destroyed in the paint early in this one and that set the tone for the entire game. Bender needs minutes to get his shooting rithm. Also the SF’s aren’t exactly lighting it up on the offensive end. This idea of playing a ton of wings was McD’s and this tenure seems to still be in on this. It just doesn’t work with these players, because we have no one who can break down the opposing defense. So why not fix the defensive end instead and play of the Ayton and Booker Post ups on offense, with the wings cutting back door to the basket if they overplay us?

[Mori Chu]

It's odd that Bender had the best +/- for this game at +0. He played really well with Ayton last game and they seemed to click in the high low game. On top of that, we didn't get crushed on the boards with the size out there. Ok, so silly outlandish thought on my part, but why don't they play Bender with Ayton more together?

I agree with you. I think that Bender/Ayton is our best starting 4/5 pair if you consider their respective strengths and weaknesses and how they would play together. That is of course assuming that Bender plays well and plays to the best of his ability. The way we've given up on Bender is unfortunate IMO. I really think if we had continued to invest in him and give him minutes and pump up his confidence, he could have been a solid starting PF. He is exactly what we need from that position: good shooting, including 3-point range, and smart defense. Granted, he often has bad shooting nights this season. But you can just tell the guy has no confidence. That is partly on him but also partly on our franchise and FO for yanking him around the way we have. From the very start he was getting undercut by Chriss, a bum who has no place on our team. And now we don't pick up his option, we're burying him behind SFs playing PF, we give him big minutes one night and zero minutes the next night. He has no consistency and no confidence shown in him by the team. We messed up his head, and there's a huge mental/psychological component to this game.

[Split T]

It's odd that Bender had the best +/- for this game at +0. He played really well with Ayton last game and they seemed to click in the high low game. On top of that, we didn't get crushed on the boards with the size out there. Ok, so silly outlandish thought on my part, but why don't they play Bender with Ayton more together?

I agree with you. I think that Bender/Ayton is our best starting 4/5 pair if you consider their respective strengths and weaknesses and how they would play together. That is of course assuming that Bender plays well and plays to the best of his ability. The way we've given up on Bender is unfortunate IMO. I really think if we had continued to invest in him and give him minutes and pump up his confidence, he could have been a solid starting PF. He is exactly what we need from that position: good shooting, including 3-point range, and smart defense. Granted, he often has bad shooting nights this season. But you can just tell the guy has no confidence. That is partly on him but also partly on our franchise and FO for yanking him around the way we have. From the very start he was getting undercut by Chriss, a bum who has no place on our team. And now we don't pick up his option, we're burying him behind SFs playing PF, we give him big minutes one night and zero minutes the next night. He has no consistency and no confidence shown in him by the team. We messed up his head, and there's a huge mental/psychological component to this game.

No offense, but I couldn’t disagree more with this opinion. Bender, in theory, might be a good fit next to Ayton, but we’ve never seen that actually show up on the court. He was given plenty of minutes, in fact more than he deserved. Did Chriss get more minutes than he deserved? Of course, but that doesn’t mean Bender deserved those minutes instead. Chriss didn’t pan out, but he was a better player for us than Bender was and I don’t see an argument otherwise.

And I wouldn’t describe Bender’s shooting as having bad shooting nights this season. He’s been an atrocious shooter all season. Bender had one 2 game flash this year when we played him at C with Ayton and Holmes hurt. Otherwise, he’s been awful. It kinda blows my mind people are still on Bender island.

[In2ition]

It's odd that Bender had the best +/- for this game at +0. He played really well with Ayton last game and they seemed to click in the high low game. On top of that, we didn't get crushed on the boards with the size out there. Ok, so silly outlandish thought on my part, but why don't they play Bender with Ayton more together?

I agree with you. I think that Bender/Ayton is our best starting 4/5 pair if you consider their respective strengths and weaknesses and how they would play together. That is of course assuming that Bender plays well and plays to the best of his ability. The way we've given up on Bender is unfortunate IMO. I really think if we had continued to invest in him and give him minutes and pump up his confidence, he could have been a solid starting PF. He is exactly what we need from that position: good shooting, including 3-point range, and smart defense. Granted, he often has bad shooting nights this season. But you can just tell the guy has no confidence. That is partly on him but also partly on our franchise and FO for yanking him around the way we have. From the very start he was getting undercut by Chriss, a bum who has no place on our team. And now we don't pick up his option, we're burying him behind SFs playing PF, we give him big minutes one night and zero minutes the next night. He has no consistency and no confidence shown in him by the team. We messed up his head, and there's a huge mental/psychological component to this game.

No offense, but I couldn’t disagree more with this opinion. Bender, in theory, might be a good fit next to Ayton, but we’ve never seen that actually show up on the court. He was given plenty of minutes, in fact more than he deserved. Did Chriss get more minutes than he deserved? Of course, but that doesn’t mean Bender deserved those minutes instead. Chriss didn’t pan out, but he was a better player for us than Bender was and I don’t see an argument otherwise.

And I wouldn’t describe Bender’s shooting as having bad shooting nights this season. He’s been an atrocious shooter all season. Bender had one 2 game flash this year when we played him at C with Ayton and Holmes hurt. Otherwise, he’s been awful. It kinda blows my mind people are still on Bender island.

You don't agree that he's played well with Ayton? If Bender didn't look so good, but he actually helped Ayton look good? It's a small sample size, but it seemed to me that they played pretty well together the past few games when they actually played together, and that's with Bender shooting terrible from 3.

[ShelC]

If Bender could hit 2 threes a game it'd make a world of difference IMO.

[Split T]

It's odd that Bender had the best +/- for this game at +0. He played really well with Ayton last game and they seemed to click in the high low game. On top of that, we didn't get crushed on the boards with the size out there. Ok, so silly outlandish thought on my part, but why don't they play Bender with Ayton more together?

I agree with you. I think that Bender/Ayton is our best starting 4/5 pair if you consider their respective strengths and weaknesses and how they would play together. That is of course assuming that Bender plays well and plays to the best of his ability. The way we've given up on Bender is unfortunate IMO. I really think if we had continued to invest in him and give him minutes and pump up his confidence, he could have been a solid starting PF. He is exactly what we need from that position: good shooting, including 3-point range, and smart defense. Granted, he often has bad shooting nights this season. But you can just tell the guy has no confidence. That is partly on him but also partly on our franchise and FO for yanking him around the way we have. From the very start he was getting undercut by Chriss, a bum who has no place on our team. And now we don't pick up his option, we're burying him behind SFs playing PF, we give him big minutes one night and zero minutes the next night. He has no consistency and no confidence shown in him by the team. We messed up his head, and there's a huge mental/psychological component to this game.

No offense, but I couldn’t disagree more with this opinion. Bender, in theory, might be a good fit next to Ayton, but we’ve never seen that actually show up on the court. He was given plenty of minutes, in fact more than he deserved. Did Chriss get more minutes than he deserved? Of course, but that doesn’t mean Bender deserved those minutes instead. Chriss didn’t pan out, but he was a better player for us than Bender was and I don’t see an argument otherwise.

And I wouldn’t describe Bender’s shooting as having bad shooting nights this season. He’s been an atrocious shooter all season. Bender had one 2 game flash this year when we played him at C with Ayton and Holmes hurt. Otherwise, he’s been awful. It kinda blows my mind people are still on Bender island.

You don't agree that he's played well with Ayton? If Bender didn't look so good, but he actually helped Ayton look good? It's a small sample size, but it seemed to me that they played pretty well together the past few games when they actually played together, and that's with Bender shooting terrible from 3.

Well I missed the Kings game and only saw the 2nd half of the warriors game. I don’t really remember Bender doing anything in the warriors game. He finished a lob from Jackson but I don’t think he played more than 5 minutes in half 2. I was at the jazz game and don’t recall Bender doing anything that game either.

[Split T]

Bender has averaged 1/6/3/0/0 on .22/.00 shooting the last 3 games.

[In2ition]

We need Cap to break out the +/- numbers of Ayton and Bender playing together in the past week or so, along with Ayton's raw numbers in that time.