Suns News: Week 18 2/11-2/17

[ShelC]

I'd honestly be more OK with Oubre at 12mil a year than TJ at 12mil a year. I just like Oubre's skillset better, all things being equal.

[Indy]

I'd honestly be more OK with Oubre at 12mil a year than TJ at 12mil a year. I just like Oubre's skillset better, all things being equal.

What can you say Kelly does definitively better than TJ? The only think I can come up with is dunk.

Code: Select all

                                                                                           
Player         Season Age  G   MP  FGA  FG% 3PA  3P% eFG%  FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
Kelly Oubre   2018-19  23 57 27.0 11.4 .438 4.8 .314 .504 .781 4.5 1.1 1.0 0.8 1.3 2.6 14.1
T.J. Warren   2018-19  25 43 31.6 14.2 .486 4.2 .428 .549 .815 4.0 1.5 1.2 0.7 1.2 2.8 18.0

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 2/21/2019.

[ShelC]

His splits after the trade are a bit higher, but I like his ball handling, slashing, defense, rebounding, athleticism. Like I said, I just like his skillset better. It's an eye-test kind of thing for me.

[Split T]

Oubre is a much better defender and rebounder than warren. He’s the only guy that kinda plays the 4 ok for us.

[Superbone]

Oubre is a high energy difference maker. When he's on the court, things happen.

[The Bobster]

I'd honestly be more OK with Oubre at 12mil a year than TJ at 12mil a year. I just like Oubre's skillset better, all things being equal.

What can you say Kelly does definitively better than TJ? The only think I can come up with is dunk.

Code: Select all

                                                                                           
Player         Season Age  G   MP  FGA  FG% 3PA  3P% eFG%  FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
Kelly Oubre   2018-19  23 57 27.0 11.4 .438 4.8 .314 .504 .781 4.5 1.1 1.0 0.8 1.3 2.6 14.1
T.J. Warren   2018-19  25 43 31.6 14.2 .486 4.2 .428 .549 .815 4.0 1.5 1.2 0.7 1.2 2.8 18.0

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 2/21/2019.

His defense, and he gets to the line more often because he drives a lot more, but that's really about it

[carey]

His defense, and he gets to the line more often because he drives a lot more, but that's really about it

TJ drives plenty only he flips that shot up before contact 90% of the time.

But yeah, when talking about Oubre defense is his 1a.

[Indy]

He certainly shows more energy on defense, but his Defensive Win Shares are the exact same, and their Defensive Ratings are 116 vs 114. So TJ gives up 2 more points per 100 possessions than Kelly. Not much difference. I guess it is just an eye tests, because basic and advanced stats say there isn't much difference there.

[ShelC]

I used to say all the time, there's a difference between 8 assists a game from Steve Nash and 8 assists a game from Steph Marbury.

[rhylek]

Oubre shows fire, we need that.
And he seems happy to be here, Warren not so.

[Split T]

Oubre actually protects the rim a little bit...not so much with warren.

[Split T]

He certainly shows more energy on defense, but his Defensive Win Shares are the exact same, and their Defensive Ratings are 116 vs 114. So TJ gives up 2 more points per 100 possessions than Kelly. Not much difference. I guess it is just an eye tests, because basic and advanced stats say there isn't much difference there.

I don’t really trust advanced stats on defense. Even still, they have the same defensive win shares, but Warren has played twice the minutes. Add Oubre’s time in Washington and he has twice the win shares as Warren

[AmareIsGod]

I'd honestly be more OK with Oubre at 12mil a year than TJ at 12mil a year. I just like Oubre's skillset better, all things being equal.

What can you say Kelly does definitively better than TJ? The only think I can come up with is dunk.

Code: Select all

                                                                                           
Player         Season Age  G   MP  FGA  FG% 3PA  3P% eFG%  FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
Kelly Oubre   2018-19  23 57 27.0 11.4 .438 4.8 .314 .504 .781 4.5 1.1 1.0 0.8 1.3 2.6 14.1
T.J. Warren   2018-19  25 43 31.6 14.2 .486 4.2 .428 .549 .815 4.0 1.5 1.2 0.7 1.2 2.8 18.0

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 2/21/2019.

He's available. He plays. He's active on the roster. How hard is that to comprehend? It's the same thing I've felt as a Diamondbacks fan. AJ Pollock puts up All Star numbers but misses 50 or so games a season. I wasn't upset at all when he signed elsewhere this off-season. I don't want a guy that puts up great numbers but always misses a sizable chunk of games. What good does that do you as a team?

[Bucktastic365]

His splits after the trade are a bit higher, but I like his ball handling, slashing, defense, rebounding, athleticism. Like I said, I just like his skillset better. It's an eye-test kind of thing for me.

Agree.
I'd love a trifecta of Bridges, Oubre, and Jackson.

[Indy]

He certainly shows more energy on defense, but his Defensive Win Shares are the exact same, and their Defensive Ratings are 116 vs 114. So TJ gives up 2 more points per 100 possessions than Kelly. Not much difference. I guess it is just an eye tests, because basic and advanced stats say there isn't much difference there.

I don’t really trust advanced stats on defense. Even still, they have the same defensive win shares, but Warren has played twice the minutes. Add Oubre’s time in Washington and he has twice the win shares as Warren

That is a good point. And I do like his activity and fire. I hope that is not just his contract year activity and fire.

[Ring_Wanted]

For the life of me I can't believe some people are actually in favor of trading Warren and keeping Jackson. One is proven as a scorer and actually has improved as a shooter. Sure has limitations, but at least is a positive on one end of the floor.

The other is one of the worst offensive players in the whole NBA and doesn't bring anything relevant elsewhere, including defense. If Jackson was not a #4 pick nobody would want him to play more than 15mpg, and that's being generous.

Please take a look at this graph (via Reddit) showing the best and worst offensive players in the league:



And that's far from stat noise. When you watch Jackson play, most times all you see is a weak guy with some handles but who is just a TO waiting to happen, who can't make shots and who goes hard against a wall of defenders and launches a brick towards the rim. When was the last time he locked anyone down on defense?

He gives me the same vibes Brandon Knight did.

[Indy]

For the life of me I can't believe some people are actually in favor of trading Warren and keeping Jackson. One is proven as a scorer and actually has improved as a shooter. Sure has limitations, but at least is a positive on one end of the floor.

The other is one of the worst offensive players in the whole NBA and doesn't bring anything relevant elsewhere, including defense. If Jackson was not a #4 pick nobody would want him to play more than 15mpg, and that's being generous.

Please take a look at this graph (via Reddit) showing the best and worst offensive players in the league:



And that's far from stat noise. When you watch Jackson play, most times all you see is a weak guy with some handles but who is just a TO waiting to happen, who can't make shots and who goes hard against a wall of defenders and launches a brick towards the rim. When was the last time he locked anyone down on defense?

He gives me the same vibes Brandon Knight did.

But TJ misses so many games... and doesn't rebound... and doesn't pass.

[Ring_Wanted]

Yeah, and Ayton doesn't protect the rim. And Booker doesn't defend either, and can't carry a whole NBA franchise on his shoulders. And Bridges can't do anything with the ball on his hands other than shoot when wide open. And Oubre is average at everything and good at nothing. And the coach has no idea how to use his big man and shows no fire when teams and refs abuse him. And the rest of this franchise is not worthy of any further comment.

Just contract the league and get rid of the team then.

[Shabazz]

Just contract the league and get rid of the team then.

They’d be doing us all a favor. At least I wouldn’t have to self-flagellate 3-4 nights a week.

[ShelC]

Serious question...do you watch the games?