Game Day: Suns (11-48) @ Cavaliers (12-46), Thurs 2/21/19

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Gladiator
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-48) @ Cavaliers (12-46), Thurs 2/21/19

Post by Gladiator »

JeremyG wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:59 pm
iLLmatic wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:20 pm
LazarusLong wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:20 pm
All World Center Ante Zizic outplays DeAndre "What, Me Worry?" Ayton.
Generational talent. He's Hakeem mixed with Patrick Ewing.. ahahaha.
We may all be frustrated with his effort at times, but the stats he is putting up have hardly ever been put up by a rookie.

As far as Hakeem and Ewing (who were much older as rookies), rookie seasons per 36 minutes:

Rebounds:
Olajuwon 12.0
Ewing 9.2
Ayton 12.2

Points:
Olajuwon 20.9
Ewing 20.3
Ayton 19.1
I’m not sure this is a good comparison, statistically. The game is played at such a higher pace now - there are so many more possessions per 36, so therefore chances to score or rebound. Ayton is having a good rookie year but I reckon that’s a bit misleading.
(I of course say this based off nothing more than my gut feel so I could be way off base!!)

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The Bobster
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-48) @ Cavaliers (12-46), Thurs 2/21/19

Post by The Bobster »

Here you have him per 100 possessions compared to all the other centers drafted #1 overall since 1973-74 (along with their ages) -

2018 - Ayton (20) - .587 FG%, 16.2 Reb, 25.5 Pts
1977 - Benson (23) - .465 FG%, 10.1 Reb, 18.2 Pts
2005 - Bogut (21) - .533 FG%, 12.8 Reb, 17.2 Pts
2001 - Brown (19) - .387 FG%, 13.2 Reb, 17.2 Pts
1980 - Carroll (22) - .491 FG%, 12.4 Reb, 24,2 Pts
1986 - Daugherty (21) - .538 FG%, 11.4 Reb, 22.0 Pts
2012 - Davis (19) - .516 FG%, 15.3 Reb, 25.5 Pts
1997 - Duncan (21) - .549 FG%, 16.6 Reb, 29.3 Pts
1989 - Ellison (22) - .442 FG%, 11.2 Reb, 15.5 Pts
1985 - Ewing (23) - .474 FG%, 12.4 Reb, 27.4 Pts
2004 - Howard (19) - .520 FG%, 15.6 Reb, 18.6 Pts
2007 - Oden (21) - .564 FG%, 17.9 Reb, 22.8 Pts
1984 - Olajuwon (22) - .538 FG%, 15.7 Reb, 27.3 Pts
1998 - Olowakandi (23) - .431 FG%, 15.0 Reb, 16.8 Pts
1992 - O'Neal (20) - .562 FG%, 18.2 Reb, 30.7 Pts
1987 - Robinson (24) - .531 FG%, 16.0 Reb, 32.4 Pts
1983 - Sampson (23) - .523 FG%, 15.5 Reb, 29.3 Pts
1978 - Thompson (24) - .490 FG%, 13.1 Reb, 23.2 Pts
2015 - Towns (20) - .542 FG%, 16.5 Reb, 28.8 Pts
1974 - Walton (22) - .513 FG%, 17.5 Reb, 17.8 Pts
2002 - Yao (22) - 498 FG%, 15.3 Reb, 25.1 Pts

The only two who he really doesn't respectably compare well with are O'Neal and Robinson.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-48) @ Cavaliers (12-46), Thurs 2/21/19

Post by Ring_Wanted »

When you look at %s league wide, you see that Ayton is at 72'4% in the restricted area (on 6'6 atempts). Among players shooting a similar amount (first page on nba.com), only Giannis, Howard and Sabonis have a better %.

On shots in the paint (non restricted area) he shoots 48'1%. Among that same group, he is topped only by Jokic (51'6%), KAT (49'4%) and Booker(!) at 50'7% !.

Even from midrange he is good among big men at 40'3%, with relevant volume at 3 attempts per game. That's better than Embiid, Davis, KAT and Jokic.

Make no mistake, Ayton is already a monster on offense and probably won't take long to get even better there. Putting the ball on the floor for a power move to the basket expanding his range to 3pt are well within grasp. He is more than capable to recognize cutters for passes off double teams if people don't just stand around.

Now, will he ever become a terror rim protector? Seems doubtful, but if you add a PF who can do that and shoot threes, Ayton is more than capable of defending stretch PFs on the perimeter (who also trend to be limited with the ball) and switching to guards.

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ShelC
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-48) @ Cavaliers (12-46), Thurs 2/21/19

Post by ShelC »

I'm not worried in the least about Ayton's game around the basket or from midrange - tho it would be nice to see more aggression and assertiveness. I just want to see more of it because that's how he'll get better. Right now he's just screening and (trying to) catch lobs. The face-up game and 3pt shot I'm less concerned about but I think he's definitely smooth enough and has a good enough touch to add those other things.

Defensively, I just want to see him in position at the rim. He can be just as effective being in position as he can be blocking shots.

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INFORMER
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-48) @ Cavaliers (12-46), Thurs 2/21/19

Post by INFORMER »

Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:56 am
Make no mistake, Ayton is already a monster on offense
If by "monster" you mean efficient, then sure. But if yo are talking about impact, I don't think that statement is even close to reality.
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The Bobster
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-48) @ Cavaliers (12-46), Thurs 2/21/19

Post by The Bobster »

We've seen what he's capable of when he's engaged and his teammates look for him. But usually at some point his teammates have stopped looking for him and he starts to drift offensively.

And defensively, he has a long way to go.
Author of The Basketball Draft Fact Book: A History of Professional Basketball's College Drafts
Available from Scarecrow Press at - https://rowman.com/ISBN/9780810890695

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Ring_Wanted
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Re: Game Day: Suns (11-48) @ Cavaliers (12-46), Thurs 2/21/19

Post by Ring_Wanted »

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:19 am
Ring_Wanted wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:56 am
Make no mistake, Ayton is already a monster on offense
If by "monster" you mean efficient, then sure. But if yo are talking about impact, I don't think that statement is even close to reality.
I don't mind taking down a notch the monster stuff but don't paint it like he is DeAndre Jordan or something (no straw man intended). Ayton is not just efficient. He is multi-skilled on offense and pretty hard to guard.

Now, is he dominant? No. Not yet, and the concerns about his mindset are legitimate.

And now he is even running his mouth and that makes him even more of a target.

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