Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by specialsauce »

In2ition wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:39 am
djy2j wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:44 pm
Welp, this game was dedicated to Zion. Over at the tip. Pathetic effort and got worked by a bunch of GLeaguers.
Everyone was trash.

Ayton has a bunch of empty stats. Most coming after the defender had given up or left him wide open. Then Go hug the guy who worked you after the game. :roll:

Not sure how Spaulding didn’t get mins over Bender especially since every g league player was having a career night. Bender is so pathetic.

Oh well. Pad our lottery odds I guess.
I thought Ayton played really well tonight. One of his best of the season and he was the only player that was impactful tonight. They weren't empty stats. Yeah, he had a hard time with the Lopez hook, but Lopez also had that going consistently and was money.
Agree.

Lopez made shots with Ayton right in his face. It was just a good game for him tonight.

I thought Ayton was one of the few to play well last night.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by specialsauce »

Wormwood wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:19 am
Across so many of the best statistics that measure the sum of offensive and defensive impact, Josh Jackson is God-awful.

According to ESPN's Real Plus Minus (RPM), his RPM Win share is 481st out of 503 players. (i.e. he's hurt us on the court more than just about any player in the league)

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/ ... /sort/WINS

According to basketball reference, his Winshares of -1.6 is the worst in the league by a wide margin.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/le ... anced.html

According to NBAmath.com, Jackson's Total Points Added (TPA) is 3rd worst in the league (673rd out of 675 measured)

https://nbamath.com/2018-19-nba-tpa/

The short version is he's brutal on offense, and despite some effort on defense, he's still a net negative on defense as well due to low bball IQ. PLEASE stop pretending he's an average, or even slightly below average player. At this point, he's freaking terrible. On top of that, he was about as bad last year in each of these stats (508th out of 521 in RPM, 3rd from last in winshares, 2nd to last in TPA). In other words, the stats don't show an improvement.

I'm sorry, but he's got to go over the summer. Keep Bridges and Oubre, send out Jackson and Warren for a PG or a SF like Tyus Jones or Daniel Theis in a S&T.
+10000.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by djy2j »

specialsauce wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:34 am
In2ition wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:39 am
djy2j wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:44 pm
Welp, this game was dedicated to Zion. Over at the tip. Pathetic effort and got worked by a bunch of GLeaguers.
Everyone was trash.

Ayton has a bunch of empty stats. Most coming after the defender had given up or left him wide open. Then Go hug the guy who worked you after the game. :roll:

Not sure how Spaulding didn’t get mins over Bender especially since every g league player was having a career night. Bender is so pathetic.

Oh well. Pad our lottery odds I guess.
I thought Ayton played really well tonight. One of his best of the season and he was the only player that was impactful tonight. They weren't empty stats. Yeah, he had a hard time with the Lopez hook, but Lopez also had that going consistently and was money.
Agree.

Lopez made shots with Ayton right in his face. It was just a good game for him tonight.

I thought Ayton was one of the few to play well last night.
I'll clarify. Didn't mean to say he had a bad game. He looked aggressive and made some good moves. Just felt alot of his points came on plays where the defense broke down and left him wide open plus he game most of it back on defense. He had some nice blocks and looked engaged but Lopez and Feliciano werent really deterred. I just don't think he was as dominant as his stat line suggests is all.
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by ShelC »

I wish we would post Ayton up for easy touches the way the Bulls posted up RoLo to start the game. Ayton's gotta work harder to keep a guy from establishing that position. RoLo was just walking him down to the rim and posting. Another learning experience - hit 'em at the top of the key and make 'em work!

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by The Bobster »

Lopez and Feliciano played well offensively because...

A- Ayton/Bender/Spaulding allowed Lopez to get good post position to many times, and despite what a lot of fans think of him, Lopez is a competent center.

B - Every time the Suns' centers went to help out on defense the Bulls' big men crashed the boards and nobody put a body on them (Lopez & Feliciano combined for 9 offensive rebounds), because in many cases we were only playing one big man at a time.

Ayton made 12 of 17 shots for his 25 points, which is pretty good (except only 1 FTA), but Booker shot 9/24 FG and 6/10 FT for his 25. Which of those two was really the "empty stats"?
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by The Bobster »

ShelC wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:09 am
I wish we would post Ayton up for easy touches the way the Bulls posted up RoLo to start the game. Ayton's gotta work harder to keep a guy from establishing that position. RoLo was just walking him down to the rim and posting. Another learning experience - hit 'em at the top of the key and make 'em work!
Well, we're busy having him screen 25 feet from the basket, part is we don't have players who can make an entry pass, and part is that Ayton isn't aggressive enough when he gets the ball and it isn't point blank range.
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by djy2j »

The Bobster wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:19 am
ShelC wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:09 am
I wish we would post Ayton up for easy touches the way the Bulls posted up RoLo to start the game. Ayton's gotta work harder to keep a guy from establishing that position. RoLo was just walking him down to the rim and posting. Another learning experience - hit 'em at the top of the key and make 'em work!
Well, we're busy having him screen 25 feet from the basket, part is we don't have players who can make an entry pass, and part is that Ayton isn't aggressive enough when he gets the ball and it isn't point blank range.
Which brings me back to the coaching dilemma. At this point in the season how do we still have so many players that can't make an entry pass? This should have been a focal point day 1 when they knew they weren't getting a PG. I just don't know how a team with so many glaring weaknesses still has the same weaknesses 5 months into the season. It's absurd.
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by Shabazz »

In2ition wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:39 am
djy2j wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:44 pm
Welp, this game was dedicated to Zion. Over at the tip. Pathetic effort and got worked by a bunch of GLeaguers.
Everyone was trash.

Ayton has a bunch of empty stats. Most coming after the defender had given up or left him wide open. Then Go hug the guy who worked you after the game. :roll:

Not sure how Spaulding didn’t get mins over Bender especially since every g league player was having a career night. Bender is so pathetic.

Oh well. Pad our lottery odds I guess.
I thought Ayton played really well tonight. One of his best of the season and he was the only player that was impactful tonight. They weren't empty stats. Yeah, he had a hard time with the Lopez hook, but Lopez also had that going consistently and was money.
Agreed.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by ShelC »

and part is that Ayton isn't aggressive enough when he gets the ball and it isn't point blank range.
I've seen others say this and I don't find it to be true.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by Indy »

ShelC wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:04 am
and part is that Ayton isn't aggressive enough when he gets the ball and it isn't point blank range.
I've seen others say this and I don't find it to be true.
I would amend it to say:

Ayton doesn't move aggressively towards the basket enough when he gets the ball and it isn't point blank range.

He isn't shy about taking shots, he just chooses the less-aggressive way of doing it, and doesn't initiate contact or make people move to stop him.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by specialsauce »

Indy wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:12 am
ShelC wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:04 am
and part is that Ayton isn't aggressive enough when he gets the ball and it isn't point blank range.
I've seen others say this and I don't find it to be true.
I would amend it to say:

Ayton doesn't move aggressively towards the basket enough when he gets the ball and it isn't point blank range.

He isn't shy about taking shots, he just chooses the less-aggressive way of doing it, and doesn't initiate contact or make people move to stop him.
I would agree with this. When he had Harden defending him, he kept trying to go around him rather than just immediately backing him down and dunking over him. He should score every time a guard is switched onto him.

When he backs down with intention, good things tend to happen. It’s a rare occasion.

I think he’ll learn. He’s evolved through the season. I’m not worried about him at all. He seems willing to learn and has improved his all around game since the beginning of the year.

If he had a half decent PG that could feed him or a system more dedicated to him getting consistent looks throughout the game, he would be ROY, I got no doubt he would be averaging 20 and 10.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by Indy »

Not only backing guys down, but he is skilled enough with the ball and his agility to drive right at guys. He doesn't do that enough.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by In2ition »

Indy wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:22 pm
Not only backing guys down, but he is skilled enough with the ball and his agility to drive right at guys. He doesn't do that enough.
I agree. It almost feels like this is by design. Although, he's universally implored to be more aggressive. We know he's not allowed to shoot from 3, but could there be other rules in place for him that he's not allowed to do right now?

I'm also a little worried about his hands. There were a couple passes that weren't perfect, but I thought he should have gotten them. Instead they ended up being live ball turnovers that turned into points at the other end.
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by ShelC »

I think Ayton has his sweet spots right now where he's comfortable. We just don't do a good enough job of getting him more opportunities.

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by Superbone »

While we're speaking of all things Ayton, has anybody else noticed that he very rarely wins the opening tip?
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by In2ition »

Superbone wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:57 pm
While we're speaking of all thing Ayton, has anybody else noticed that he very rarely wins the opening tip?
Yeah, I've noticed this too. It's not a big deal at the beginning of the game imo, but jump balls during or in OT is a big deal. Why does he suck so bad about this? Could be his timing is bad, possibly that he's not a great explosive stand still jumper, or he just doesn't care so much about this.
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by Superbone »

In2ition wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:19 pm
Superbone wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:57 pm
While we're speaking of all thing Ayton, has anybody else noticed that he very rarely wins the opening tip?
Yeah, I've noticed this too. It's not a big deal at the beginning of the game imo, but jump balls during or in OT is a big deal. Why does he suck so bad about this? Could be his timing is bad, possibly that he's not a great explosive stand still jumper, or he just doesn't care so much about this.
I think it's Embiid that I read he wants to win every jump ball. I wish this was Ayton's mentality.
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by In2ition »

Superbone wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:42 pm
In2ition wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:19 pm
Superbone wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:57 pm
While we're speaking of all thing Ayton, has anybody else noticed that he very rarely wins the opening tip?
Yeah, I've noticed this too. It's not a big deal at the beginning of the game imo, but jump balls during or in OT is a big deal. Why does he suck so bad about this? Could be his timing is bad, possibly that he's not a great explosive stand still jumper, or he just doesn't care so much about this.
I think it's Embiid that I read he wants to win every jump ball. I wish this was Ayton's mentality.
Right?
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Re: Game Day: Bulls (19-52) @ Suns (17-54), Mon 3/18/19

Post by Shabazz »

In2ition wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:19 pm
Superbone wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:57 pm
While we're speaking of all thing Ayton, has anybody else noticed that he very rarely wins the opening tip?
Yeah, I've noticed this too. It's not a big deal at the beginning of the game imo, but jump balls during or in OT is a big deal. Why does he suck so bad about this? Could be his timing is bad, possibly that he's not a great explosive stand still jumper, or he just doesn't care so much about this.
That's it.

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