Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by Superbone »

I hope Ayton learns how to play a whole game next year. He seems to have these hot starts in the first quarter and then he’s pretty quiet the rest of the way.
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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by Indy »

Superbone wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:00 pm
I hope Ayton learns how to play a whole game next year. He seems to have these hot starts in the first quarter and then he’s pretty quiet the rest of the way.
I think it was Jeremy that said it earlier. His conditioning is just not good. Take a look at his shot chart between first and second quarter. His FG% is basically the same, but he is getting his shots further from the basket, and the ones closer to the basket he is missing. He just loses so much gas.

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by Split T »

I think the fouls were the big thing that took Ayton out of the game.

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

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Cap
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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by Cap »

Split T wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:47 am
It’s like sometimes these players forget they’re in public.

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by Mori Chu »

I caught only parts of this game. I am always watching Bender to see how he'll do. He had a few nice defensive plays on Griffin, but his stat line makes it look like he hardly even showed up: 2 points on 1-4 shooting with 4 boards and 5 fouls.

This game was another one where Josh Jackson frustrated me to no end. 1-7 shooting, bad decisions, turnovers, charging. I just don't like the effect he has when he's on the floor and I don't want to watch him any more. We have to get rid of this guy and flip him for any kind of asset while we still can.

Bridges had a good game. 13 points on 5-12 shooting, 7 assists, 3 boards. The 2-8 three-point shooting could have been better, though. I think of Bridges as a 3-and-D wing but his 3-pointer really isn't automatic yet.

Ayton's numbers are deceptive; he had 20 points on 9-12 shooting (!) with 8 boards and 5 fouls. But as others have pointed out, his impact felt less than his stats and it was skewed toward the early part of the game. Still, when you are nitpicking your rookie big man's 20-point game, you have a talented rookie on your hands. Still optimistic about Ayton.

We lost to a team we are supposed to lose to. Get those ping-pong balls.

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=401071750

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by The Bobster »

Cap wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:52 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:47 am
It’s like sometimes these players forget they’re in public.

I find Booker to be less and less likable every year.
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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by The Bobster »

Split T wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:14 am
I think the fouls were the big thing that took Ayton out of the game.
Exactly. He went into the game in the third quarter at one point on the offensive end, picked up a foul on the very next trip down to the defensive end and was pulled out. It's hard to do much with your ass on the bench.
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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by In2ition »

Split T wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:56 pm
Why haven’t we seen George King? Has he ever even been active for a game? There’s no chance we’d use up his 45 days of nba service.
He is in a boot and crutches. Pretty sure he is done for the rest of the year.
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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by djy2j »

The Bobster wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:49 am
Cap wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:52 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:47 am
It’s like sometimes these players forget they’re in public.

I find Booker to be less and less likable every year.
In his defense I'm sure he's tired of seeing these guys make the same mistakes over and over. This reminds me of something Kobe would do. We all hate Kobe but we all (should) respect him. Booker wants to be a winner and appears he wants his squad to develop winning habits so I'm not mad at him for this. I have been pretty underwhelmed with the development of Melton and especially Okobo. Guards usually figure it out before big men but these two have shown me nothing lately that proves they should be in the league. Melton showed some signs early this season but he's developed the Bender "I'm terrified to shoot" complex which is alarming.
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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by Mori Chu »

The Bobster wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:49 am
I find Booker to be less and less likable every year.
I agree to an extent. Going through year after year of losing and perpetually "rebuilding" is tough on a player. It must be hard to be a consummate professional every year on such a mess of a team.

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by Split T »

In2ition wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:56 am
Split T wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:56 pm
Why haven’t we seen George King? Has he ever even been active for a game? There’s no chance we’d use up his 45 days of nba service.
He is in a boot and crutches. Pretty sure he is done for the rest of the year.
Ah, did not know that. Makes more sense now.

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by Split T »

djy2j wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:03 am
The Bobster wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:49 am
Cap wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:52 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:47 am
It’s like sometimes these players forget they’re in public.

I find Booker to be less and less likable every year.
In his defense I'm sure he's tired of seeing these guys make the same mistakes over and over. This reminds me of something Kobe would do. We all hate Kobe but we all (should) respect him. Booker wants to be a winner and appears he wants his squad to develop winning habits so I'm not mad at him for this. I have been pretty underwhelmed with the development of Melton and especially Okobo. Guards usually figure it out before big men but these two have shown me nothing lately that proves they should be in the league. Melton showed some signs early this season but he's developed the Bender "I'm terrified to shoot" complex which is alarming.
I’m ok with booker getting on players in an appropriate way for making mistakes. We need someone to get on him though for his defensive lapses.

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by Indy »

Split T wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:36 am
djy2j wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:03 am
The Bobster wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:49 am
Cap wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:52 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:47 am
It’s like sometimes these players forget they’re in public.

I find Booker to be less and less likable every year.
In his defense I'm sure he's tired of seeing these guys make the same mistakes over and over. This reminds me of something Kobe would do. We all hate Kobe but we all (should) respect him. Booker wants to be a winner and appears he wants his squad to develop winning habits so I'm not mad at him for this. I have been pretty underwhelmed with the development of Melton and especially Okobo. Guards usually figure it out before big men but these two have shown me nothing lately that proves they should be in the league. Melton showed some signs early this season but he's developed the Bender "I'm terrified to shoot" complex which is alarming.
I’m ok with booker getting on players in an appropriate way for making mistakes. We need someone to get on him though for his defensive lapses.
Agreed. Especially if they talk about it in the locker room too. Just yelling at him on the court is one thing, but you need to do it face to face afterwards, too. And you can't yell at your coach and tell him who to sub and when. That is bullshit.

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by The Bobster »

However, Booker himself has the highest turnover rate on the team.

I don't see the other players calling him out on the court like he's started to do with other players.

A few games ago he was getting on Bridges about a defensive rotation and all I could think was "Really? He's yelling at Bridges about defense?"

There's a fine line between being a vocal leader and being an aashole.
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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by AmareIsGod »

Indy wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:44 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:36 am
djy2j wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:03 am
The Bobster wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:49 am
Cap wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:52 am


It’s like sometimes these players forget they’re in public.

I find Booker to be less and less likable every year.
In his defense I'm sure he's tired of seeing these guys make the same mistakes over and over. This reminds me of something Kobe would do. We all hate Kobe but we all (should) respect him. Booker wants to be a winner and appears he wants his squad to develop winning habits so I'm not mad at him for this. I have been pretty underwhelmed with the development of Melton and especially Okobo. Guards usually figure it out before big men but these two have shown me nothing lately that proves they should be in the league. Melton showed some signs early this season but he's developed the Bender "I'm terrified to shoot" complex which is alarming.
I’m ok with booker getting on players in an appropriate way for making mistakes. We need someone to get on him though for his defensive lapses.
Agreed. Especially if they talk about it in the locker room too. Just yelling at him on the court is one thing, but you need to do it face to face afterwards, too. And you can't yell at your coach and tell him who to sub and when. That is bullshit.
He did. People are making much ado about nothing.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/ ... 242502002/
After the game, Booker and Melton were having a fun conversation in the locker room as cooler heads had prevailed. Still, Booker didn't hesitate when it came to talking about Melton's turnovers when asked about his frustrations with the rookie point guard.

"I told him the court don't move," said a grinning Booker. "P.J. Tucker used to do that all the time (to him). I used to hate it, but it's just part of the game. It's a learning experience. Just knowing the floor and how to run the floor on the wing. He's usually a point guard and probably never been in the corner that much. It's a tough learn, but he'll pick up on it."

Booker addressed Melton during a timeout after the turnover. To him, it's all part of being the team leader.

"That's my job," Booker said. "I'll get on people. That's part of it. It's tough love. You have to learn and there's different ways of learning. There's different ways of teaching. There's different ways of leading. My job is to get that point across."
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by AmareIsGod »

The Bobster wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:21 am
However, Booker himself has the highest turnover rate on the team.

I don't see the other players calling him out on the court like he's started to do with other players.

A few games ago he was getting on Bridges about a defensive rotation and all I could think was "Really? He's yelling at Bridges about defense?"

There's a fine line between being a vocal leader and being an aashole.
I guess he should just shrug off his teammates mistakes, being the guy with a max contract, since he makes mistakes too.

Leadership = accountability. Do we think he just looks at his turnovers and turnover numbers and figures no big deal, since he's not really a PG and being asked to be PointBook?
What is smallball? I play basketball. I'm not a regular big man. I can switch from the center to the guards. The game is evolving. I'd be dominAyton if the WNBA would let me in. - Ayton

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by Shabazz »

Josh's sprain looked pretty bad. It looked like it turned in the opposite direction of a typical ankle sprain and then flipped back and turned the other way. I'd be surprised if he's not out for at least 3 weeks.

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by Cap »

The Bobster wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:21 am
However, Booker himself has the highest turnover rate on the team.
Pretty much middle of the road, if we go by TOV%. Better than Melton, and better than all our PGs except Johnson.

Code: Select all

                                                                                                                                           
Rk                    Age  G   MP  PER  TS% 3PAr   FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV%  USG%  OWS DWS   WS   WS/48  OBPM DBPM   BPM VORP
1         Jawun Evans  22  7   64  0.8 .231 .154  .000  1.7 19.5 10.4 20.1  2.2  0.0 31.6  12.7 -0.2 0.0 -0.2  -0.136 -10.1  0.2  -9.9 -0.1
2      Tyson Chandler  36  7   89 11.6 .653 .000 1.500  8.6 40.7 24.4  9.2  1.1  0.9 26.0  13.0  0.1 0.1  0.2    .095  -5.0  0.1  -4.8 -0.1
3       Emanuel Terry  22  2   20 19.9 .654 .000  .333 10.9 22.7 16.7  8.0  7.2  0.0 22.5  19.0  0.0 0.0  0.1    .130  -1.2  3.0   1.8  0.0
4    DeAnthony Melton  20 42  814 10.0 .457 .392  .081  2.8 12.5  7.6 23.0  3.3  1.8 20.7  15.3 -0.6 0.7  0.1    .005  -3.4  0.9  -2.5 -0.1
5      Jamal Crawford  38 58 1021  9.0 .476 .457  .231  0.9  6.8  3.8 26.7  1.3  0.8 18.4  19.6 -0.8 0.1 -0.7  -0.032  -3.6 -3.9  -7.5 -1.4
6          Elie Okobo  21 44  782  7.0 .469 .445  .168  1.1 10.6  5.8 19.7  1.5  0.5 18.0  17.1 -0.7 0.2 -0.5  -0.034  -4.1 -2.3  -6.4 -0.9
7        Ray Spalding  21  4   30 15.0 .636 .111  .111  3.6 26.4 14.8 10.7  0.0  8.4 17.5  16.4  0.0 0.0  0.0    .067  -4.6  2.1  -2.6  0.0
8       Isaiah Canaan  27 19  503  7.3 .515 .558  .155  1.1  9.9  5.4 17.1  1.1  0.0 17.4  14.2 -0.1 0.0  0.0  -0.004  -2.6 -2.4  -5.1 -0.4
9        Josh Jackson  21 73 1771 10.2 .483 .263  .264  3.8 15.5  9.5 14.2  1.8  2.3 16.6  24.2 -2.8 1.1 -1.7  -0.047  -4.6 -0.5  -5.1 -1.4
10       Devin Booker  22 58 2040 19.0 .573 .332  .359  1.9 11.6  6.6 33.3  1.2  0.5 15.6  32.1  2.3 0.4  2.7    .063   3.0 -2.8   0.2  1.1
11      Ryan Anderson  30 15  278  4.6 .423 .567  .233  5.5 12.6  9.0  8.1  0.5  0.3 15.4  12.1 -0.2 0.0 -0.2  -0.035  -4.4 -2.0  -6.4 -0.3
12      Dragan Bender  21 37  547  7.9 .504 .543  .228  4.6 19.1 11.7  8.8  0.9  1.4 15.2  12.9 -0.1 0.2  0.1    .011  -3.6 -0.9  -4.5 -0.3
13         Quincy Acy  28 10  123  2.9 .379 .833  .556  2.7 20.3 11.3  8.2  0.4  2.7 15.2   9.2 -0.1 0.1  0.0  -0.019  -5.7 -0.2  -5.8 -0.1
14       Trevor Ariza  33 26  884 10.5 .525 .612  .189  2.0 16.5  9.1 13.5  2.1  0.8 13.7  13.8  0.2 0.5  0.7    .038  -1.2  0.4  -0.8  0.3
15      Deandre Ayton  20 67 2068 20.8 .611 .005  .215 11.1 26.1 18.5 10.1  1.3  2.5 11.2  21.1  4.2 1.7  5.9    .138   0.3  0.4   0.7  1.4
16        Kelly Oubre  23 40 1180 16.4 .555 .384  .296  4.4 14.3  9.2  8.8  2.3  2.8 10.7  24.7  0.6 0.9  1.4    .058  -0.3 -0.7  -1.0  0.3
17     Richaun Holmes  25 65 1071 21.1 .656 .000  .483 10.8 20.5 15.6  7.7  1.8  5.8 10.6  17.8  2.9 1.1  4.1    .182   0.1  1.8   1.9  1.1
18      Mikal Bridges  22 73 2088 11.1 .563 .581  .211  2.5 10.0  6.2 10.1  2.7  1.3 10.5  12.1  1.6 1.2  2.9    .066  -0.3  0.6   0.3  1.2
19       Troy Daniels  27 42  548 10.7 .581 .702  .106  1.6  8.7  5.1  6.0  1.8  0.6 10.4  18.1  0.2 0.2  0.4    .034  -0.6 -3.2  -3.8 -0.2
20      Tyler Johnson  26 13  406 12.8 .506 .448  .312  4.0 10.3  7.1 18.7  1.6  1.2  9.0  16.5  0.4 0.1  0.5    .064  -0.3 -1.2  -1.5  0.0
21        T.J. Warren  25 43 1360 16.4 .580 .295  .203  2.5 11.9  7.1  7.8  1.8  1.8  7.2  22.6  1.6 0.6  2.2    .078   0.2 -1.7  -1.5  0.2
22        George King  25  1    6                  1.9  0.0 18.9  9.3  0.0  0.0       0.0   0.0  0.0 0.0  0.0    .002  -8.8 -1.7 -10.5  0.0
23      Eric Moreland  27  1    5                  3.9  0.0 68.0 33.4  0.0  0.0       0.0   0.0  0.0 0.0  0.0    .079 -14.1 -3.8 -18.0  0.0
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 3/22/2019.

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Re: Game Day: Pistons (36-33) @ Suns (17-54), Thurs 3/21/19

Post by The Bobster »

Depends how you're measuring those turnovers - if you're going per minute played, it's it's Booker. if it's per game, it's Booker.

At any rate, Booker needs to dial back the calling out of the teammates and coaches during the game, and needs to stop hanging back complaining about calls.
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