Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:37 pm

Take that many players off a team that's already last in the West and it ain't gonna be pretty these last few games.

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Flagrant Fowl
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Flagrant Fowl » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:05 am

Word on the street is that McHale will be the guy they hire for the front office.

Makes sense that only another MAGA guy would be willing to work with Sarver.
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gosuns
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by gosuns » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:17 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:05 am
Word on the street is that McHale will be the guy they hire for the front office.

Makes sense that only another MAGA guy would be willing to work with Sarver.
I’m from europe and didn’t get the term right away. I had to google it. At first i thought MAGA was an agency.

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Cap
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Cap » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:55 am

And somehow, I’m going to keep rooting for this team anyway. What the f*** is wrong with me?!
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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Indy » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:20 am

Cap wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:55 am
And somehow, I’m going to keep rooting for this team anyway. What the f*** is wrong with me?!
right--i have been asking the same thing about me lately.

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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Xylus » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:53 am

Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:05 am
Word on the street is that McHale will be the guy they hire for the front office.

Makes sense that only another MAGA guy would be willing to work with Sarver.
What do you mean by "another?"

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Indy » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:06 am

Xylus wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:53 am
Flagrant Fowl wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:05 am
Word on the street is that McHale will be the guy they hire for the front office.

Makes sense that only another MAGA guy would be willing to work with Sarver.
What do you mean by "another?"
He is referring to Sarver.

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The Bobster
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by The Bobster » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:09 am

With three games to go for the season -

WORST SUNS COACHING RECORDS
.496 - Jerry Colangelo (59-60) - 2-time interim coach
.474 - Jeff Hornacek (101-112)
.470 - Frank Johnson (63-71)
.429 - Butch van Breda Kolff (3-4)
.395 - Red Kerr (31-89)
.341 - John Wetzel (28-54)
.293 - L*****y H****r (12-29) - interim coach
.280 - Earl Watson (33-85)
.266 - Jay Triano (21-58) - interim coach
.228 - Igor Kokoskov (18-61)

SHORTEST TENURE AS SUNS COACH (excluding interim coaches)
7 games - Butch van Breda Kolff
51 games - T***y P****r
82 games - John Wetzel
118 games - Earl Watson (hired after starting as interim coach)
120 games - Red Kerr
134 games - Frank Johnson (hired after starting as interim coach)
164 games - Cotton Fitzsimmons (left in 1972 after two years, hired back 17 years later)

I am guessing Igor will be back for a second season, but Sarver (like Colangelo) does have a history of pulling the trigger on coaches pretty early in their coaching tenure.
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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Split T » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:26 am

Crazy that L*****y H****r and Earl Watson managed better records than Triano and Igor

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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by In2ition » Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:50 am

Split T wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:26 am
Crazy that L*****y H****r and Earl Watson managed better records than Triano and Igor
They had a better constructed roster and it wasn't quite as young, but of course I understand what you're saying and agree. Igor and Triano were better coaches that both Hunter and Watson.
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Indy » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:18 am

I love that Jerry fired BvBK after just 7 games AND the team was 3-4. That is ballsy. Did they have contract guarantees then?

I too expect Igor to be back, and I am happy with that. I know we would have loved to get a better coach (was Bud the only better candidate out there on the market?), but no way would a top available coach want to work for Sarver.

There was an exchange on Twitter yesterday when Stein started saying the Pels were interviewing several people for their GM job, including Griff. A quick comment back was him saying "ya, I have no idea why the Suns aren't backing a brinks truck up to him and saying please come fix this team that is worse off than any other"

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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by LazarusLong » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:51 am

Butch van Breda Kolff was not a good fit with Colangelo, even though Jerry hired him after VBK's stint with the Lakers.
VBK gained notoriety with his run-ins with Wilt Chamberlain, including benching him in the final quarter in the championship loss to the Celtics.

The word was that Jerry canned Butch because his practices were too casual and lacked structure.
Butch felt that the team was made up of veterans and didn't need to be worn down early.
This was especially true with former Bullets star Gus Johnson, who was in the twilight of his career and had bad knees.

What got VBK in hot water was transitioning control of the team to Charlie Scott, away from Connie Hawkins.
The Hawk was starting to fade, plus he played next-to-no defense.
Hawk was not happy about losing his first-option status, and complained to Colangelo

The team also had lost Paul Silas in the deal to get Scott's rights (he'd playing in the ABA) and that left a hole in the middle.
Neal Walk had his best year scoring and rebounding, but the team still missed Silas' defensive presence.

And VBK was quite a character. After the dapper Fitzsimmons, VBK's manner was a bit jarring.
He was known to have a drink or three, dressed like he pulled his wardrobe out of the dirty clothes hamper, and liked to employ colorfully salty metaphors. He was a bit much for the blue-nosed climate of Phoenix at that time.

For his part, Butch said the Colangelo canned him because he (Jerry) wanted to coach again.
His success with the 69-70 team may have caused to believe he could duplicate the effort.
Given that Fitzsimmons left the first time because of control issues with Colangelo, Butch may have been correct ...
Once upon a time, in what seems an epoch ago, the Phoenix Suns were a respectable NBA franchise ...

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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Split T » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:26 am

In2ition wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:50 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:26 am
Crazy that L*****y H****r and Earl Watson managed better records than Triano and Igor
They had a better constructed roster and it wasn't quite as young, but of course I understand what you're saying and agree. Igor and Triano were better coaches that both Hunter and Watson.
With Hunter, was that the first year we had dragic back? The B*****y year?

And Watson did have Bledsoe and a semi competent knight at times

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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Split T » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:10 pm



Honestly might make more sense to operate as an over the cap team. We’d then have the full MLE which is more than 7.5 million. Depends where the pick lands though. If we’re not top 2 our space moves to 9-10 million and we’d have just over the MLE plus the room exception at 5-6 million.

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The Bobster
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by The Bobster » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:13 pm

ESPN is reporting that Paul Westphal and Sidney Moncrief will be inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame this year -

http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/26 ... -hall-fame

As many of you may know Westphal was my favorite player when I was in high school, and those Westphal/Davis/Adams teams in the late 70's are my favorite Suns teams.
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Superbone » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:56 pm

The Bobster wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:13 pm
ESPN is reporting that Paul Westphal and Sidney Moncrief will be inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame this year -

http://www.espn.co.uk/nba/story/_/id/26 ... -hall-fame

As many of you may know Westphal was my favorite player when I was in high school, and those Westphal/Davis/Adams teams in the late 70's are my favorite Suns teams.
Awesome for Westphal. He was my favorite player too at that age.

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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by O_Gardino » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:46 am

Split T wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:10 pm


Honestly might make more sense to operate as an over the cap team. We’d then have the full MLE which is more than 7.5 million. Depends where the pick lands though. If we’re not top 2 our space moves to 9-10 million and we’d have just over the MLE plus the room exception at 5-6 million.
We might win 20 games and you are talking about operating as an over the cap team.
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Split T
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Split T » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:40 am

O_Gardino wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:46 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:10 pm


Honestly might make more sense to operate as an over the cap team. We’d then have the full MLE which is more than 7.5 million. Depends where the pick lands though. If we’re not top 2 our space moves to 9-10 million and we’d have just over the MLE plus the room exception at 5-6 million.
We might win 20 games and you are talking about operating as an over the cap team.
What does our win total have to do with our cap situation?

It’s simply a matter of numbers...

If we only can make 7 million in cap space, what’s better

Renounce Bender and Daniels, get 7 million in space + room exception at roughly 5 million for max of 2 years and bi annual exception. Or

Retain bird rights of Bender and Daniels, get full MLE(roughly 9 million for max of 4 years) and bi annual exception.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:59 am

Happy for Westphal, but I don't know if I agree with the HoF threshold lately. I heard Vlade Divac is also going to get in. To me that's exactly the sort of guy who shouldn't get in. He was never the 2nd or 3rd best player on a contender. He was a solid center with a memorable personality, and he was a significant player in the NBA. He has also played internationally and worked in a front office. But none of it adds up to the Hall of Fame to me. I wish they would reserve the Hall for the truly great players.

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Re: Suns News: Week 24 3/25-3/31

Post by Ring_Wanted » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:09 am

O_Gardino wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:46 am
Split T wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:10 pm


Honestly might make more sense to operate as an over the cap team. We’d then have the full MLE which is more than 7.5 million. Depends where the pick lands though. If we’re not top 2 our space moves to 9-10 million and we’d have just over the MLE plus the room exception at 5-6 million.
We might win 20 games and you are talking about operating as an over the cap team.
It's more of a possibility than what one might think since cap management has not been great. Assuming you keep the high pick, it comes down to:

[~18M in cap space + Room MLE exception ($4.3M) - Oubre-Holmes ] vs [MLE ($9.1M) + BAE ($3.2M) + Oubre-Holmes]

Obviously you can go a ton of different routes, like dumping Warren/Jackson to create more cap space in scenario 1, and a lot will depend on where we pick in the draft, but basically that's the landscape of our offseason.

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