Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by specialsauce » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:22 am

Superbone wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:51 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Superbone wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:35 pm
He’ll just have to prove you guys wrong next season.
Yeah, hopefully not like he did in summer league again.
I wonder if he’ll play SL. But yeah, he needs to start next season where he left off this one otherwise you guys have a right to give up on him.
Honestly, I’m hoping we use him in a deal to get a PF or a PG. I’ll be disappointed if he’s still on the roster next season. I do hope he is able to improve in the offseason though, whether he comes back here or elsewhere. He has the desire, just don’t think he has the brains.

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:26 am

I don't think it is ever going to work out for Josh Jackson. He has some tantalizing skills and shows flashes. But he's just too out of control, too inconsistent. He needs the ball too much, his shooting is still too shaky, and he plays a position where we have 2-3 other guys I'd rather see get the minutes than him. I think we should package him in a trade this summer.

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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by Split T » Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:44 pm

What’s shaky about 40% from 3 since the all star break?

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specialsauce
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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by specialsauce » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:47 pm

Split T wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:44 pm
What’s shaky about 40% from 3 since the all star break?
That’s a huge misrepresentation of his overall shooting. His shot selection has not improved, I’m sorry. He needs to be shooting 46-48%. His way to a consistent role in this league is to be a low volume shooter focused on other aspects of the game.

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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by INFORMER » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:54 pm

Superbone wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:35 pm
He’ll just have to prove you guys wrong next season.
I'm not saying Josh can't be a good player. I'm just saying he hasn't proven anything yet. I think he has all the talent in the world. He has the ability to be a 2-way player, a playmaker, a high-level scorer. But I think there are two issues that impact his place on this team:

1. Will he maximize his potential and find consistency to be a high level contributor on a winning team?
2. Does he have a place commensurate with his abilities on a team where the best player is a shooting guard and there are 3 other starter-level small forwards on the team?
Free agent targets: Cheick Diallo, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Joakim Noah, Theo Pinson

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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by Superbone » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:57 pm

INFORMER wrote:
Superbone wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:35 pm
He’ll just have to prove you guys wrong next season.
I'm not saying Josh can't be a good player. I'm just saying he hasn't proven anything yet. I think he has all the talent in the world. He has the ability to be a 2-way player, a playmaker, a high-level scorer. But I think there are two issues that impact his place on this team:

1. Will he maximize his potential and find consistency to be a high level contributor on a winning team?
2. Does he have a place commensurate with his abilities on a team where the best player is a shooting guard and there are 3 other starter-level small forwards on the team?
Now see, that’s a balanced take and good questions. Unfortunately, since we are stacked at SF, if he’s going to become a good player, it will be for someone else. If that’s the case, let’s hope we get good value for him that meets the needs of the team.
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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by Split T » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:03 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:47 pm
Split T wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:44 pm
What’s shaky about 40% from 3 since the all star break?
That’s a huge misrepresentation of his overall shooting. His shot selection has not improved, I’m sorry. He needs to be shooting 46-48%. His way to a consistent role in this league is to be a low volume shooter focused on other aspects of the game.

46-48% from 3? I think his shot selection is fine. Outside of a few drives to the hoop where he has no lane and has to just throw up a shot, his shot selection seems a lot better. Probably because he’s making more shots. Most of his 3’s are catch and shoot.

He needs to get stronger so he can finish shots inside. And he needs to prove he can do this when the season still matters. Improved ft shooting and getting to the line more often would be nice as well.

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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by specialsauce » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:13 pm

Split T wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:03 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:47 pm
Split T wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 12:44 pm
What’s shaky about 40% from 3 since the all star break?
That’s a huge misrepresentation of his overall shooting. His shot selection has not improved, I’m sorry. He needs to be shooting 46-48%. His way to a consistent role in this league is to be a low volume shooter focused on other aspects of the game.

46-48% from 3? I think his shot selection is fine. Outside of a few drives to the hoop where he has no lane and has to just throw up a shot, his shot selection seems a lot better. Probably because he’s making more shots. Most of his 3’s are catch and shoot.

He needs to get stronger so he can finish shots inside. And he needs to prove he can do this when the season still matters. Improved ft shooting and getting to the line more often would be nice as well.
No, 46-48 overall.

If you think his shot selection is fine, we’re not watching the same player.

I die a little every time tried a spin around or step back mid range shot, or he goes flying uncontrollably in the lane against smarter teams. Would love to see his stats according to the quality of opponent

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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by Split T » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:18 pm

He shoots 42% from midrange...you think it’s a bad shot, but he’s actually decent at those shots. His biggest weakness is his finishing at the rim. His shooting percentage on layups is 41%...yikes.

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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by specialsauce » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:31 pm

That’s a bad shot. Every analytics team these days discourages that shot. 41% from midrange. He should not be shooting midrangers unless they’re wide open.

By contrast, Booker is elite at midrange, nearly 50% from 10 to 16 ft.

Jackson should be at the rim or open 3. Never, ever think about a step back, a spin around, or any other wild ass shot he thinks he can make. When he forgets his role is when I go wild.

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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by JeremyG » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:57 pm

Split T wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:18 pm
He shoots 42% from midrange...you think it’s a bad shot, but he’s actually decent at those shots. His biggest weakness is his finishing at the rim. His shooting percentage on layups is 41%...yikes.
He bangs his layups off the glass way too hard...usually from some crazy angle.

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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by In2ition » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:03 pm

I think Jones has a good feel for the situation. One of the emphasis this summer is going to on getting stronger. This team overall will benefit greatly from that. Josh especially will finish around the basket at about 10% higher if he only improves that aspect of his game. It will also help him with his defense and rebounding. I'm not even saying he won't continue the path of improving his shot, and I believe that he will do that too.

Like Inf said, he has all the talent in the world, but really needs to figure out what type of player he is going to be and improve his decision making. Having Igor all summer and next year will help too.
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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by Split T » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:36 pm

specialsauce wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:31 pm
That’s a bad shot. Every analytics team these days discourages that shot. 41% from midrange. He should not be shooting midrangers unless they’re wide open.

By contrast, Booker is elite at midrange, nearly 50% from 10 to 16 ft.

Jackson should be at the rim or open 3. Never, ever think about a step back, a spin around, or any other wild ass shot he thinks he can make. When he forgets his role is when I go wild.

He takes on average 2 a game. That’s not a lot...And he shoots at a decent percentage. Hardly a bad shot.

Now if you want to claim all mid range shots are bad shots, then that is fine, but that’s not what you’re doing. You’ve singled out josh Jackson when there are other suns players who shoot more often at worse percentages. Deandre Ayton for example has taken twice as many mid range shots and shoots under 40%...I’ve never heard you call his shot selection bad.

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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by specialsauce » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:53 pm

Split T wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:36 pm
specialsauce wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:31 pm
That’s a bad shot. Every analytics team these days discourages that shot. 41% from midrange. He should not be shooting midrangers unless they’re wide open.

By contrast, Booker is elite at midrange, nearly 50% from 10 to 16 ft.

Jackson should be at the rim or open 3. Never, ever think about a step back, a spin around, or any other wild ass shot he thinks he can make. When he forgets his role is when I go wild.

He takes on average 2 a game. That’s not a lot...And he shoots at a decent percentage. Hardly a bad shot.

Now if you want to claim all mid range shots are bad shots, then that is fine, but that’s not what you’re doing. You’ve singled out josh Jackson when there are other suns players who shoot more often at worse percentages. Deandre Ayton for example has taken twice as many mid range shots and shoots under 40%...I’ve never heard you call his shot selection bad.
If you think Aytons midrange attempts are the equivalent of Joshs on selection quality, you’re doing too much scoreboard watching man. Aytons are open, feet set. Fatigue was a huge factor in his misses IMO. I have no doubt they’ll go in at a higher clip with more experience and improved conditioning. Plus a center’s role is different than a wings, he needs to shoot that midrange shot to draw the big man out.

Josh takes shots off the dribble, often off balanced, often with a man in his face. That percentage is unlikely to rise unless he improves the quality of the shot.

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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by specialsauce » Sun Apr 07, 2019 3:56 pm

Again another contrast, Oubre shot 50% on shots from 10 foot out to 3.

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Re: RE: Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by BlaCkAdDa » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:23 pm


INFORMER wrote:Yeah, we saw this from Josh Jackson last season. It does nothing for me.

Dear Josh,


Sincerely,

INF
He's a second year player let's not get worried about this being a thing

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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by BlaCkAdDa » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:25 pm

I actually see his upside as Joe Johnson

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:02 am

BlaCkAdDa wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:25 pm
I actually see his upside as Joe Johnson
His Levenshtein distance from Joe is low.

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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by carey » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:15 pm

Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:02 am

His Levenshtein distance from Joe is low.
I had to google that one and still don't get it. Math jokes!
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

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Marty [Mori Chu]
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Re: Game Day: Pelicans (32-47) @ Suns (18-61), Fri 4/5/19

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:36 pm

carey wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:15 pm
Marty [Mori Chu] wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:02 am

His Levenshtein distance from Joe is low.
I had to google that one and still don't get it. Math jokes!
It just means, the number of letters you would need to change/add/remove to turn the text "Joe Johnson" into the text "Josh Jackson" is not very high. Nerdy joke.

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