Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Discussion of the league and of our favorite team.
User avatar
Wormwood
Posts: 255
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:30 pm

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by Wormwood » Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:51 am

Superbone wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:19 am
MightyMoog wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:38 pm
The way I see it, McDonough was a glorified scout. He was there to help us draft well while we tanked. He did ok, I thought he got screwed over by Sarver's fascination with Lebron (I think he thought if he had enough of Lebron's peoples he could get a sitdown with him during free agency), I think the bad moves McDonough had all stemmed from that. The Bledsoe contract that was strong-armed on us by Klutch, which led to the stupid AASE contract. Then you had the Watson hiring, which led to drafting Chriss. Overall I give McDonough a B- on his draft record. But now that we're moving on from the drafting period to the team building, I think that's where Jones comes in. I think he made a few pretty solid moves, that helped the team chemistry and added talent. I think he made a few blunders from the technical/business standpoint (waiving chandler/ rivers) I think that's where Bowers should be coming in with experience on how to maneuver contracts and trade positions.
Good post, MM. I’m pretty impressed with what Jones accomplished from what he was given. He inherited Canaan, Chandler, Anderson, and Ariza and turned them into Crawford, Johnson, and Oubre Jr.
Johnson in't a PG, he's not even an above average SG, he's costing us $20M, and cost more than Anderson, whom we would have waived and stretched. He is, effectively right now the biggest obstacle to the Suns building a decent roster. If the Suns want to win next year, Johsnon must be stretched and waived to create pace to sign a player who contributes at the spots we need (PG or PF)

Plan for this summer if I were GM:

1. Draft Zion and

or

1. Draft Ja Morant

or

1. Trade pick for multiple unprotected future picks

2. Waive and stretch Johnson

3. Re-sign Oubre Jr. and Holmes

4. Trade away Jackson and Warren for help at PG or PF (wherever there is greater need)

5. Sign guys who consistently have a high net +/- guys like Tyus Jones or Daniel Theis at PG or PF. Both should be mid-level type players, are in their mid-20s (prime), and have high "intangibles" / high Bball IQ. Think Kurt Thomas / Jared Dudley / Channing Frye types.

Even a line up that looks like: Jones, Booker, Bridges, Theis, Ayton, with Oubre and Holmes off the bench will win 30 games. That's three WAY above average starters on defense (Jones, Bridges, Theis). Four guys comfortable shooting the 3. A PG who is consistently near the top of the league in A/TO ratio, defensive RPM, and has improved every year he's been in the league. The other is a UFA a top end defensive PF who stretches the floor very well and rebounds decently. And this, this is the WORST case scenario if we ditch Johnson and pursue (and get) the right guys in FA.

MightyMoog
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:59 pm

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by MightyMoog » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:52 am

I think this team could easily win 30 games as is if they’re healthy. They would greatly benefit, if they could just work on their shooting. Someone who can attack and shoot at the PG spot would also help a lot. It was just way too easy to double Booker and recover when he passed out last year, mainly because Melton and Okobo couldn’t shoot. That’s why having Tyler helped so much. Once he settled in, he could shoot or drive in quickly.

The major issues I see with this team is redundancy.

Melton and Okobo, we have room for one. That roster spot, needs to go to another Troy Daniels clone, preferably a slightly better defender though.

Oubre, Jackson, Bridges, Warren- one of these has to go. Even though I really like them all.

If we’re gonna play Bender, either he needs to learn to shoot or we need to stop putting him at the 3pt line. Too often we have guys getting the ball in places where they’re not a threat to score.


We’re just not gonna win many ballgames in today’s nba if we’re missing all our wide open looks from 3 and teams like the Rockets and Warriors are making them with our guys draped all over them.

User avatar
carey
Posts: 10765
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by carey » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:45 am

Wormwood wrote:
5. Sign guys who consistently have a high net +/- guys like Tyus Jones or Daniel Theis at PG or PF. Both should be mid-level type players, are in their mid-20s (prime), and have high "intangibles" / high Bball IQ. Think Kurt Thomas / Jared Dudley / Channing Frye types.
Are you Brynn Tannehill? Or did she steal your idea? Saw the same combo of players from a user on Twitter. Jones and Theis.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

User avatar
Marty [Mori Chu]
Posts: 9913
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by Marty [Mori Chu] » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:48 am

Other than shooting, ballhandling, defense, rebounding, toughness, basketball IQ, depth, coaching, and confidence, I think we have a pretty good team.

User avatar
carey
Posts: 10765
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:06 pm
Contact:

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by carey » Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:55 am

Wormwood wrote: Johnson in't a PG, he's not even an above average SG, he's costing us $20M, and cost more than Anderson, whom we would have waived and stretched. He is, effectively right now the biggest obstacle to the Suns building a decent roster. If the Suns want to win next year, Johsnon must be stretched and waived to create pace to sign a player who contributes at the spots we need (PG or PF)
Zero chance Bumpy is stretched. Jones even mentioned he viewed the contract as an asset for next year's deadline.

The Suns were actually fairly good with him at PG because his A:T was excellent and he defended well. He didn't shoot that well but if he returns to his normal self next year he'll be an asset for a team looking to shed salary while still getting a guy that can play.
Go Suns!

Og Snus!

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 4832
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by ShelC » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:36 am

Put him out there this summer in a trade for Conley. Memphis is rebuilding and will want the expiring.

I like Johnson either way tho. Yea he gets killed for his contract and for not being a "traditional PG" but he seemed to fit the offense and make life easier on Booker. If he were making 7mil instead of 20, he'd be a fan favorite I think.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5569
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by In2ition » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:01 am

Wormwood wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:51 am
Superbone wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:19 am
MightyMoog wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:38 pm
The way I see it, McDonough was a glorified scout. He was there to help us draft well while we tanked. He did ok, I thought he got screwed over by Sarver's fascination with Lebron (I think he thought if he had enough of Lebron's peoples he could get a sitdown with him during free agency), I think the bad moves McDonough had all stemmed from that. The Bledsoe contract that was strong-armed on us by Klutch, which led to the stupid AASE contract. Then you had the Watson hiring, which led to drafting Chriss. Overall I give McDonough a B- on his draft record. But now that we're moving on from the drafting period to the team building, I think that's where Jones comes in. I think he made a few pretty solid moves, that helped the team chemistry and added talent. I think he made a few blunders from the technical/business standpoint (waiving chandler/ rivers) I think that's where Bowers should be coming in with experience on how to maneuver contracts and trade positions.
Good post, MM. I’m pretty impressed with what Jones accomplished from what he was given. He inherited Canaan, Chandler, Anderson, and Ariza and turned them into Crawford, Johnson, and Oubre Jr.
Johnson in't a PG, he's not even an above average SG, he's costing us $20M, and cost more than Anderson, whom we would have waived and stretched. He is, effectively right now the biggest obstacle to the Suns building a decent roster. If the Suns want to win next year, Johsnon must be stretched and waived to create pace to sign a player who contributes at the spots we need (PG or PF)

Plan for this summer if I were GM:

1. Draft Zion and

or

1. Draft Ja Morant

or

1. Trade pick for multiple unprotected future picks

2. Waive and stretch Johnson

3. Re-sign Oubre Jr. and Holmes

4. Trade away Jackson and Warren for help at PG or PF (wherever there is greater need)

5. Sign guys who consistently have a high net +/- guys like Tyus Jones or Daniel Theis at PG or PF. Both should be mid-level type players, are in their mid-20s (prime), and have high "intangibles" / high Bball IQ. Think Kurt Thomas / Jared Dudley / Channing Frye types.

Even a line up that looks like: Jones, Booker, Bridges, Theis, Ayton, with Oubre and Holmes off the bench will win 30 games. That's three WAY above average starters on defense (Jones, Bridges, Theis). Four guys comfortable shooting the 3. A PG who is consistently near the top of the league in A/TO ratio, defensive RPM, and has improved every year he's been in the league. The other is a UFA a top end defensive PF who stretches the floor very well and rebounds decently. And this, this is the WORST case scenario if we ditch Johnson and pursue (and get) the right guys in FA.
1. I like the Theis and Jones suggestions.
2. I'm not sure that they need to trade away Jackson, but I'm not totally opposed to it.
3. I don't think they trade the pick unless they can package it for a long term high end player that is an immediate impact.
4. I don't think that Johnson will be stretched. His contract will be either packaged for a player or he may be convinced to opt out of his last year and resigned long term on a more friendly deal. Worst case scenario, they keep him and let the contract expire, since he's a useful player.
5. I'm pretty sure that Warren is going to be moved this summer.
6. If this team was together the whole year and didn't suffer from a rash of injuries, they would have won 30 games, and that's without a decent option at pf, which killed the team in rebound differential.
7. Adding the right talent at pg, pf and the bench will move this team to a competitive level every night and they should play .500 ball all year, imo.
8. I keep Oubre in the starting lineup. The team was better with him in there.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 7713
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by Split T » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:37 am

ShelC wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:36 am
Put him out there this summer in a trade for Conley. Memphis is rebuilding and will want the expiring.

I like Johnson either way tho. Yea he gets killed for his contract and for not being a "traditional PG" but he seemed to fit the offense and make life easier on Booker. If he were making 7mil instead of 20, he'd be a fan favorite I think.
Ya, this is what I keep coming back too...say we don’t land 1 or 2, would Memphis swap Conley/8th pick for 3rd pick/TJ*2?

That gets us our pg, allows us to draft a future pf or pg still and gives us 10ish million to spend on a starting pf. Say we sign Jamychal Green and draft Brandon Clarke.

Conley/Booker/Oubre/Green/Ayton
Melton/Jackson/Bridges/Clarke/Holmes

You could swap Green for Theis or Thad Young...or maybe work a sign and trade where we send Jackson for a bigger contract...like Randle.

User avatar
djy2j
Posts: 1350
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:10 am

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by djy2j » Sat Apr 13, 2019 12:39 pm

carey wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:55 am
Wormwood wrote: Johnson in't a PG, he's not even an above average SG, he's costing us $20M, and cost more than Anderson, whom we would have waived and stretched. He is, effectively right now the biggest obstacle to the Suns building a decent roster. If the Suns want to win next year, Johsnon must be stretched and waived to create pace to sign a player who contributes at the spots we need (PG or PF)
Zero chance Bumpy is stretched. Jones even mentioned he viewed the contract as an asset for next year's deadline.

The Suns were actually fairly good with him at PG because his A:T was excellent and he defended well. He didn't shoot that well but if he returns to his normal self next year he'll be an asset for a team looking to shed salary while still getting a guy that can play.
Chandler and Austin Rivers were deadline assets and he just pissed those away for nothing so although unlikely, I don't think anything is out of reach when it comes to head scratching moves.
The artist formerly known as Y2JJEDIPIMP on .net

"Just like Neal Armstrong I went to space and now I'm back..."

User avatar
INFORMER
Posts: 5095
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by INFORMER » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:15 pm

Wormwood wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:51 am
1. Trade pick for multiple unprotected future picks
I don't think you're getting that for a pick outside the top 2, unless your talking about a non-lottery team making that deal. And if you're dealing with a non-lottery team, those picks have a very low chance of becoming more valuable than the pick you're giving up.
Free agent targets: Cheick Diallo, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Joakim Noah, Theo Pinson

User avatar
INFORMER
Posts: 5095
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:19 pm

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by INFORMER » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:21 pm

Split T wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:37 am
You could swap Green for Theis or Thad Young...or maybe work a sign and trade where we send Jackson for a bigger contract...like Randle.
Thad Young would be a poor move to make. He isn't a significant threat from deep and his rebounding ability isn't good. The Suns could do better in terms of a small ball 4.
Free agent targets: Cheick Diallo, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Joakim Noah, Theo Pinson

User avatar
Shabazz
Posts: 3707
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:16 pm

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by Shabazz » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:49 pm

INFORMER wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:21 pm
Split T wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:37 am
You could swap Green for Theis or Thad Young...or maybe work a sign and trade where we send Jackson for a bigger contract...like Randle.
Thad Young would be a poor move to make. He isn't a significant threat from deep and his rebounding ability isn't good. The Suns could do better in terms of a small ball 4.
Yeah. I don't see the appeal.
Point Guard Needed. Apply here.

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 7713
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by Split T » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:01 am

That’s fine, I wasn’t necessarily clamoring for Thad...just listing some FA 4’s in our price range. Thad is a good defensive player and can hit a corner 3 if left open. His rebounding numbers are meh, but he’s a bigger/stronger body than anything we have at the 4 now. I do think there are better options, but he’s not a bad one.

User avatar
Democritus
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:00 pm
Location: Somewhere in Anatolia

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by Democritus » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:46 am

JJ has an aura like he is entirely sure about his deeds without any hesitation and has all the confidence in his plan. He looks like a relaxed person on a mission.
I certainly like this attitude. It might look stubborn to some people but time will tell.
"We shall leave this world as foolish and as wicked as we found it on our arrival"-Voltaire

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5569
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by In2ition » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:21 am

I actually have a lot of confidence in Jones, even though I don't have a lot of reason to. He's done the things this past year that shows he has an understanding of what the problems are, what needed to change and what still needs to be done. This might be misplaced, but I expect a huge change in the next season in terms of wins and losses, but reserve the right to change my mind after I see the moves made in the off-season.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
Superbone
Posts: 14956
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:44 am
Location: Escondido, CA (Phoenix Native)

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by Superbone » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:00 pm

In2ition wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:21 am
I actually have a lot of confidence in Jones, even though I don't have a lot of reason to. He's done the things this past year that shows he has an understanding of what the problems are, what needed to change and what still needs to be done. This might be misplaced, but I expect a huge change in the next season in terms of wins and losses, but reserve the right to change my mind after I see the moves made in the off-season.
I share your optimism. The most impressive thing to me was that he didn't make a panic move. Still not sure if he could have gotten something back for Chandler (who started with a bang and ended with a fizzle) but I think Bower will help with that kind of move going forward.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

User avatar
Indy
Posts: 8810
Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:21 pm

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by Indy » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:35 am

Split T wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:01 am
That’s fine, I wasn’t necessarily clamoring for Thad...just listing some FA 4’s in our price range. Thad is a good defensive player and can hit a corner 3 if left open. His rebounding numbers are meh, but he’s a bigger/stronger body than anything we have at the 4 now. I do think there are better options, but he’s not a bad one.
Kleber

User avatar
Split T
Posts: 7713
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:51 am
Location: Provo, Utah

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by Split T » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:34 am

The name I’ve seen most being floated on Twitter is Al-Farouq Aminu.

User avatar
In2ition
Posts: 5569
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:35 pm

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by In2ition » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:33 am

Kleber
Vonleh
Theis
Farouq Aminu
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

User avatar
ShelC
Posts: 4832
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:00 am

Re: Suns name James Jones as GM, new hierarchy

Post by ShelC » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:04 am

Sidery mentioned Aminu yesterday as a small ball 4, as he's improved his outside shot. I put him in that same category as Thad Young, tho Thad is a better offensive player. I'd take either if we strike out elsewhere, but neither are the "answer" at PF longterm and probably wouldn't move the needle too much for us next year.

Kleber is a really interesting player and I liked him a lot earlier in the year but expected more of a breakout year from him. His per 36 #s are solid but again, not sure if he's the answer at PF. I think he's better suited as a backup 4/5.

Post Reply