Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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INFORMER
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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Indy wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:48 pm
In2ition wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:40 am
Do you guys remember how upset most Suns fans were when they traded Marbury for essentially nothing but cap space, expiring or short contracts and draft picks? The national media panned Jerry and the Suns for that move too.

The trade of TJ was bad asset management, but really was bad timing. We nearly all came to the realization that TJ and Josh weren't long for the Suns. If they would have waited a little bit, they could have gotten a pick instead of trading one with him. It kind of has the feel of 2004.
Didn't Jerry specifically do that deal to free up committed cap space to help the books and increase his sale price?
The cap space was the main thing, and they wanted to create room for JJ to develop, which he did instantly once Penny and Marbury were gone.
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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Superbone wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:47 pm
According to Jon Bloom on AZSports radio, his sources say the Pistons would have taken Cam Johnson 15th if we hadn't taken him.
I think there is some truth to that. The Pistons are desperate for shooting and haven't had a legitimate small forward for over a year (Stanley Johnson was a colossal bust). So I can see them picking Cam at 15.
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:04 am
Superbone wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:47 pm
According to Jon Bloom on AZSports radio, his sources say the Pistons would have taken Cam Johnson 15th if we hadn't taken him.
I went back through the draft and realized I don’t think it was as big of a reach as initially thought. Sure, we still took him too high and should have traded back, but a lot of the guys drafted around him/after him I would not have been excited about.

Hachimura at 9? I was not a fan
Tyler Herro at 13? No thanks
Romeo Langford at 14? No interest
Langford is one of the few players that I would gladly take Cam Johnson over.

Hachimura has his detractors, but I think he'll be better than Cam.

There are probably 11 players or so taken after Cam Johnson that I think will likely be better than him. 4 or 5 of them I would have chosen for the Suns.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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ShelC wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:11 pm
That's my initial thought...that he was basically let go by Utah and we overpaid for a PG who can't shoot and was "hurting" Utah on offense. Even so, if you're a coach, exec or scout in the league and you saw us running Canaan, Melton, Okobo and Tyler out there at point, how is Rubio not an upgrade in some kind of way?
If you're outside this organization and fanbase, you're not going to grade on a curve. You're not going to proclaim Rubio a good move just because we had garbage last season. If last year is going to set the bar, then just about any move is a good move.
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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ShelC wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:55 am
Again, in terms of comparing the signings, a lot of people around the league scratched their head over our Nash contract. But he was worth that much to us at the time.
Again, no one questioned Nash's basketball ability. He was an All-Star. No one questioned how much he was making a year either. The issue was the duration of the contract. Cuban was very candid about this. Most thought Nash would break down in two years. Everyone underestimated the Suns training staff and Nash's commitment to his health.
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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The Bobster wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:00 am
Harrison Barnes got 4 years, $85 million to return to Sacramento.

How is that not near the top of their list?

Khris Middleton averaged 18 points and 6 rebounds and was given a 5-year, $178 million contract by Milwaukee. That's $35.6 million a year. That's insane.
Yeah, the Barnes deal is terrible.

You won't hear any complaints about Middleton's deal because it will seen as a winning organization doing whatever it takes to keep their star happy and retain their best players. But no, I wouldn't want to be on the hook for that contract.
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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ShelC wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:36 am
Solid move for them. If they can help Dragan get his shot back, he would pair well with Greek Freak.
Trendon Watford. Please and thank you.

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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Wormwood wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:54 am
Survey of 20 coaches, executives, and scouts, rates Suns acquisition as tied for the worst move of the summer.
"Phoenix, meanwhile, was both docked for the three-year, $51 million contract it handed to Rubio, but also for the price it paid -- De'Anthony Melton and two second-round picks -- to dump Josh Jackson's contract to clear the space to sign him in the first place.

"They paid him a lot of money, and he isn't very good," an Eastern Conference scout said. "Maybe it was the best they could do to finally get a point guard, but you're designed for less than mediocrity.""
And it's really just that simple.
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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INFORMER wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:43 pm
Wormwood wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:54 am
Survey of 20 coaches, executives, and scouts, rates Suns acquisition as tied for the worst move of the summer.
"Phoenix, meanwhile, was both docked for the three-year, $51 million contract it handed to Rubio, but also for the price it paid -- De'Anthony Melton and two second-round picks -- to dump Josh Jackson's contract to clear the space to sign him in the first place.

"They paid him a lot of money, and he isn't very good," an Eastern Conference scout said. "Maybe it was the best they could do to finally get a point guard, but you're designed for less than mediocrity.""
And it's really just that simple.
I would actually think it was a good move if we did the same with him as we did with Oubre and do a declining contract for 2 years, even if we paid him 20 this year and 15 the year after. It would have been more money over the 2 years, but would allow us some flexibility and not commit us to 3 years at a significant number. Or even give him 3/55 or something but have year 3 be a team option. I think we could have got him with that.

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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INFORMER wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:28 pm
Split T wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:04 am
Superbone wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:47 pm
According to Jon Bloom on AZSports radio, his sources say the Pistons would have taken Cam Johnson 15th if we hadn't taken him.
I went back through the draft and realized I don’t think it was as big of a reach as initially thought. Sure, we still took him too high and should have traded back, but a lot of the guys drafted around him/after him I would not have been excited about.

Hachimura at 9? I was not a fan
Tyler Herro at 13? No thanks
Romeo Langford at 14? No interest
Langford is one of the few players that I would gladly take Cam Johnson over.

Hachimura has his detractors, but I think he'll be better than Cam.

There are probably 11 players or so taken after Cam Johnson that I think will likely be better than him. 4 or 5 of them I would have chosen for the Suns.
I may just be ignorant on Langford, I didn’t spend a lot of time watching him, but he just doesn’t intrigue me much.

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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Write up on Baynes...

https://on.nba.com/2SGUFhV

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/ ... mer-League
  • Opposing executive on the Suns offseason: “Outside of our own team, the conversation we’ve had most is ‘What is Phoenix doing?’ You have any ideas? It looked like they were clearing cap space, but then they took money on later. I don’t get it. But in the end, they look kind of…good? Maybe that is too strong. Better? Yeah. Better is a good way to put it. They got helpful guys for them.”
  • Suns coach on the new additions: “We needed two things and we got them. We need a veteran point guard who can set guys up and run a system. Ricky Rubio is that guy. I bet Devin (Booker) improves a ton just because Rubio will get him the ball in the right spots and on-time too. We also needed a big to push DeAndre (Ayton) and to do the dirty work. No one better at that than Aron Baynes. And Dario Saric and Frank Kaminsky give us different looks too. I like our options this year.”
  • Opposing coach on playing Phoenix: “The last couple of years you knew you had a win unless (Devin) Booker got hot. They just didn’t have anything else. Now, they sort of have an identity. You have to be on your game now. I think the guy who is being underrated there is Dario Saric. He’s really a great fit next to Ayton. He’s already done that for years next to (Joel) Embiid and (Karl-Anthony) Towns. I bet he’s the best of all the guys they added.”
  • Team executive on the draft: “At our original spot, we didn’t want to bring in another guy who was too similar to Devin (Booker) and Mikal (Bridges). We’re high on those guys. Reading the board, we thought that was going to be who was there. So, we moved back and also picked up Dario (Saric). Did we draft Cameron Johnson too high? No. We didn’t. This guy is ready to play now and will be a great shooter in our league. And then later in the night we added Ty Jerome, who can give us another big guard. Not everyone agrees, and that’s ok, but we think we had a great draft.”
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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Offseason report card:

Phoenix Suns: C

Notable Additions: Aron Baynes; Cameron Johnson; Cheick Diallo; Dario Saric; Frank Kaminsky; Jared Harper; Jalen Lecque; Jevon Carter; Ricky Rubio; Ty Jerome

Notable Exits: De'Anthony Melton; Dragan Bender; Jamal Crawford; Jimmer Fredette; Josh Jackson; Kyle Korver; Ray Spalding; Richaun Holmes; TJ Warren; Troy Daniels

Notable Re-signings: Kelly Oubre Jr.

Phoenix is having two different offseasons depending on who you ask.

Offseason A: The Suns are better! They finally have a point guard who can alleviate Devin Booker's on-ball workload! And more than 1.5 above-average shooters! The Kelly Oubre Jr. deal (two-year, $30 million) is a win for both sides!

Did you know that Dario Saric does more than knock down standalone jumpers?!?! That he dribbles and can pull up and passes more than TJ Warren and everything?!?! Aron Baynes is going to give Deandre Ayton a mean streak! Ty Jerome would've been the Suns' best point guard last season! And they did all of this without overspending or surrendering anything or anyone more valuable than Milwaukee's 2020 first-round pick (top-seven protection)!

Offseason B: Er, did the Suns really cough up too many assets, mismanage their cap and overpay Ricky Rubio just to belch out another sub-25-win season? Why would they opt for the older-than-Devin Cameron Johnson and about-to-get paid Saric over Jarrett Culver?

Did they actually need to give up an asset (No. 32) to get off Warren? Is it possible they should've whipped out a calculator so they didn't have to use De'Anthony Melton and two second-rounders to clear off Josh Jackson and open the space necessary to overpay Rubio and carry Oubre's cap hold?

Both versions of the Suns' offseason have their merits. Others will be harsher in their assessments.

Failing Phoenix because its summer didn't fit the idealistic mold is unfair. The Josh Jackson dump is the only move impossibly hard to defend, and it doesn't break the Suns' future.

They are a better team than they were last year, and it isn't close. They pass—not with flying colors, but they pass all the same.
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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it was so much better when the suns were projected to be last or second to last. at least that was what mcdo thought.

http://www.espn.com/espn/print?id=9893551
How do you pull it off? First, you talk it over with ownership. I analyzed the team and told them what I wanted to do, the guys I wanted to get rid of and the guys with future value whom we wanted to keep. We obviously traded away some of our veteran guys who gave us a better chance of winning right now for future draft picks and young players. The owners didn't want to tread water any more than I did. They'd rather go down to the bottom with the hope of coming up, so they signed off on it. It wasn't a fight at all. In a different season, it might not make sense, but this draft certainly makes it more appealing.

Our coach understands that too. (Hornacek - SDC) It's no secret what we're trying to do, and you can't lie to him anyway or you'll lose all trust. We never really had to tell him, because the handwriting is on the wall. He knows exactly what's going on, and he's good with it. What's hard is keeping it from the players. If you took a poll in all 30 locker rooms, regardless of how the roster looks, I bet they'd all say they are a playoff team. That's good, because you want them to play with effort and lose organically. You never tell the players not to try to win a game, but it's obvious that you're putting out a team that's just not good enough to win.

We're not alone. Look at the 76ers. Since the draft in June, I don't think they've signed a player or made a trade to add a legitimate player. A bunch of us realize that our teams aren't good enough talentwise to do anything. You're going to be bad. There's no way around it. And even if you finish 0-82, there's still a 75 percent chance you don't get the No. 1 pick. We're just going to take our lumps and hope our number gets called.

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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Superbone wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:47 pm


Offseason report card:

Phoenix Suns: C

Notable Additions: Aron Baynes; Cameron Johnson; Cheick Diallo; Dario Saric; Frank Kaminsky; Jared Harper; Jalen Lecque; Jevon Carter; Ricky Rubio; Ty Jerome

Notable Exits: De'Anthony Melton; Dragan Bender; Jamal Crawford; Jimmer Fredette; Josh Jackson; Kyle Korver; Ray Spalding; Richaun Holmes; TJ Warren; Troy Daniels

Notable Re-signings: Kelly Oubre Jr.

Phoenix is having two different offseasons depending on who you ask.

Offseason A: The Suns are better! They finally have a point guard who can alleviate Devin Booker's on-ball workload! And more than 1.5 above-average shooters! The Kelly Oubre Jr. deal (two-year, $30 million) is a win for both sides!

Did you know that Dario Saric does more than knock down standalone jumpers?!?! That he dribbles and can pull up and passes more than TJ Warren and everything?!?! Aron Baynes is going to give Deandre Ayton a mean streak! Ty Jerome would've been the Suns' best point guard last season! And they did all of this without overspending or surrendering anything or anyone more valuable than Milwaukee's 2020 first-round pick (top-seven protection)!

Offseason B: Er, did the Suns really cough up too many assets, mismanage their cap and overpay Ricky Rubio just to belch out another sub-25-win season? Why would they opt for the older-than-Devin Cameron Johnson and about-to-get paid Saric over Jarrett Culver?

Did they actually need to give up an asset (No. 32) to get off Warren? Is it possible they should've whipped out a calculator so they didn't have to use De'Anthony Melton and two second-rounders to clear off Josh Jackson and open the space necessary to overpay Rubio and carry Oubre's cap hold?

Both versions of the Suns' offseason have their merits. Others will be harsher in their assessments.

Failing Phoenix because its summer didn't fit the idealistic mold is unfair. The Josh Jackson dump is the only move impossibly hard to defend, and it doesn't break the Suns' future.

They are a better team than they were last year, and it isn't close. They pass—not with flying colors, but they pass all the same.
this is a pretty fair assessment.

Are the better? Well, it would be a historic achievement if they finished consecutive seasons below 20 wins. Did they do a good job of managing their current and future assets? Of course not. It's like the Facts of Life theme song.

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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I'm curious what the national "experts" said prior to the jump made by previous teams that weren't good and then all of a sudden got much better. What was their pre-season prediction of those teams? Unless a team adds a superstar(s), I am fairly confident that they rarely see the improvement coming so fast and the record changing so drastically.
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