Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by In2ition » Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:33 pm

Decent breakdown. I disagree slightly with the final analysis, but it's whatever. Thinking Basketball is a very good follow.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by ShelC » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:28 pm

This might be the most accurate and reasonable take out there.

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by ShelC » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:48 am

Kinda Suns relevant. I don't subscribe to The Athletic so couldn't read the article...


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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by In2ition » Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:57 am

McDonough strikes again. He started with the same coaching staff as TJ and Devin. I guess they would be further along too? Sounds like someone who is trying to find a scapeGOAT for his shortcomings as an NBA player. Although, in his defense I thought it was a mistake to being in Chandler. It could have stunted his growth. His biggest weakness was his terrible hands though. Is he blaming the Suns for not being able to catch?
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

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ShelC
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by ShelC » Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:04 am

The Tyson signing hurt him, the coaching changes hurt him I think but he also got too big and too top heavy his first year or two. He should have naturally gotten stronger and kept his athleticism instead of bulking up just to bulk up.

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Split T
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Split T » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:27 am

In2ition wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:57 am
McDonough strikes again. He started with the same coaching staff as TJ and Devin. I guess they would be further along too? Sounds like someone who is trying to find a scapeGOAT for his shortcomings as an NBA player. Although, in his defense I thought it was a mistake to being in Chandler. It could have stunted his growth. His biggest weakness was his terrible hands though. Is he blaming the Suns for not being able to catch?
He said the suns told him each summer to go expand his game, he’d come back and they’d just want him to set screens and rebound.

Some of that is probably because the suns didn’t think he improved enough to showcase anything else in his game, but it doesn’t sound like the suns played much of an active role in his development process. The article says he is working out 5 days a week with the hawks development staff this summer. Sounds like he was mostly on his own in Phoenix.

I never liked the Len pick and never thought he was much more than a decent backup, but it does seem that we mishandled him. He shot 41% from 3 after the all star break last year on over 4 attempts per game. We should have developed him into a modern 5 that could space the floor.

We wanted him to be Rudy Gobert, Atlanta is developing him more into a Marc Gasol.

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Superbone
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Superbone » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:09 am

“I did learn how to run around and set good screens and work on my rebounding. That’s really it,” Len said with a laugh.

He doesn’t blame the coaches for his lack of development because he knows the front office put a lot of pressure on the staff to win immediately when the infrastructure just wasn’t in place to be as competitive as the Suns possibly could be. So while the coaches’ plans for Len included expanding his game, he felt like there wasn’t an emphasis on letting players develop because of the pressure to win.

Len’s role in Phoenix was to be a traditional big man — the majority of his buckets would come off screen-and-rolls, putbacks and the occasional midrange shot. What he showed this past season in Atlanta was a version of Len the league hadn’t seen, and he believes if he was drafted into a situation like the Hawks have where player development is the focus, his career would have been in a different place.

“I would have been way ahead of where I’m at right now, like that’s not even crazy to say,” Len said. “I feel like with the two years that I’ve been in Atlanta, I’m already so much better. Just looking at where I was last summer to now, it’s just crazy how much better I’ve gotten. I’m able to do stuff that I’ve never been able to do in my career. I’m doing ballhandling drills, I’m getting shots up. I’m just a better well-rounded player with things I never had the chance to do. I was never asked to do the things I’m doing now when I was in Phoenix.”
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Superbone » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:11 am

Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by JCSunsfan » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:28 am

Wormwood wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:53 am
Let's be honest; pretty much the only people who thought the Suns had a good offseason are Suns fans. Pretty much all the pundits reactions can be summed up as:



Here's my best case / worst case / median case scenarios for the Suns this year.

Best Case: Rubio's passing opens everything up for the team, giving lots of wide open looks to Saric, Oubre, Cam Johnson, Bridges, Kaminsky, Ty Jerome, etc. Jerome and Johnson prove to be dead eye three point shooters, and Bridges improves greatly. When Rubio is off the court, Jerome and Booker split duties, and additional spacing from the PG position makes it even better on offense. Booker takes a step up on defense because he doesn't have to spend all his energy on offense with Rubio there. Ayton is able to string together more really solid defensive stretches using his length, speed, strength, and improved footwork to be an above average defender. Oubre, Bridges, and Rubio are a nightmare lineup on defense for other teams, generating a lot of tipped balls and fast breaks. Everyone improves as hoped for, and they "click" together in a way no one quite saw coming. SUns win almost 50 games, and squeak into the playoffs.

Worst Case: Opposing teams sag off of Rubio, double on Booker or Ayton. Rubio isn't able to capitalize on wide open shots, (i.e. shoots like he did last year), and because of the constant doubling he can't really get the ball to Ayton any better than our PGs did last year. The result is Rubio being only a marginal improvement over Melton. Ayton and Booker don't step up on defense, and Saric / Kaminsky provide neither defense nor rebounding. Oubre slacks off when he's not playing for a contract, and Bridges isn't getting enough open looks to improve his 3 point shot. Johnson and Jerome prove to be absolutely hopeless on defense, and their lack of athleticism means they don't find way to get off shots either. As a result, defense is as bad (or worse) than last year, and the offense turns right back into Booker playing hero ball because Rubio is useless, Ayton is always double teamed, and the other guys aren't hitting enough 3's to clear things out. In short, we're as bad as last year, but maybe even worse without the defensive efforts of Holmes and the offensive efficiency (3 point shooting) of TJ Warren. Suns shut Booker and others down after the all star break, and hope that they can address some of these issues with the draft and $17M in cap space. They end up with 23 wins, and the second worst record in the league again. Suns realize RUbio / Saric / Kaminsky pieces are all bad fits, and they're right back where they started: mostly cap locked, 6th pick in the draft, with guys we can't pay for people to take off our hands.

Median Case: Rubio gets the team a few more open looks, but is mostly dared to shoot the ball (and fails to put it in). Team frequently struggles to move the ball as a result of Rubio being unable to hit the three. Booker improves a little on defense, but not much. Suns defense and rebounding, which starts with our PFs and Cs, remains pretty bad except for when Baynes is on the court (and when he is, the offense really suffers). Ty Jerome sees a little time, but most of it goes to Tyler Johnson, who remains a $20 sub-replacement player, who plays at a mid-tier back up level as he pretty much always has. There are moments when it clicks, moments when it rains threes, but far more where matador defense, bad rebounding and hero ball on offense make you want to murder your TV. Still, it's a noticeable improvement from last year, and we end up right where Vegas thinks we will: 28 wins and last in the west.
Some thoughts.

Teams may be able to sag off of Rubio, but they will not be able to double-team Booker without Rubio making them pay. If they just sag off but do not double-team Booker Rubio can dump off to Booker and Booker can create one-on-one. Rubio will make Ayton an offensive option.

Just an aside. Rubio, for his entire career is 36% for the corner three. So even his outside shooting can be effective.

https://nbasavant.com/player.php?ddlYea ... _id=201937

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Nodack
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Nodack » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:21 pm

ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:48 am
Kinda Suns relevant. I don't subscribe to The Athletic so couldn't read the article...

Len saying he would have been a lot better on another team. I call ass.

I could have been a music legend if I lived in another city. I said it. That doesn’t make it true. It’s all hypothetical so you can make up whatever you want.

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by bajanguy008 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:29 pm

Did anyone watch Team USA scrimmage ?
I just checked a 13min highlights vid and Mikal seemed to get decent run but he was hardly involved in any of the plays I saw
SUNS Fan from the Land of Sun, Sea and Sand ;)

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Indy » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:34 pm

Nodack wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:21 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:48 am
Kinda Suns relevant. I don't subscribe to The Athletic so couldn't read the article...

Len saying he would have been a lot better on another team. I call ass.

I could have been a music legend if I lived in another city. I said it. That doesn’t make it true. It’s all hypothetical so you can make up whatever you want.
You have to admit our development staff has sucked for a long time. He has the best year of his career in ATL, scored over 11 ppg in the same minutes he got here, and shot better than everyone on our team from 3 besides TJ Warren and Daniels.

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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by In2ition » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:59 pm

bajanguy008 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:29 pm
Did anyone watch Team USA scrimmage ?
I just checked a 13min highlights vid and Mikal seemed to get decent run but he was hardly involved in any of the plays I saw
I watched, and you are right. There were multiple times where the right play was to hit him in the corner wide open, but they either didn't see him and took much tougher shots instead or couldn't get it to him.

His defense when they went at him was very good though, so they tried to stay away from him. At least that's how it felt.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by In2ition » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:01 pm

Indy wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:34 pm
Nodack wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:21 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:48 am
Kinda Suns relevant. I don't subscribe to The Athletic so couldn't read the article...

Len saying he would have been a lot better on another team. I call ass.

I could have been a music legend if I lived in another city. I said it. That doesn’t make it true. It’s all hypothetical so you can make up whatever you want.
You have to admit our development staff has sucked for a long time. He has the best year of his career in ATL, scored over 11 ppg in the same minutes he got here, and shot better than everyone on our team from 3 besides TJ Warren and Daniels.
Dave King thought the same thing, but when he delved into the numbers he noted on the Solar Panel podcast this morning that he actually took a dip across the board, besides 3s.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

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Indy
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Indy » Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:58 pm

In2ition wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:01 pm
Indy wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:34 pm
Nodack wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:21 pm
ShelC wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:48 am
Kinda Suns relevant. I don't subscribe to The Athletic so couldn't read the article...

Len saying he would have been a lot better on another team. I call ass.

I could have been a music legend if I lived in another city. I said it. That doesn’t make it true. It’s all hypothetical so you can make up whatever you want.
You have to admit our development staff has sucked for a long time. He has the best year of his career in ATL, scored over 11 ppg in the same minutes he got here, and shot better than everyone on our team from 3 besides TJ Warren and Daniels.
Dave King thought the same thing, but when he delved into the numbers he noted on the Solar Panel podcast this morning that he actually took a dip across the board, besides 3s.
Then I would disagree with Dave. I would rather have a guy give me the stat line Len did last year than the one two years ago.

He stretched the floor a lot for ATL. There are really only a few significant differences. He went from taking 0 3P/G to almost 3/game, his eFG hardly moved as a result, and he scored +2.6/game. The downside was that he couldn't rebound as much because he was away from the rim. He went from 7.5 to 5.5.

Code: Select all

                                                                                                      
Season     Tm  G GS   MP FGA  FG% 3PA  3P% 2PA  2P% eFG% FTA  FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV  PF  PTS
2017-18   PHO 69 13 20.2 5.5 .566 0.0 .333 5.4 .568 .567 3.3 .684 2.5 5.0 7.5 1.2 0.4 0.9 1.1 2.3  8.5
2018-19   ATL 77 31 20.1 8.4 .494 2.6 .363 5.8 .554 .551 2.8 .648 2.1 3.5 5.5 1.1 0.4 0.9 1.3 2.6 11.1
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 8/10/2019.

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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by In2ition » Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:31 pm

FGA, TOV, PF, PTS went up, FG%, 2P%, eFG%, FTA, FT%, ORB, DRB, TRB, & AST went down. I don't think Dave was wrong.
"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

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bajanguy008
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by bajanguy008 » Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:41 pm

In2ition wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:59 pm
bajanguy008 wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:29 pm
Did anyone watch Team USA scrimmage ?
I just checked a 13min highlights vid and Mikal seemed to get decent run but he was hardly involved in any of the plays I saw
I watched, and you are right. There were multiple times where the right play was to hit him in the corner wide open, but they either didn't see him and took much tougher shots instead or couldn't get it to him.

His defense when they went at him was very good though, so they tried to stay away from him. At least that's how it felt.
Ok Understood
Thanks
SUNS Fan from the Land of Sun, Sea and Sand ;)

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In2ition
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by In2ition » Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:57 pm

"Our Suns are DEAD!!!"
Nate Duncan / Morten Jensen
Ben Goliver / Jake Madison
Bryan Toporek / John Karalis
Danny Leroux / Jonathan Feigen
Howard Beck / Dan Devine
Dan Favale / Andy Bailey
Coach Nick / Jared Weiss
Marc Jiang / David Aldridge

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Cap
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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Cap » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:07 pm

Does “draft schedule” mean “subject to change”?
JJ will be better than KP when all is said and done [in 2020]. Mark it. — AIG, with Indy betting against

My [2019-20] prediction is better than mid 30s... mark it down! — Superbone

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Re: Suns News: 2019 Off-Season

Post by Superbone » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:49 pm

Cool. One national TV game. Against Zion and New Orleans.
Wormwood/Superbone 2019/2020 season bet: Suns win < 30 games, Wormwood wins, else 'Bone wins. 1 month avatar shame starting July 1st of winner's choosing.

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